Fool's Claws: What to look for.

HappyAssassin

Diabloii.Net Member
Fool's Claws: What to look for.

Okay, this isn't aimed at anyone in particular, but these forums seem to have 1000 posts of "is this claw good" showing every rare fool's mod claw that's dropped in the previous day. I figure we should have a post that covers what is actually good on a Fool's claw.

A little background. Fool's claws are primarily used by assassins who use Whirlwind. They must be the primary claw (either glove side after a weapon switch or equipped first) for their AR bonus to work. There are two types of "ideal" Fool's claw, one for a WW/Traps hybrid, one for a Ghost or Bramblesin that does not use traps.

There can be 3 prefixes and 3 suffixes on a claw. This means that there can never be (unfortunately) a claw with Fools, +2 Sin, Damage and 2 Sockets. Below are listed (in my opinion) the best combos of stats for each build. If a claw comes close to these, it is good. If it is considerably less good than the listed claws, a Fury is a better option 99% of the time.

Keep in mind that staff mods do not count towards prefixes and suffixes.


WW/Traps:
Witch Hunter's (+2 Sin (or +2 Traps, obviously this is less useful than +Sin))
Fool's
Mechanic's (2 Sockets)
Of Quickness (40IAS)
+3 LS Staff Mod
Runic, Greater Talon, Feral or Greater Claws base type.

Ghost:
Cruel (%ED)
Fool's
Mechanic's (2 Sockets)
Of Quickness (40IAS)
Of Self Repair
+3 Venom Staff Mod
+3 Mind Blast Mod
Ethereal Runic, Greater Talon, Feral or Greater Claws base type.

Notes:

Additional staff mods help out, but a Fools claw is likely to be switched out for other claws. For this reason, bonuses to Venom, Mind Blast, Shadow Master or Weapon Block are better than skill savers like Blade Shield or Dragon Flight.

+Venom is still useful on a WW/Trapsin, I don't list it because if the claw doesn't have LS it's not so good, whereas if it doesn't have Venom it's still fine. A claw with +2Sin and +Venom is a fine ghost claw, but not as good as a good Cruel %ED claw.

Knockback can be a useful mod on a Fools claw, but only for a vs. Melee setup. Knockback can knock a caster right out of your triwhirl, ruining your chance for a one catch kill. It's a useful mod (of the Bear), but not vital and it can even be a problem.

A claw with a base speed of 0 must have 14+ IAS to hit the last WW breakpoint for hit checks. Any less diminishes the value of the claw because it needs a speed socket, which robs it of the Um runes that would otherwise be socketed in it.

Examples:

I find a claw with the following mods:

248% ED
40IAS
Fools
+2 Mind Blast
1 Socket (Larzuk)
Feral Claws

Is this good? Yes, it is good enough to be worth using / keeping, even though it doesn't have the +Venom Staff mod and the ED is a little low.

I find another claw with the following mods:

+2 Traps
20 IAS
Fools
+2 LS
+3 Blades of Ice
1 Socket (Larzuk)
Suwayyah

Is this good? No, there is too little IAS and the base type is too slow. It's possibly worth keeping to trade, but it's not worth much.

I find another claw with the following mods:

+2 Sin
30IAS
Fools
+2 Dragon Flight
1 Socket (Larzuk)
Runic Talons

Is this good? Yes, it has useful mods and is a fast claw. Remember to check your claw speeds on the calculator. Most enigma based assassins use a Runic or Greater Talon Chaos and a 15IAS jewel in their helm. This 30IAS claw will still reach the 42IAS needed for trap laying with that 15IAS jewel.

I find another claw with the following mods:

40IAS
Fools
+3 Pheonix Strike
+1 Dragon Flight
1 Socket
War Fist

Is this good? No, it's not, and it's more or less worthless. Just because a claw has Fools doesn't make it a keeper.

I shop a claw with the following mods:

40IAS
Fools
2 Sockets (Larzuk)

Is this good? Yes and no, it's a pretty weak claw but it does give the speed and AR bonus needed. A Fury is better most of the time. Such a claw is not worth anything, but can be useful until you find a better one.

I find a claw with the following mods:

+2 Traps
40IAS
Fools
+3 LS
+2 Mind Blast
2 Sockets

Is this good? Yes it's incredibly good, it may not have + 2Sin or be Eth - Self Repair, but a claw like this will either turn a huge profit trading or contribute to a very well equipped hybrid sin. I include this to point out that while the ideal claws listed at the top will only exist in one or two cases (or as d2pk imports), claws almost as good as them are very exceptional and rare in their own right.
 

HappyAssassin

Diabloii.Net Member
The point is that Fury is better than that base claw in 99% of situations, even against high def targets, simply because if you hit them, fury has plenty of mods that help, whereas a 40/fools/2soc has vitually nothing to offer once the hit is made.
 

ultrabadbob

Diabloii.Net Member
my guess would be that most people just use a giantskull for kb, but u raise a good point. it certainly would be nice if you could keep your circlet on and still have enough ar to hit high def chars AND knockback.
 

HappyAssassin

Diabloii.Net Member
Knockback is a nice mod to have, but Gskull just trumps it in everyway. BOTH claws get kb (to quote speederlander, godfather of ghost builds) which is much more useful that only one of em. Still, it should probobly be in there for Ghosts and Bramblesins, I forgot to add it because frankly I never use it.
 

mephiztophelez

Diabloii.Net Member
it certainly would be nice if you could keep your circlet on and still have enough ar to hit high def chars AND knockback.
my 'sins 'base' ww-ar in 'standard' kit is 14,768, if i go for my 'lets be a complete idiot about AR getup', i'm at 27,525 (and only 60%fcr:cry:) (please note: these numbers were obtained using ppr's AR calc NOT the LCS)

i win a decent'ish number of duels against high-def melee types in that setup too. (fyi: fools claw, angelics and a 104ar/visionary/20fcr/27str circlet along with other standard gear like a ravenfrost etc)

good barbs and e-bug-glitched-dupewhore-tele-smiters are still a PITA though.......

dang i wish that visionary circlet had +2'sin'skills.....


now, back on topic: imho you want open wounds before knockback on your claw (eg: um your fools claw rather than nef it). but if you can swing both, your doing VERY well.



 

shopbot

Diabloii.Net Member
knockback is supplied with a high lvl mindblast

i still think fools is better cos sins is all about hit and run. the ar boost is really good especially when enchanted.

so if you want ar go for fools

or if you want deadly strike go for fury
 

Eilo Rytyj

Diabloii.Net Member
Sure, KB is "supplied" with Mindblast, but the ability to put opponents in FHR animation via KB with your main damaging skill is very valuable as well, and could may well win you the fight.
 

HappyAssassin

Diabloii.Net Member
It will work less than that, because KB doesn't work all the time. As for KB on MB, it's not a replacement, you are stationary and casting when you KB someone with MB, which means that a smiter can hit you. KB makes a walking smiter chasing your ww away move back, which means he must move forward to hit you. It's really a moot point against good smiters anyway, they charge too much and get under you with desync.
 

PrkChopXpress

Diabloii.Net Member
I think I already know the answer, but I just need to hear it from someone else.

Last night I was shopping for +3 Shadow Disc. prebuff claws when I came across a +3LS/+3WoI/+2BF (and I think it had some ED or maybe some max dmg or something like that, too). The problem was that it was a Scissors Quhab. I was right to just leave them, right?

BTW, this may be useful as a sticky since it seems there are a couple "Is this claw worth anything" question every day.
 

CaptnSparrow

Diabloii.Net Member
I think I already know the answer, but I just need to hear it from someone else.

Last night I was shopping for +3 Shadow Disc. prebuff claws when I came across a +3LS/+3WoI/+2BF (and I think it had some ED or maybe some max dmg or something like that, too). The problem was that it was a Scissors Quhab. I was right to just leave them, right?

BTW, this may be useful as a sticky since it seems there are a couple "Is this claw worth anything" question every day.
Even if the claw was a Greater Talon it would barely be worth anything.


The only real useful thing is the +3 LS, which is a fairly common thing to see. So yes, you were right to not purchase it.



 

Da warrior

Diabloii.Net Member
i have a claw, but i don't play sin and it doesn't really fit a ww/trap sin or a ghost sin
its a fools, 40ias, 127atr,7str, 11cr, prevent monster healing, +2 cobrat strike
greater talons.
i don't see much value in this claw... any reason to keep?
 

aiwa

Diabloii.Net Member
i found a set that had +3 shadow and +1 venom.they only costed 650,000 gold....i only had 350,000 gold.:hanky:
 

PrkChopXpress

Diabloii.Net Member
i found a set that had +3 shadow and +1 venom.they only costed 650,000 gold....i only had 350,000 gold.:hanky:
Well that's some handy information. I've been trying to shop for some +3 Shadow claws, but I've only been carrying around 500k gold. I'm kinda glad I haven't seen them yet, cause having to leave them would make be cry, too.


 
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