FOH= best pvper????
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luke the duke
Diabloii.Net Member
lol...i was ignored so i stated it again...and don't say im spamming...cuz i like how you pick me out...wen this thread is totally off topic...the guy who started it isnt even talking or getting his answers...its all bout some doods stats...lol.....but w/e keep picking on me dont mean nttn to me
redtan
Diabloii.Net Member
And all this talk about 3 tri whirls to kill a paladin. My my how quickly you forget that just as you can swap to your kiras, tri res boots etc, one can put on a coa, dracs, dungos, fort, exile, grief, raven and angelics and become a melee char.
So I would like to see how you kill a 3.8k life, 50%DR, 75% block, 30K+ defense char in "3 tri whirls" (especially when using heavy stack/sorb gear)
So you're not the only ones that can heavily negate another's damage.
So I would like to see how you kill a 3.8k life, 50%DR, 75% block, 30K+ defense char in "3 tri whirls" (especially when using heavy stack/sorb gear)
So you're not the only ones that can heavily negate another's damage.
If you were to wear those items, your foh damage would drop to a mere 4000, making it 62 even with a plain TGod's.
Where the **** did I ever mention 3 triwhirls? What are you smoking, man? I've only said stuff about a few good triwhirls. Few =/= 3, fool.
And sorry, your setup only equals at best 46% PDR. 31 + 15.
Again, your foh would now do 62 damage with a plain freaking TGod's. And no, the "heavy stack" can be as much as plain charms and pubgear. You see, using 4* 5/11's with 11* 20/11's nets you 383 LR with pubgear. Now, with -150 from your Conviction, that makes the barbarian's resistances to 133% in hell, as in 85%. Now, slap on a bit of Fortitude for 90% LR and your damage is a mere 28 per foh.
Sorry, I am. You see, any elemental damage can be reduced up to 0.51% of it's on-screen damage whereas any physical damage can only be reduced to 8.5% of it's original. Considering that at this point, the physical is much greater than the elemental, you are in trouble.
Oh, and with your all-Smiter setup, you are still only doing (at best) 4328 damage, meaning ~507 per hit. And your Foh is still as good as crap. Oh, but how about Fading? That would cut your Smite to a mere 397 per hit and your FoH is still crap. See? 1-point Smite on a FoHer won't cut it versus a good BvC.
Not to mention that surely as hell you won't have 30 000 defense with a base lvl 9 Defiance at best at lvl 99. Ain't going to happen.
redtan
Diabloii.Net Member
You need to relax, I don't get why you're getting all mad and everything and see the need for that kind of language. NOT ONCE did I say you said 3 tri whirls.There are other people on this forum that are allowed to post in this very thread. Have you ever thought that someone else might have said that and that's what I quoted...? The discussion is between many people, not just me and you. If you even for once think that this discussion is only about you and what you said, you should think for two or so seconds and realize it's not.
Well considering one can have 20k defense with maxed holy shield and some defiance, I don't see how it's hard to get to 30k+ with a fort, ebugged eth exile and the defiance aura on.
I know that a 1 point smiter doesn't stand a chance against a good BvC, I never said that.
But right now we're talking about your crappy welfare BvC, not good BvCs.
Uncle_Mike
D2 PvP Moderator
This thread is on topic as long as foh dmg and viability are being discussed. I can live with it turning into a foh vs bvc as long as I consider the discussion civil and this one barely qualifies.
@ Everyone - from the pvp forum rules (the bolded parts in particular):
2. DO NOT FLAME OR TROLL - If you strongly disagree with someone, frame your response in reasonable way. Flaming will not be tolerated in any form, a post does not need to be profane to be a flame. There is a handy "report post" feature on the forum, use it whenever needed in cases of flaming, trolling or offensive language.
3. Please keep your posts on topic. Also please do not hijack people's threads with questions that do not pertain to that particular discussion.
@Ce Olba - I hate to repeat myself and I am honestly running out of patience so think twice before you hit the submit button next time.
fort lol big mistake this already asks me these questions;
i dont see how u can beat any decent barb without being able to tele smite plus ur dmg is even lower, i.e heres my setup as i have. I have come across situations like these...
CoA Berber
enigma/ forti
res boots (realms 49 lr)
ring 63 lr
inventry 60 + before i had 120+ lr before i got ring
hlord ofc ul prolly argue ar but if so angelics
As u can see i have enough dr while at the same time stacking arround 180 lr vs the setup u posted lossing virtually no mobility dmg etc...
And best of all i still have fade as an option giving 65 + all res and 15% pdr from treachery prebuff.. so i can effectively have max dr or high lvls of dr while still keeping gear flexabilty.
Bottom line is no one point smite is going to take care of a decent barb. The only person i know who can rip barbs with 1 point smite is goldwrap but then he is just godly skilled and even then vs a good barb he still loses.
redtan
Diabloii.Net Member
I never once stated that, I know my limits of who I can and cannot beat. I just simply said what I can/would do to help my situation when faced with a heavy stacker.
Then I just got ripped on by the godly ce olba about how crappy the character is.
So I agree with you about the chances of a 1 point smite foher vs a good bvc, but I just wanted to say my opinions regarding the gear/strategy response of said foher. I hope there is nothing wrong with that...so I don't see why this guy had to come out like this.
No, I'm far from angry, I'm just amazed at the fact that you are trying to have a multi-person conversation without directing your attention separately and specifically to one individual at a time.
Are you now referring to the Defiance of Exile or your own? As your own defiance wil always be lower than that of Exile I see no point.
Again, nowhere did I interpret that I was the one doing the battling. No, my BvC does not have 11*20/11's and the like, but a good BvC would.
It matters not whether an extremely well-prepared Foher, which by the way is like one in a 1000, would beat my BvC or not. What matters is whether such a foher had a chance versus properly geared and played BvC.
Just because I said that I would use this or that rather that these or those does not mean the whole discussion has to be based on my own character. If you thought so for more than a couple of second, I'm worried.
@Mike: Do you really need to make such a fuss over something that the automatic censor already took care of? It's obvious there was something wrong, but picking a huge deal out of it just because it happens to be me whose post it is does not justify you starting to go all Moddiemod over the topic. Seriously, if you even consider any of the censored words to be "offensive speech", you have a huge problem. Even if it's considered offensive by some people, that does not mean you can't have a little bit of individuality with it. The forum itself does not exactly look too family-friendly if you look at some of the topics in the OT forum, so why try to do the impossible here? For a good referance, check out the topic Stompwompa made in the OTF about a televisioned F-word-issue. That strike a chord or?
Uncle_Mike
D2 PvP Moderator
:thumbsdown:
from now on any OT post in this thread, or any post that has OT in it will be deleted, just a heads up.
Ce Olba - you were asked repeatedly to use PMs - does that strike a chord?
No more OT here
from now on any OT post in this thread, or any post that has OT in it will be deleted, just a heads up.
Ce Olba - you were asked repeatedly to use PMs - does that strike a chord?
No more OT here
kohlman
Diabloii.Net Member
With all this jib-jab about wearing this to negate that and numbers and such. The topic us asking about the FoHer pally as a good or possible the best PvPer. i dont think it is THE best, but it is a good one, especially if its a t/v or a v/t.
That said, many characters can beat many other characters they normally would not be able to if the other char was wearing the wrong gear or if the attacker was specifically built to beat another character. This nonsense about negating one attack but expecting the other to not negate it will go on and on forever because in real pubs, it will go on and on or someonewill simply get another character suited for killing the other.
A smiter and barb will always be a duel depending on skill. With good triwhirls at the end of the range of the smiter will usually end up in the smiter losing no matter the defense or autohit of smite. Too many hitchecks for ww. The barb must either go dr route or lr route. It is hard to go both at the same time but it is possible and it will negate most damage the other will deal out. The great thing about pallys (fohers, hdins, smiters, chargers, whatever) is that in order for them to have holy shield, which most paladins do have, they must have a point in smite. Smite is a great 1 point wonder. We all know about it and its nothing new.
A FoHer is a great char for running pubs especially when they have the smite for backup with the right gear. They will run into well prepared barbs but not that often since people dont usually have fohers. Most pubs carry the zon, the hdin, smiter, ww barb, trapper, windy, and the fb sorc. Other than that you will find a diff char one in every 5 games or so. When I am playing my FoHer and a windy comes in, I dont even bother hostiling simply because their minion stack (which i seem to get lucky against) and cyclone armor makes them much more powerful against me. If i face a barb that takes more than 15 foh's in the face and his life is just below half, i leave him be. Other than windy's and barbs, the FoHer has a great chance to beat most chars.
That said, many characters can beat many other characters they normally would not be able to if the other char was wearing the wrong gear or if the attacker was specifically built to beat another character. This nonsense about negating one attack but expecting the other to not negate it will go on and on forever because in real pubs, it will go on and on or someonewill simply get another character suited for killing the other.
A smiter and barb will always be a duel depending on skill. With good triwhirls at the end of the range of the smiter will usually end up in the smiter losing no matter the defense or autohit of smite. Too many hitchecks for ww. The barb must either go dr route or lr route. It is hard to go both at the same time but it is possible and it will negate most damage the other will deal out. The great thing about pallys (fohers, hdins, smiters, chargers, whatever) is that in order for them to have holy shield, which most paladins do have, they must have a point in smite. Smite is a great 1 point wonder. We all know about it and its nothing new.
A FoHer is a great char for running pubs especially when they have the smite for backup with the right gear. They will run into well prepared barbs but not that often since people dont usually have fohers. Most pubs carry the zon, the hdin, smiter, ww barb, trapper, windy, and the fb sorc. Other than that you will find a diff char one in every 5 games or so. When I am playing my FoHer and a windy comes in, I dont even bother hostiling simply because their minion stack (which i seem to get lucky against) and cyclone armor makes them much more powerful against me. If i face a barb that takes more than 15 foh's in the face and his life is just below half, i leave him be. Other than windy's and barbs, the FoHer has a great chance to beat most chars.
luke the duke
Diabloii.Net Member
if you are dueling gm...then fohers are easy pks <--- that was on topic =)
mainaman
Diabloii.Net Member
a smiter that allowes to be 3 whired is a bad smiter
foher cant even begin to dream of damaging any decently built es sorc.
pure fohers are really annouyng , and very useless chars to play.
V/t, mage are the best foh based pally builds imo
I actually enjoyed them before conviction was nerfed. They were like today's blizz sorcs, but much more survivable and with foh arguably a better skill than blizz, with emphasis on arguable. I reckon if conviction was not nerfed and foh was like in 1.01, foh pallys would be the 1.11 version of the buriza-zon.
That said, these days foh pallys seem to really whine a lot if you use any form of stack against them, which is irritating. Not all, but a lot I see in pubs do just that.
Quoted for truth.
mephiztophelez
Diabloii.Net Member
i thought the Hammerdin was the 1.11 buri'zon?
if you can stack out the conviction aura, you don't really need sorb to beat a FoH'er.
my charge/smite pally has a rather impressive amount of resis-stack gear at his disposal. simply switching from a HoZ to a Sanctuary shield is enough to take care of most pubby foh'ers.
the reason i dont like fohers as a pure build is beacuse like said they cry when anyone who has a bit of common sense uses some stack then say something like "LOL ABS". I mean where is the skill to foh they charge arround and expect someone to get 1-2 hit killed by an attack that auto hits etc then moan when this does not happen.
Just like an auradin there is no real skill involved or needed for this build but hold down charge and w8 for the "slain message" to appear.
I mean it different if foh is based on a build i.e a hybrid like mage or v/t atleast these builds require elements of skill so when foh is nerfed u have a strong viable backup or use foh to stun or destract etc..
Just like an auradin there is no real skill involved or needed for this build but hold down charge and w8 for the "slain message" to appear.
I mean it different if foh is based on a build i.e a hybrid like mage or v/t atleast these builds require elements of skill so when foh is nerfed u have a strong viable backup or use foh to stun or destract etc..