Fishymancer Skills

robdylan

Diabloii.Net Member
Fishymancer Skills

Hi all

Finished Nightmare with my Fishy (thanks for the goodamn IK Belt, Baal. Some uniques woulda been nice) at about level 74. I'm planning on levelling up to approx 80 by doing WSK runs, before heading into Hell.

My current stats are:

Str 89
Dex 101
Vit 130
Ene 66

Spare points: 79

Skills:

SM, RS and CE : 20
Revive, Fire Golem, Attract, Decrepify and SR: 1 each
Pre-reqs for all above

Spare skill points: 7

Gear:

Helm: PTopazed Tarnhelm
Armour: 3PTopaz Light Plate
Ammy: Tancred's
Weapon 1: Ali baba (unsocketed)
Weapon 2: Ume's Lament
Shield 1: Whitstan's
Shield 2: Homunculus (Eth)
Gloves: Trangs
Belt: Goldwrap
Boots: Tancred's
Rings: 29% nagle, 25% MF magic

Obvious areas for improvement - I want a Rhyme Grim Shield to replace Whitstan's (if anyone has a spare 2-soket one...) and obvisouly some better armour (can't seem to find Skullders. I guess something exceptional with 4 PTopazes). I also badly need resists, especially lightning. I guess I need to sacrifice MF on the rings and ammy and rather get some resists. I can wear War Travellers if I lose the Tancred's Ammy (since then there ain't no point to the boots)

My plan is to aim for about 60% block with my rhyme shield, and pump the rest of my spare stat points into Vit. What are you guys doing in terms of skills? Should I pump Summon Resist (seems to have diminishing returns)? Curse duration and area seem fine, so no point in pumping those. Maybe more in revive? I really just can't find a sensible place to put these points.

Advice would be much appreciated ;)
 

San

Diabloii.Net Member
Humm.. quoting from the Fishy-guide of the the fish :D

Nightfish said:
Remaining Skill Points:

If you plan on doing a lot of runs with your necro you can probably get him into his mid ninties sooner or later. So, if you go with just the minimum values on your core build you can save up enough skill points to max another skill. This will usually mean that you need a decent amount of +skills or you will find your curses' radius (amp damage, mainly) so small that your overall efficiency will suffer. You don't really need anything specific, whatever you decide to do with your points will most likely just have a very minor impact. Let's consider our options anyway:

Bone Armour:
In the current patch each point in bone armour absorbs 10 damage while points in the synergies absorb 15 points. So, you could get 1 point in BA and dump the rest into a synergy. (or you can use the marrowwalk bug to beef BA up even more) Either way, this can help you survive, not bad in HC. I usually don't have survival problems so this is not really my first pick.

If you chose this and add points to a synergy this will give you access to bone wall or bone prison, both extremely useless to you, detrimental even. Blocking your army's path isn't in your best interest so you might want to not use those skills.

Raise Mage:
Well, I've pretty much said it all before. Personally I have no use for mages. They don't really synergise well with your curse, your merc or the rest of your army. If you can get a point in LR and max mages they might be somewhat helpful but it's nothing to write home about. If you cast LR you can't have amp active which means you lose more damage than you gain. I can see this being mildy useful against PI enemies that cannot be broken with amp.

Bone Spells
You can probably max one of these spells like Bone Spear or Bone Spirit. That in itself is pretty much useless but if you have marrowwalk boots on you can get somewhat decent damage. Then again, exploiting a bug like that may be too cheesy for you, I know I don't really want to use stuff like that. At any rate, I think that a bonespell wouldn't add too much anyway. You'll be spending a lot of mana that would be better spent on CE. If you don't mind quaffing a lot of blue pots you might be able to help getting the first corpses with bone spear.

Poison Dagger
Again, something for the rich and famous (and the cheesy): If you have a Venom Runeword (TalDolMal) you can make use of the charges to synergise poison dagger. Again you might want a point in lower resist to help out and again the damage won't be anything to write home about. But this might be helpful in killing the unbreakable PIs that I keep mentioning.

Golems
If you max golem mastery you end up with extremely durable golems... that don't really kill anything. If you're just using clay and fire this is really a waste of points. But if you chose to make an iron golem out of something moderately useful yet common this might be nice. Once you start MFing a lot you will find more IK Mauls, Windhammers, etc than you could ever want so you can afford to make a good iron golem every now and then which can be pretty helpful. Only recommended if you expect to get rich and have an item surplus, though.

Iron Maiden
You can also max iron maiden which might be useful against hard hitting melee monsters. The reason why this isn't a primary skill for a skelliemancer is because it isn't nearly as universal as amp damage. Dealing damage works against everything, which is why the combination of might and amp damage is so useful. But if you have the points to spare and want to try something else... Go for it. Don't worry about not having thorns, thorns doesn't make iron maiden any stronger. (unlike might & amp damage which boost each other)

Allround Approach
This is what I've favored on my past necromancers. I put more points in my favorite curses and revives. Getting more than 10 revives is pretty much only useful when you can get ranged ones and can teleport them around a little (Naj's Puzzler). More in amp damage means you need to curse less often which means you can start using CE sooner which means you save time. I also put a few more in golem mastery and summon resist. A few points in LR can also help revives with elemental attacks.
 

maxgerin

Diabloii.Net Member
robdylan said:
Obvious areas for improvement - I want a Rhyme Grim Shield to replace Whitstan's (if anyone has a spare 2-soket one...) and obvisouly some better armour (can't seem to find Skullders. I guess something exceptional with 4 PTopazes). I also badly need resists, especially lightning. I guess I need to sacrifice MF on the rings and ammy and rather get some resists. I can wear War Travellers if I lose the Tancred's Ammy (since then there ain't no point to the boots)

My plan is to aim for about 60% block with my rhyme shield, and pump the rest of my spare stat points into Vit. What are you guys doing in terms of skills? Should I pump Summon Resist (seems to have diminishing returns)? Curse duration and area seem fine, so no point in pumping those. Maybe more in revive? I really just can't find a sensible place to put these points.

Advice would be much appreciated ;)
Shield: I think the idea for Rhyme Grim Shield is good.
Armor: Since you want MF, and no Skullder's, then 4-PTopaz Dusk Shroud or Wyrmhide, or anything else than can have 4-os and fits your Strength.

Lightning Problem: I think for this build the only problem is lightning (Gloams, etc), so just go for T-god's... lose some MF, but will help you survive alot.
Other resist and MF: Go for Chromatic/Prismatic Ammy of Luck/Fortune; rings can have this too if I'm not mistaken... Rainbow of Fortune, so something like that. then you can wear War Travs.

Blocking: Go with 75% more than life... really, this build as far as I know is full of tankers (with all those skellies, etc.). You'll really need Blocking before Life.

Skills: Ahh... I think this ends up with preference, the build is basically done early on and skill points after that can be spent anywhere I guess.

I hope this helps, don't really know much about this... I'm doing a Poison/Summoner... so just half-knowledge on this. :p
Good luck in Hell! :)

--maxgerin
 

Rugruth

Diabloii.Net Member
I went the chessy bone way (hoping to get marrowalk since I played untwintked) and now I somewhat regret. I used only 1 point on CE, so I have about 700 bspear damage without marrowbug. Only with some hard unbreakable PI's it's useful.

If I were to rebuild my fishy I suppose I would spent some points to harden my minions, endure my golem and summon resist. I can see from your gear that you aren't rich ( like me ) so maybe its the way to go, so your minions die less while you are on mf gear (i.e. lower +skills).

About the res, well all my res are on red while I mf, and only gloams kill me... The same goes for blocking.

Oh and if you plan to do mf with this level of +skills, be sure to get some crushing blow for your merc, it MAKES the difference when running bosses.

All of this is, of course, only my opinion :D
 

robdylan

Diabloii.Net Member
San - me = pwned! Although, in my defence, I did read that. I just wanted to know what everyone is actually doing with their builds.

maxegrin - thanks. Good advice.

Rug - what exaclt yis the Marrowwalk bug? I've got a pair of these things in my stash - what is it that makes them so good, considering how much MF you sacrifice? You are right, in that I'm not rich. Hoping to become more so, hence this character!

As for my merc, he's got Guillame's, Shaftstop and an Amn'ed Hone Sundan, and yes, he owns bosses!
 

Rugruth

Diabloii.Net Member
It's not this object, is a 'bug' on this game patch. Some call it a feature thought...

The bug is that if you have an item with charges of a skill (marrowalk = lvl33 bone prison) and you DON'T spend hard points on the skill (i.e. you, as a necro don't put any point on bone prison) you get a free sinergy from the item.

You can notice it putting the item on, checking the damage absorved by your bone armor and then taking the item off.

The bug goes with all charges items on this patch, even magical firebolt ring, or poison creeper charges on Carrion Wind, etc...
 

Ashmer Amadeus

Diabloii.Net Member
Marrowwalks have charges of lvl 33 Bone Prison(?). If you have no hard points in that skill, the charges act like a synergy to the bone skills. Therefore wearing the boots will increase the damage of bone spear/spirit substantailly, and will make the one point you put in bone armor absorb 800ish damage.
 

robdylan

Diabloii.Net Member
Ashmer Amadeus said:
and will make the one point you put in bone armor absorb 800ish damage.
Wow. That's quite a good, thing, right? I mean, coupled with max block, it must work pretty well? Does BA only absorb physical damage, or elemental as well?
 

robdylan

Diabloii.Net Member
Going through my stash, I see I have a circlet with Teleport charges and +1 necro skills. Worth swapping the Tarnhelm for? I guess I could put a Topaz in it...
 

maxgerin

Diabloii.Net Member
robdylan said:
Going through my stash, I see I have a circlet with Teleport charges and +1 necro skills. Worth swapping the Tarnhelm for? I guess I could put a Topaz in it...
Sure.
It would be hard to use a Naj's Puzzler for this build, so just go with a Teleport Circlet or Ammy for this.
If you have an ammy, maybe that's better to use + a Harley instead of Tarn, provided you have one handy. :thumbsup:
Maybe the giveaway thread has one... ;)

--maxgerin
 

Rugruth

Diabloii.Net Member
Well since I'm poor and I don't like to accept giveaways (mainly coz I like finding gear myself), I use a tele staff on switch. If you switch and tele fast, the minions you have granted by the +skills on main switch wont die.

I mean, I have +4 skills on main switch, then if I switch I lose 1 skel. If I switch, tele fast and switch back I don't lose any skel.

Oh my poor english :eek:
 

Cormallon

Diabloii.Net Member
Well... I'm quite new to fishies myself, I built one according to NFs guide and powerplayed him up to Pit for MFing. Some obervations I made as a fishy-noob:

Don't worry too much about resists. Charged bolts from the beetles, magic attacks from all kind of mages, archers and so on don't get to hit you much. Most missiles are caught by your skellies before they have a chance to reach you. Just be sure that you always stand behind your army.

It is indeed true that the skellies in later levels seem to be much more endurable than they should on paper, see the discussion between NF and Jiansonz in the fishy thread. They seldom die, even if they are in the middle of the battle. So, summon resists might sound good, but actually you don't need much.

I have a lot of points unspent, and I'm most likely going the golem mastery / iron golem route. During MF runs everything that gets you the first corpse faster is a help.

Edit: Oh, and I have about +10 summoning skills from equip, +3 skill tree ammy and other such items can be gambled.
 

Nightfish

Diabloii.Net Member
maxgerin said:
It would be hard to use a Naj's Puzzler for this build, so just go with a Teleport Circlet or Ammy for this.
No. Not at all. I always use naj's puzzler. I prefer this to a helm or an ammy because I can recharge it with the cube and it offers a lot of charges.

Personally I wouldn't swap whitstans for rhyme. Rhyme only offers 25% MF, iirc, which is not a lot and definetly not worth the loss in blocking.

If you need better resis you could put an ort into your whitstans. Or 2 orts / PDiamonds into a mosers, depending on how short you are on resis. I think I'd even consider upgrading the moser since that improves it's chance to block.
 

maxgerin

Diabloii.Net Member
Nightfish said:
No. Not at all. I always use naj's puzzler. I prefer this to a helm or an ammy because I can recharge it with the cube and it offers a lot of charges.
But he has to (1) use Ume (try using Arm of King Leoric, instead) and Homo, go out of town, raise his minions, then (2) switch to Naj's... he must also be ready that some of his minions will die (not sure now many, 2 or 3 ? ) when he switches. For me that's too much of a hassle so I said Naj's is hard to use for the build. :p But if he's willing to go through the hassle of switching, then Naj's is good for the job.

BTW, fishy, aren't helms (circlets) fixable including charges in the cube?
I haven't tried, but I'm assuming it's no different with other helms... :scratch:

--maxgerin
 

Nightfish

Diabloii.Net Member
The trick is that you don't use a +skills weapon to raise your minions. It's not needed. You just have your regular MF/Homu on 1 and the naj's on 2.

No, you cannot repair helms in the cube. Just armour and weapons.
 

robdylan

Diabloii.Net Member
Nightfish said:
The trick is that you don't use a +skills weapon to raise your minions. It's not needed. You just have your regular MF/Homu on 1 and the naj's on 2.
The problem I have is that my only homu is ethereal. I don't want to use it as my main shield, as it's losing durability quite rapidly.

Nightfish, how much MF do you end up with, all told?
 

Nightfish

Diabloii.Net Member
Well, in your case you'd probably use gull or ali and whitstans or moser's until you get a non eth homunculus. You could use trang's claws to make up for the loss in +skills to curses.

On my SC necro I think I had >750% MF, but that was with a lot of 7% MF charms and stuff that you end up with if you play a lot. At this time I don't have my HC necro equipped for MFing since he's already leven 90 and I want to level some of my other guardians while MFing. I could easily manage upward of 500%, though.

Due to the diminishing returns of MF it doesn't really matter much if you have 300 or 800. The only reason I had that much in SC is because I could. Kill speed remained unchanged since essentially it's just a matter of your merc getting a kill and you blasting everything to smithereens.

As a rule of thumb, try to get MF in big chunks and surrender small amounts for a lot of MF or +skills. For example, the amulet is a good slot to get skills and resis (mara's) for low costs. IIRC the best thing you could have there is 50% MF from a fortutious amulet of chance.
 

slappy sam

Diabloii.Net Member
I think mages really help- they can help to break PI's and they provide more of a meatshield to take some of the heat off your skels, merc, and golem (and you too). As for blocking, I don't think it is really neccessary because you should only be taking hits from elemental sources- your skellies will shield you from most attackers. Gloams are the major concern and for them you want life not blocking. Blocking will only help if you are in the middle of a group of physical attackers, which should never happen with 10+skellies, a merc, and a golem protecting you. Especially if you max mages... Then you have at least 20 minions. Bone armor also will help protect you from a bit of physical damage, although not much unless you use the Marrowalks bug.

Just my opinion of course.
 
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