Fishymancer - Version 2.1

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Artagas

Diabloii.Net Member
I start wondering again and again, about how max block was useful for my necro. As for melee i don't remember getting anything that close to me for a long while, so in the WSK the only thing i need to be careful about is elemental attacks (gloams, and also it helps if i don't fall asleep while 5 meteors are about to drop on my head). Now the only place where it really helps is the pit with all the ranged attackers that are blockable. Otoh i think running the pit with 10 or so skellies on p1-3 (optimal for mf, i dont care about the exp), is safe enough either way. I think i will just remove my shield for a while and see if it gets more dangerous, for the sake of testing this theory.

Not like i could do much with the points i spent on dex. Points in vitality give tiny hp. A little extra energy would be nice, but not crucial.
 

DurfBarian

Diabloii.Net Member
Nice guide. Someday I'll find time to do one of these guys.

Two things:

1. In the "pwned by normal Diablo" section you write "If one of your skellies goes down, recast it immediately. There should be plenty of bodies around, usually." But I think that once you open all the seals the bodies in the CS all vanish. I think. You need to go elsewhere to make skellies if you run low during this battle. I think. If I'm wrong, you know who to blame.

2. Maybe you mentioned it and I didn't read carefully enough, but Pindleskin's garden is always a great place to grab a quick army of skeletons, since you can use all those corpses snoozing away when you first enter Anya's portal. Could be something to mention in the "Whom to run?" section or in some general advice for raising armies/facing Act V.
 

Llathias

Banned
Nightfish said:
I'm not sure what you're implying, but the changes I made were not based on outside input, they were simply the results of stripping the build down to the bone so I can add several variants. It's basically just another way of saying what was previously in the guide.
I'm not implying that I gave you the tip for those, I'm not as blindly arrogant to even think that I can teach you the game (my highest char is a lvl 52 zealot in A2 NM). I was just a little disappointed to read "it works best as it is, tried and tested, and you might have problems if you do it otherwise" as response to my opinion about your guides not 100% suiting my personal playing preferences. Now I'm really happy as with these minor changes the guide fits my tastes even more! (yay, now i can kill fallens with a golem! :clap: )

i was thinking of mentioning this, but forgot. you could add a sentence or two about making Iron Golems out of ethereal items. IIRC, they have no disadvantages and but have the style points. speaking of which, does the golem get the dmg on the weapon/def on the armor/block on the shield or just the mods?

a question about game play... should i use CE on Diablo or leave all those corpses in case i need to make new skeletons?

would it be too much laziness if i also ask you which monsters CANNOT be revived?

while i have the opportunity, congratulations again on the guide! your guides are like the episodes of a legend, yet i have to be an annoyance :p
 

Randall

Diabloii.Net Member
@artagas: seems like you answered your own question allready :)
It improves general survivability, specially in Act V where there are these physical piercing ranged attackers. (or not dying due to quill rat's)

Allthough not a lot of new stuff, it's nice to be reading all info again with small additions. Now I have to build a SPL fishy as well.

Randall
 

Nightfish

Diabloii.Net Member
Artagas, the optimum player settings for MF is 1. And I would always go with blocking over max vita on my necro. There is absolutely no reason not to do that, especially in HC

Durf, I know for a fact that I had several corpses where diablo spawns. Dunno if he's like baal and doesn't always remove all the corpses or if only the corpses near the final seal get removed. At any rate, more often than not there are corpses there. I thought I had added this pindleskin thing but seems I forgot again. It's definetly not needed, though. When I run the WS K I just save myself these 30 seconds and raise my minions as I go along. Works just nicely.

Llathias, you can't revive OKs and the guys that explode themselves. As far as I know everything else works. Usually I kill diablo on players 8 and CE won't really kick his ass too hard so I'd just leave the bodies to raise new skellies, if needed. Usually I don't need to do that.
 

Randall

Diabloii.Net Member
I think you can also not revive these "leapers" normally in Act II.

allthough you can not revive these guys that explode themselves, if you revive them before they are in exploding form and you revive one of these whip guys, they can explode while being revived.

Randall
 

Artagas

Diabloii.Net Member
Nightfish said:
Artagas, the optimum player settings for MF is 1.
I dont entirely agree with that part. I know it is not like p2 gives double item drop, but for some runs (pit or pindle in particular) i dont notice a real difference in speed when upping the player settings a bit. (2 or 3 as i sad) Especially with pindle, the loading time is longer than the actual fight, so even if he has double hp it is maybe a 10% increase to my run time.
 

Nightfish

Diabloii.Net Member
Artagas said:
I dont entirely agree with that part. I know it is not like p2 gives double item drop, but for some runs (pit or pindle in particular) i dont notice a real difference in speed when upping the player settings a bit. (2 or 3 as i sad) Especially with pindle, the loading time is longer than the actual fight, so even if he has double hp it is maybe a 10% increase to my run time.
Fact is that about 80% of your sets & uniques come from bosses and champs. (Quoted from memory. No, I can't link to the thread where that info was gathered, it was over a year ago in the 1.10s beta) At any rate, those are unaffected by player settings. The only thing that is affect are the remaining 20%. I'm pretty sure you can do the maths on when higher player settings start being efficient. The result of last years research was that it is next to impossible to up the players and do as well as before, let alone doing better.
 

Artagas

Diabloii.Net Member
Nightfish said:
Fact is that about 80% of your sets & uniques come from bosses and champs. (Quoted from memory. No, I can't link to the thread where that info was gathered, it was over a year ago in the 1.10s beta) At any rate, those are unaffected by player settings.
??
I didn't know that. Moreover ATMA's drop chanche calculator shows increasing chanches for bosses/uniques if you up the player settings. Are you positive?
 

Nightfish

Diabloii.Net Member
Forgive me if I don't really enter this discussion anymore but I've said all of this several times already in various threads. ("several" is probably understating it by a lot, too >_<) Don't really care to rehash old arguments that I've already heard too often :)

I am positive that I never saw a boss/champ drop more than 1 item, yes. Have you ever seen one drop more than 1? I beat you haven't. ;)

I am also positive that the extra time it takes to kill act bosses with a necromancer does not make it worthwhile to increase player settings. Might be different for extremely overpowered chars like blizzard sorcs but I always stay on 1 anyway.
 

Artagas

Diabloii.Net Member
Nightfish said:
Forgive me if I don't really enter this discussion anymore but I've said all of this several times already in various threads. ("several" is probably understating it by a lot, too >_<) Don't really care to rehash old arguments that I've already heard too often :)

I am positive that I never saw a boss/champ drop more than 1 item, yes. Have you ever seen one drop more than 1? I beat you haven't. ;)

I am also positive that the extra time it takes to kill act bosses with a necromancer does not make it worthwhile to increase player settings. Might be different for extremely overpowered chars like blizzard sorcs but I always stay on 1 anyway.
Nah, that is okay. My bad. when you sad "bosses" for some reason i tought of "act bosses", so that is why i was surprised.
 

drinkturps

Diabloii.Net Member
I see that Fire Golem is now added for questing. Am I correct in assuming then, that using the fire golem takes the heat off (no pun intended) you during normal play and then use the clay golem when tackling the end bosses.

I didn't think the fire golem lived long enough (although I have not tried) as it's hit points are lower than that of a clay golem.

Iron Golem optional if you can cast it using a nice item?
 

Nightfish

Diabloii.Net Member
drinkturps said:
I see that Fire Golem is now added for questing. Am I correct in assuming then, that using the fire golem takes the heat off (no pun intended) you during normal play and then use the clay golem when tackling the end bosses.
Yeah, aura pisses things off so they head for the golem instead of you. It's not a big thing but it beats the clay golem who has thing useful to add for questing. CG is pretty much only useful vs act bosses for me.

drinkturps said:
I didn't think the fire golem lived long enough (although I have not tried) as it's hit points are lower than that of a clay golem.
He does, though, assuming you have a bit of +skills. Plain fact is that you have so many things running around that each of them is usually attacked only by 1-2 monsters. Always try stuff. Much better than just thinking. ;)

drinkturps said:
Iron Golem optional if you can cast it using a nice item?
Yes, definetly. Main reason why I don't use IG most of the time is because I run the WS K and he kills himself too often to iron maiden.
 

drinkturps

Diabloii.Net Member
Thanks Nightfish. My latest Fishymancer is at lvl18 and I will now invest a point into fire golem. I've not used one in 1.10 so I'm rather excited. Thanks again for one of the most fun characters I've played! :thumbsup:
 

Llathias

Banned
sorry for asking the same question twice in the same thread, but it was not answered and i thought it had gotten lost among others.

does the iron golem get dmg from weapons/def from armor/block from shield? in other words, is there any difference in making it out of, say, a hand axe and a hatchet? and consequently, if it does benefit from dmg/def, ethereals should be the choice, right? i'd read something about that in a guide, but all i remember is that they look cooler with semi-transparant gray color.

Nightfish & Durf: the Pindleskin's garden trick is mentioned in the 3rd post of the thread, 2nd paragraph, under the title of "Getting the first corpses". i blame Durf for not noticing (possibly not even reading!) it!
 

SeDnA

Diabloii.Net Member
Whee, level 46 fishy at NM act 2. With decent items thanks to some nice forum members out there.
 

Nightfish

Diabloii.Net Member
Llathias said:
does the iron golem get dmg from weapons/def from armor/block from shield? in other words, is there any difference in making it out of, say, a hand axe and a hatchet? and consequently, if it does benefit from dmg/def, ethereals should be the choice, right? i'd read something about that in a guide, but all i remember is that they look cooler with semi-transparant gray color.
Dunno about block but making one from anything but a weapon is kinda pointless anyway. If you need a golem to tank you can just use clay or fire. He does gain defence & damage from items. Basically the only use for this is to make it from a real kickass weapon, preferably with crushing blow on it. Kills itself to iron maiden, though.
 

Llathias

Banned
Nightfish said:
He does gain defence & damage from items.
thx, that was my main question. the block was just out of curiosity. and phase blade golems are not indestructable, i guess. also, is there a way wheer i can see my golem's item-included final AR/dmg/def/resists etc?
 

Cormallon

Diabloii.Net Member
FYI, there is a great golem guide in the necromancer forum. The abilities of all golem types are discussed as well as the pros/cons of specific items to make an iron golem.
 
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