FOH= best pvper????

[Moritz]

Yeah Ce Olba, that's good strategy. Thing is that even pure Fohers have at least 1 point in smite charge and might or even fanaticism (I know I do).

With all your light stack and 2x wizzies, you will be easy prey to a charge/smite job, even with 20ish level skills and a foh scepter. Meanwhile you wont be touching a 20k defense + 75% block + 30%DR pally with ur puny 1 range wizzies.

you could use grief/beat in one slot and wiz*2 in second slot.

 

[nex]

Yes, I barely hit them with whirlwind, but that's where Widowmaker comes to play: 551 damage over 8 seconds that cannot be reduced and it can only be blocked.

Wow, clvl 155 barb. Impressive :tongue:

 

[Ce Olba]

Wow, clvl 155 barb. Impressive :tongue:

Excuse me? As far as I know, the OW formula for the higher levels was

[(45*Clvl)-1319]/256 = dmg/frame, so
[(45*Clvl)-1319]/256*25 = dmg/second, and finally:
[(45*Clvl)-1319]/256*25*8 = total damage

Now, insert 92 as Clvl:
[(45*92)-1319]/256*25*8=2203.90624

Now, since the PvP penalty is 25%, that is cut down to 550.97656. What part of that seems like lvl155 to you?

Yeah Ce Olba, that's good strategy. Thing is that even pure Fohers have at least 1 point in smite charge and might or even fanaticism (I know I do).

With all your light stack and 2x wizzies, you will be easy prey to a charge/smite job, even with 20ish level skills and a foh scepter. Meanwhile you wont be touching a 20k defense + 75% block + 30%DR pally with ur puny 1 range wizzies.

Let's see: please re-read that paragraph I wrote. I clearly said the only stack would be 2 wizzies. You see, they add a total of 150 all resistances. Indeed, there is a single flaw in that plan: Fohers with foh scep and/or Griffon. Again, that is not the setup I am even using at the moment as the setup I use right now is ... good.

You see, with the setup I use, it does not matter whether you use your puny little Smite with your Foh Scep or even Grief, as the only two differences between my most damaging setup and that one setup are armor and helm. And as I already pointed out, you would need to have a 4 facet armor and a 4 facet helm along with a perfect griffon and a 25/25/3foh scep to do 10 000 damage. At that, the best PDR% you can pull off is 15%.

And I don't see 20k defense happening with a 500 defense armor and a 150 defense shield. Now, if you don't have those two, the best damage you can pull off while retaining a decent PDR would be ~6285. Now, with 85% LR, that would be 120 damage per foh with your PDR% standing at 23%. If you wanted 31%, your damage would drop to 6033.6, meaning 114 damage per foh. Again, that is not much of a threat. Oh, and this still accounts for that Grief you will be needing if you plan to smite anyone. If you wouldn't be using that, your damage would now be 146 damage per foh.

Oh, and since my BvC is quite welfare, that enough is quite a lot of trouble. You see, if I had 2* Viper Eyes, I could easily use Fortitude as my armor, meaning I would gain 300% ED and 90% LR. That would make even 10 000 damage into a mere 45 per foh. At this point, whether I do any damage or not does not matter, it will still take you ~137 fohs to kill me.

You see, the problem with foh is the one-sided damage. Once someone negates that, you are left with little offense, such as that wannabe-smite thought of yours. Wanna try smiting anyone without a grief? Wanna try fohing anyone with a Grief while retaining 30% PDR, 20 000 defense and decent foh damage?

 

[Moritz]

ranged attacks get extra malus for OW.


Apart from that, OW formula has been changed in 1.11b. Check this topic:
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=567214

 

[SicHalo]

if u cant seem to find a way to stack enough on ur barb, try a silence zerker. 75 to res all on a wep slot is ggz and, its dmg isnt terribly horrible, just a little bit horrible.

crap idea u miss the fastest ww bp due to it only reaching 30 ias + i tried this i found the dmg was a joke 2k max i think + the fact im missing the fastest frame for ww bp?


the light res ba is another good idea, i never recomend shield use as u lose a second hand dmg etc.

like stated u have things like ort kira+ res boots stack some from inventry, fade precasted from treachery even a rare ring giving ar+ lr

btw i did not mean it like that when i said "even ww/trappers" can do it. The fact is a foh can kill me also in 1/2 hits but it never happens like that becasue of mb spamm + wof and constant trap hitting making it ridiculously hard to foh etc.


btw on my barb now i use 1 viper eye ring and taken out some of those 20/11 light stack charms.

@ Ce Olba the fohers using 25/25 shield griffon + armour these are the easiest of all fohers.

Sure they pump out more dmg due to more - res etc but this means nothing when at best u have 15-20% pdr 20%pdr if using bb. What is this going to do when ur hit by a bvc using grief in a tri-whirl.

These types of foh get ripped up in 1-2 tri-whirls..

 

[redtan]

Ce Olba, u don't seem to understand, that with a grief, even a 1 point smite/fana deals up to 800 pvp damage.

So if you're a godly 8k life barb, it takes 10 shots to kill you. I wonder what's gonna act first, 500 damage over 8 seconds from a range 1 attack that can be blocked and has to go thru 20k defense, or a simple auto hit range 3 smite that does 800 damage instantly.

And with a grief, the foh damage is around 6.5k at -175 resistances.

It's funny that you seem to say that a 1 sided attacker is stupid and can easily be negated, but you gotta remember that you're not the only one that gets to go to the stash and put on backup gear. So if you prepare for a lightning damage with hardcore sorb and resistances, I can prepare for that and put on the melee gear.

 

[SicHalo]

Ce Olba, u don't seem to understand, that with a grief, even a 1 point smite/fana deals up to 800 pvp damage.

So if you're a godly 8k life barb, it takes 10 shots to kill you. I wonder what's gonna act first, 500 damage over 8 seconds from a range 1 attack that can be blocked and has to go thru 20k defense, or a simple auto hit range 3 smite that does 800 damage instantly.

And with a grief, the foh damage is around 6.5k, with foh scepter it's around 8.6k with 31%DR.

thats where ur wrong ga ignore defense so its only block to factor secondly even with this switch idea unless u know how to smite vs a barb ur still doomed.

The way u make it sound is as if the barb is standing still fireing gas while u smite him...

stats mean jack crap unless u have the skill on how to use these stats to their potential.

The way this works is ur foh is completly negated cuz if its negated to piddly dmg at 9-10k then at 6.5k it useless.

This means ur left with the 1 point smite, now usally with res gear the barb has very little dr which can tip in ur favour depending ofc realm etc or items.

But like i said a skilled barb can beat a smiter with virtually no dr...

Also another thing if u used a range 3 grief vs me u are then opened to be abused by holy freeze from doom again turning ur smite into mush. The only chance is to use pb to keep smite speed u lose the 1 range but like i said if u know how to smite properly this should not be a issue.

 

[redtan]

The way u make it sound is as if the barb is standing still fireing gas while u smite him...

stats mean jack crap unless u have the skill on how to use these stats to their potential.
Reply With Quote

And you guys make it sound as if the pally is just sitting there fireing gas while you ww him with ur wizzies.

The same applies for your stats, just cuz u have 500 damage over 8 seconds thats unresistable, doesnt mean jack unless you have the skill to use these.

 

[Uncle_Mike]

OT: LET'S BE CIVIL ABOUT THINGS, LOVE IS THE ANSWER, THINK SWITZERLAND, COUNT TO 10 BEFORE YOU POST or whatever :laugh: you get the message :wink3:

This is to prevent flames further down the topic btw :wave:

 

[SicHalo]

OT: LET'S BE CIVIL ABOUT THINGS, LOVE IS THE ANSWER, THINK SWITZERLAND, COUNT TO 10 BEFORE YOU POST or whatever :laugh: you get the message :wink3:

This is to prevent flames further down the topic btw :wave:

im not angry hes made a quote without reading my whole reply.


plus i dont like that wizzy idea at all maybe becasue i stack easy anyway but wizzys on barbs only use to me was vs defensive blizz sorcs or defensive casters as u do dmg with ow etc.

to clear things up here is a setup i would use;


ort kira
res boots
hls
some stack from charms
worst comes to worst fade
arguments sake ort or forti armour
grief
beast or doom
widow on switch

now i use gas then i switch to main hand weaps if u try to smite unless u have skill smiting u still have no chance.. u argued the range 3 idea but if u knew ur stuff u would know u are then liable to be abused by any slow piece of items, i.e be it clegs or doom...

u now have what a 6k foh that does nothing ur best chance now is weither u know how to smite... Although with the barbs lack of dr with this setup this the best chance u got.

 

[redtan]

im not angry hes made a quote without reading my whole reply.

Lol, it's hard to read ur whole reply when you initial posts consists of 2 lines, then you go ahead and edit the post and then say I didn't read the whole thing.

That quote that I posted was you ENTIRE post at the time of my reading it, if you went ahead and added more to you post then fine. But don't blame me for not reading the whole thing when there was nothing else there, and what you added was after I read you initial post

I'm not trying to start up a war here, I'm just telling you what I do and what works for me in terms of strategies. And so far, these have worked pretty ok. I belive what you say, but as I said before,nothing is perfect and there are way of combating any setup that an opponent might go with.

 

[luke the duke]

fohers= ezpk

 

[Ce Olba]

Ce Olba, u don't seem to understand, that with a grief, even a 1 point smite/fana deals up to 800 pvp damage.

Somehow I don't believe that you could pull off 6536 damage with a 1pt Smite. With a 375 Grief, your damage should be more like 4800. With a 400 Grief, it would be 5031. Now, where the hell do you think you are pulling that 800 PvP damage? And heck, that 6536 would be with 28% PDR. With 31, you would need to pull off 6820. And your "almighty" 5031 would be 616 damage on my BvC who has a 28% PDR CoA.

So if you're a godly 8k life barb, it takes 10 shots to kill you. I wonder what's gonna act first, 500 damage over 8 seconds from a range 1 attack that can be blocked and has to go thru 20k defense, or a simple auto hit range 3 smite that does 800 damage instantly.

Let's see. You are again misunderstanding me. I want to see what part of Guided Arrow needs to go through defense. The only thing you are right about is 10 hits. And that's only because my BvC is a welfare piece of crap with a mere 6162 life at lvl 92 due to crappy charms.

And with a grief, the foh damage is around 6.5k at -175 resistances.

Let's see. A normal Foher would be pulling off 6034 damage per FoH with a Grief while trying to retain a decent defense and PDR%. And that is, indeed, with -175% resistances.

It's funny that you seem to say that a 1 sided attacker is stupid and can easily be negated, but you gotta remember that you're not the only one that gets to go to the stash and put on backup gear. So if you prepare for a lightning damage with hardcore sorb and resistances, I can prepare for that and put on the melee gear.

Sorry, sorb is not needed to humiliate fohers, as their damage is crap even with something as basic as TGod's + Stack. Putting on sorb to that would be ridiculous, it would make your damage into ~110 even with 10k Foh. Oh, heck, with 90% LR, that would mean ~60 damage. Not quite mighty, is it? And that would mean you would need 100 fohs to kill my welfare BvC.

Point is: stop pulling numbers that you have no idea of or make a clear point of your build. So far, you've failed with all the damage numbers you've given out.

 

[redtan]

Lol dude whatever, so much for "keeping this thread civil" and "no flaming".

I pulled those numbers off of my character screen, if you can't belive it then I could care less.

 

[redtan]

Somehow I don't believe that you could pull off 6536 damage with a 1pt Smite.

I never said I pull off 6500 damage with 1 point smite (that would be 1040 pvp damage) Where did I say that? Somehow, you seem to not know how to read. I said I pull off 800 pvp damage, which translates to 5000 damage, not 6536. So you're just puttin words in my mouth and then calling me a liar. Nice.

Let's think about the numbers a little since you think I'm failing at it.

400 grief + 153 from HS + 48 from Hoz = 601

360ed from smite + 271ed from fana + 170ed from strength = 801%ED

601 * 9.01 = 5415 (when you came up with 5031 so it seems to me like YOU fail at numbers)

5415 * .16 = 866 pvp damage with no DR

Point is: stop pulling numbers that you have no idea of or make a clear point of my build. So far, you've failed with all the damage numbers you've given out. I still dont see how you can tell me that my numbers are wrong, when I'm the one with this character and you don't even have one with the same exact gear and skills as mine.

 

[mainaman]

just stack res, and nl tele on them when they are charging, it also works when they stop to foh you. Fohers have poor block so you can 3 ww them ez.
I use 3 res boot/ort kiras/ 2xfcr rings with 53 lr combined, ~50 light res in charms, thats plenty they barely scratch you. If needed add tgods

 

[redtan]

Fohers have poor block

Lvl 44 holy shield with hoz = 75% block

That not good enough for you?

Seriously, any pally short of spirit wielding hdins that doesn't have max block needs to remake their character.

With holy shield and hoz it's really easy to have max block.

 

[luke the duke]

fohers=ezpk

 

[mainaman]

Lvl 44 holy shield with hoz = 75% block

That not good enough for you?

Seriously, any pally short of spirit wielding hdins that doesn't have max block needs to remake their character.

With holy shield and hoz it's really easy to have max block.

my question is exactly how do you get 20k def with hoz?
you have to have alot of pts in defiance to get that ?
apart from this your foh will do pathethic dmg vs well geared barb and your smite is not going to be good enough to kill decent barbs.
imagine fortitude+coa bvc with stackerd res and tgods you are dead in about 3 ww if you dare to smite them

 

[redtan]

my question is exactly how do you get 20k def with hoz?
you have to have alot of pts in defiance to get that ?

Upped hoz + 44 Holy shield + some points in defiance.

Remember, FoH requires 3 skills to be maxed, 4 if you include HS. By the time I got to lvl 94 I have a lot of leftover points that went into res lite and a few defiance. In hindsight, I would've dumped all these into smite/fana instead.