Fishymancer Question

Detrean

Diabloii.Net Member
Fishymancer Question

I followed the guide that nightfish set up for a fishymancer that is made for MF runs in Baal hell runs. The problem is this.... it is extremely slow. Getting to the area where Baal spawns lister is no problem but taking out the last few spawns takes time and sometimes the skellies get completely destroyed by lister and crew. To make matters worse Baal takes about 5 minutes to kill off if it goes good. It can take over 10 minutes to kill Baal if for example he casts a double. My gear is mainly composed of MF stuff so the character is weak but the guide does say that it is made to be able to run naked.

Does anyone else have this build and find it very slow? I find that I am forced to run Meph over and over because I can run meph many times more and get many more items than when I run Baal. I would like to do Baal runs though because Baal can drop the best items. Can anyone suggest better strategies or is this the norm?

Thank you, I will be checking this thread constantly so if you have any Q's then I'll reply soon.
 

maiku

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer Question

What are the specs, skills, and gear on your Necro and Merc? Level of summons and types?
 

Detrean

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer Question

Barebones lvl 86

After Equipement:
Strength: 99
Dex: 25
Vit: 342
Energy: 58

Life: 955
Mana: 326
Resists in Hell: 6/-2/47/12

Skills after Equipement:
Amp Dam: 9
CE: 19
SM: 24
RS: 24
revive: 13
Summon resist: 7
deprepify: 5

Equipement:
head: 3 P gem
armor: 4 P gem
boots: 33% MF
Gloves: 18% MF
Belt: random rare
Wand: Ume's Lament
Shield: Ancients Pledge
Amulet: 2 to summoning
Rings: random rares

MF total: 218%

Merc: Act 2 might
Wep: Arioc's Needle
Armor: Goldskin
head: random rare

I do not trade for items. I do not play online. I do have what I consider to be a decent stash of uniques for someone that does not trade or play online.

When I am facing regular monsters I use a fire golem but when I face baal, Lister, or Meph I use clay. I think my main problem is in what I revive. Melee monsters are useless against bosses as usually they cannot hit past my skellies surrounding the boss. What ranged monsters are most effective against Baal and lister? Also are there any strategies that you have seen effective against Baal?

Thanks to everyone that helps me.
 
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canudig

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer Question

What are these???

head: 3 P gem
armor: 4 P gem
boots: 33% MF
Gloves: 18% MF
Belt: random rare
Wand: Ume's Lament
Shield: Ancients Pledge
Amulet: 2 to summoning
Rings: random rares
 

Detrean

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer Question

The P Gems are Topaz for the MF

Also I changed the Mercs equipement for when I get to Baal. I am using Rockstopper as his head gear for resists since I have switched out Goldskin. I replaced goldskin with Rattlecage for the 25% crushing blow. With that crushing blow I can bring Baal down quicker but certainly not fast as crushing blow does have diminishing returns. I also still have the same problems with revives, mass skellie deaths, etc.
 
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maiku

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer Question

Hmm, your skellies really aren't at the point where they could deal enough damage to kill stuff, and, as I suspected, your Merc doesn't really have a high-enough damage weapon or enough Crushing Blow to mop up really tough enemies or bosses. Those can be hard to get if you don't trade or play online.

First, consider getting a Tal's mask for your Merc. It has really nice mods and should toughen up your Merc quite a bit. Gamble for it, look for it, try to run areas like Pit for it. It drops often. It's often considered a "cheap" helm for Mercs, but it is a wonderful helm after all's said and done, and I think it would serve you a lot better than the rare you have on him.

Second, if you could get a Guillaume's Face for your Merc, that would significantly boost his damage. 35% Crushing Blow, 15% Deadly Strike, +15 Str, 30% faster hit recovery. This is one of the best melee helms in the game. You can also try to gamble for it or hunt. It drops somewhat commonly. Then maybe Amn his Arioc's Needle so that he has a source of life leech and doesn't drop dead while tanking. If not, try to keep up the number of minions and supplement with as many Revives as you can muster. Enough minions (10-15+) wandering around can keep a fragile Merc healthy. I've tested this with leechless or low-leech Mercs.

Another really good weapon that could possibly drop for you is Reaper's Toll. Normal Reaper's toll is all right. Keep it in stash and swap it out with the Arioc's when you need to run Baal. It provides huge life leech, Decrepify, and 33% Deadly Strike. When combined with a Guillaume's Face, a Might Merc can kill almost anything in Hell by himself. This is one of my favorite combinations. Restrict its use though, since Decrepify will interfere with Amp. On bosses and Lister, though, I think that would be quite all right.

If you have that mods that enable ladder-only rune words, make an "Obedience" in an (ethereal) elite polearm. This will make your Might Merc a million times more powerful. It's quite likely you could find all the runes by regular MF, Trav, or Countess runs. It should be combined with a source of leech, such as from Tal's mask, Stealskull, etc.

Your Merc would also be in better shape if he had something like an ethereal "Duress" or ethereal "Treachery." "Duress" offers some resists, massive FHR, some Crushing Blow, cold damage, and Open Wounds. "Treachery" offers Level 15 Fade on proc (15% PDR, +60 all resists), Venom, and 45% IAS, which can help him poke enemies a lot faster or attack fast enough to leech back a lot of life.

Also consider raising cold skeleton mages if you can, so that you can slow down attackers approaching your army. You want to do everything you can to slow and hinder Lister and friends.
 

handofnaz

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer Question

Maiku summed it all up very well for you, pretty much! If you don't have access to these runes or items, though, consider making a Strength runeword (Amn + Tir) in a polearm or spear for your mercenary. It's the cheapest source of Crushing Blow for an untwinked character and works wonders in a pinch.
 

Detrean

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer Question

Thank you so much Maiku!

I am not completely untwinked. I do have 57 uniques and store them using ATMA. I see that runewords do provide the best equipment after reading your suggestions. I do not have many good runes though so it looks like I'll be doing countess runs to change that situation.... It is just very tiring trying to find upper level runes.

Nightfish indicates that you can run hell WSK and baal naked. I guess you could survive it but it would take you about 45 minutes to do one run...

I have one last question.... over than P gems is there any Uniques/sets/runewords that could boost my MF and at the same time give me more +skills? The reason I ask is because I am basically wasting my head, armor, boots, and gloves on purely MF equipment and I think that is why my skellies are so weak and so easily die to Lister and crew.

Once again thank you Maiku, I see you put some effort into your response to me and I appreciate that. Thanks also to Handofnaz.
 

maiku

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer Question

Thank you so much Maiku!

I am not completely untwinked. I do have 57 uniques and store them using ATMA. I see that runewords do provide the best equipment after reading your suggestions. I do not have many good runes though so it looks like I'll be doing countess runs to change that situation.... It is just very tiring trying to find upper level runes.
I understand your position. Even on ladder, I usually work with what I find or trade for. The runes required for something like an "Obedience" won't be half as bad to find as a Pul or Um, and they should drop with some frequency from the Countess.

Nightfish indicates that you can run hell WSK and baal naked. I guess you could survive it but it would take you about 45 minutes to do one run...
That's true. It's one thing to survive, another thing to dominate. Most builds, if they stepped into WSK naked, would die from one Gloam blast. And they would never get their body back. A Fishymancer can survive by using Merc, Clay Golem, Dim Vision, minions, etc. to control the situation.

I have one last question.... over than P gems is there any Uniques/sets/runewords that could boost my MF and at the same time give me more +skills? The reason I ask is because I am basically wasting my head, armor, boots, and gloves on purely MF equipment and I think that is why my skellies are so weak and so easily die to Lister and crew.
Quite a few actually.

For helm, "Lore" immediately comes to mind. I keep a few of these for my young characters, and all it requires is an Ort + Sol. I like to make them in circlets. This grants +1 skills, ~30% lightning resist, some damage reduction, and damage per kill.

Uniques:

Peasant Crown: +1 skills, excellent mods, and resembles a mini-Shako

Stealskull: good MF, although the IAS and leech mods work better on a Merc. In fact, this is one of my favorite helms for a MF Merc. Socket it with a perfect topaz or IAS jewel depending on what you need.

Tarnhelm: old standby, +1 skills + MF

Wormskull: +1 skills, not much else to mention

Shako: +2 skills, DR, and lots of goodies, including MF. This is probably the best helm for a dedicated MFing Necro, unless you happen to be blessed with a godly circlet.

Rares

Imbue diadems (I'll explain the reason for this in a second) and try to gamble for normal circlets. You may be able to get one with +1 or +2 skills, sockets, and other nice mods. If it has sockets, you can put in two perfect topazes or nice jewels you find. There's a specific reason why I mention to imbue diadems. IIRC, somewhere on the board I read that diadems imbue at a fixed and high-item level, so no matter what level the character is, they have a chance to receive the best mods a circlet can get. Therefore, if you get a terrible imbue on a diadem, you can also reroll it with perfect gems in your cube and it will roll at a high level, never diminishing in its item level. This allows you "infinite" rerolls/imbues to get a diadem with the stats you want. It's one of the few items in the entire game that does this. If you do not have any white diadems, they can be found in areas like Pit and Masoleum quite easily. To find more white items, reduce MF or wear no MF so that magics/rares/uniques drop less and more white items drop.

Armor:

Skullder's Ire: +1 skills, MF that scales with your level. Socket with perfect topaz and you're good to go.

"Wealth" rune word: no +skills, but lots of MF and lots of gold find, it does what it says. People who run and MF at Travincal like this one a lot, because it makes for insane gold drops.

Tal's stuff: armor + belt + mask should give you a hefty MF bonus from using partial set; in any case, I like the belt and use one on my Fishymancer

Vipermagi: +1 skills, great resists, 30% fcr, socket with a perfect topaz and then roll. This is one of the best caster armors, ever. Can be found somewhat regularly, although one with 34-35% all resists truly is a gem.

Goldwrap: up it and you have a nice belt. 30% MF, variable GF. Will make you rich, especially if you wear this and a "Wealth" armor and Chance Guards.

Gloves:

Magefists: +1 fire skills, more fcr, makes stuff go kaboom more when you use CE

Trang's gloves: more curse power, some cold resist, also has fcr

Chance Guards: premier MF and GF gloves. Good pair can have up to 40% MF. Gamble for these.

Rares: sometimes as you're gambling you'll get lucky and find rare gloves with good resists and MF.

Weapons:

Gull Dagger: I use one on my Necromancer. Instant 100% MF is awesome. It's part of my "adventure/MFing" gear setup, with my other "pre-buffing" gear on switch.

Ali Baba's: scaling MF that also has a lot of GF. It can also be socketed with jewels or Ists for even more MF. I'd recommend the MF jewels if you get some. I find that MF jewels drop with some regularity and I never use them...but here's a good use for them.

"Spirit" Crystal/Broad Sword: +2 skills, massive fcr, etc. this is an excellent adventure or pre-buffing weapon if you can make it. Likewise for a "Spirit" Monarch. Awesome shield, although it has high Str requirements.

Shields:

"Spirit" Monarch: hello to huge fcr, some resists, +Vita and +mana, other goodies. The big problem with a "Spirit" is the Str requirement. 156. Ouch. But a Fishymancer can afford such an investment.

Homunculus: allows for easy-to-get max block, huge resists (and socket with a perfect diamond for more), and boosts your skellies. I use one of these as part of my standard adventure gear. But I would change it if I got...

+2-3 Raise Skeleton, +Skel Mastery Necro Head: making one of these into a "Splendor" would be awesome. Imagine +3 Raise Skeleton, +3 Skeleton Mastery, +3 Corpse Explosion, and "Splendor"'d, would yield a +4 skill Necro head to your most powerful skills. Sick. I haven't found one, although I dream, but I did get a +3 Bone Spear, +2 Revive Necro head for my Bonemancer not long ago, so I know good Necro heads drop on occasion. One must just have hope and patience.

"Splendor"/"Rhyme": similar rune words, although "Splendor" provides +1 skills and some fcr and MF; "Rhyme" provides more resists, more block, and MF but no +skills--both are good depending on what you want.

Check magic/rare Necro heads. Technically, these can be more godly than what I listed above. +2 skills, sockets, increased block, +RS, etc. :smiley:

Boots:

War Traveler's: up to 50% MF on your boots and nice stat boosts as well. For pure MF, there is no better. However, they lack resists.

Marrowwalk boots: +1-2 to Skeleton Mastery, a few other interesting mods. Useful for the power-oriented Summoner but not for the MFer.

I use rares, though. I gambled some MF boots for myself that have resists and I use them on my Fishymancer. They have faster run, +dex (which helps with max block), fire and cold resist, and like 11 or 12% MF. I skimped on MF in favor of survival, but I hope to craft some nice caster boots someday or replace them with a better rare with around 20-30% MF.

Once again thank you Maiku, I see you put some effort into your response to me and I appreciate that. Thanks also to Handofnaz.
No problem. I'm glad to be of help. :smiley:


 

canudig

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer Question

Imbue diadems (I'll explain the reason for this in a second) and try to gamble for normal circlets. You may be able to get one with +1 or +2 skills, sockets, and other nice mods. If it has sockets, you can put in two perfect topazes or nice jewels you find. There's a specific reason why I mention to imbue diadems. IIRC, somewhere on the board I read that diadems imbue at a fixed and high-item level, so no matter what level the character is, they have a chance to receive the best mods a circlet can get. Therefore, if you get a terrible imbue on a diadem, you can also reroll it with perfect gems in your cube and it will roll at a high level, never diminishing in its item level. This allows you "infinite" rerolls/imbues to get a diadem with the stats you want. It's one of the few items in the entire game that does this. If you do not have any white diadems, they can be found in areas like Pit and Masoleum quite easily. To find more white items, reduce MF or wear no MF so that magics/rares/uniques drop less and more white items drop.
Going to correct you here.....you need the 6 pskulls recipe for rerolling diadems. and diadems are pretty hard to find........and it will take ALOT or rerolls to get something useful and even more for what you what......listen to the guy who has rerolled two diadems using over 100 pskulls and receiving only one trade-able diadem, I know he isn't going to trade it, but point is it'll take a long time to find enough flawless skulls to get into pskulls, and getting 6 to reroll once......



 

maiku

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer Question

Diadems aren't impossible to find or trade for. I've had them drop in Pit, the Mausoleum and Crypt, Chaos Sanctuary, and WSK quite often. These are Level 85+ areas. The best areas to run for them are Pit, Mausoleum, and Crypt, IMO, because of their ease. You are right, though, that they require 6 perfect skulls to reroll them. However, as his Fishymancer becomes more powerful and runs become faster, he should be able to generate perfect gems at a quick pace. I say this from experience having run my Fishymancer a lot through Pits, Travincal, Hell Cows, and other spots where the Fishymancer excels at area clears. The one thing I'm sure of on my MF runs is that I can have a couple dozen pgems after a good weekend.
 

canudig

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer Question

I didn't say they were impossible, just not very often. Personally I think I have found one plain diadem and maybe gambled a rare diadem once since about half a month ago and I play daily, running memph, trav, chaos, and sometimes WSK..........and since I think he's SP he has to find skulls, not just pgems, which is even harder (theoretically anyways)
 

NumtyDoo

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer Question

you definately need to boost your skills.

But a helpful hint for baal's minions; go towards the front of the room so you and your minions are out of range of baal's decrep curse.
 

maiku

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer Question

Canudig, the more MF, the less white items drop. I might see 2-3 a weekend or more if I'm using a char with low MF (and that's what I recommended he do if he wants to improve his chances for seeing them drop, along with other nice white socketables), like my Trang Poisonmancer and clearing Pit. With high MF, then a diadem drop is very rare.

Also, don't forget that he can boost his player count via the /players command. This makes gems, runes, items, etc. drop more often. He'll be able to run higher player games as his Fishymancer increases in power, and that in turn will boost his item drops, runes, and gems (and MF ultimately, if he can still kill things fast).
 

Nightfish

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer Question

The short answer is "You need crushing blow for Baal". I'm quite sure I included several suggestions for that in the guide. There are a lot of cheap items that can accomplish that, either for your merc or for yourself. Put 6Eths in a Phase Blade, for example, slap on goblin toe and guillaume's face and you can whittle baal's HP down personally and let your army do the rest. A lot of merc weapons also offer crushing blow. Obedience is one, I think.

Also, have an item with teleport charges on switch so you can drop your army on baal. Decrep him, have clay golem slow him. That should do it.
 
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