Fishymancer> Maxing skeletons is a must, but mage or golem=? de
- Thread starter Xanitra
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Ed from Russia
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer> Maxing skeletons is a must, but mage or golem=?
The following is optimum for all fishymancers:
20 Raise Skeleton
20 Skeletal Mastery
1 Clay Golem
1 Golem Mastery
1 Summon Resist
1 Revive
10-20 Corpse Explosion
1 Amp Damage
1 Decrepify
about 5 prerequisites
After this you have options:
A) Max Mages; a great option for a greater army, that adds elemental damage
B) Max Golem Mastery and get an Iron Golem. Not a must because a 1-pt Clay Golem does fine. Make your IG out of something like Insight or Strength for a useful aura or some CB
C) Max Bone Wall, rest in Bone Prison as synergies to get you a strong Bone Armor. Not a requirement when you already have your army to block physical attacks, but some people like it.
D) Max Dim Vision: an awesome crowd control skill; disables all dangers that a fishymancer has - gloams, stygian dolls, spear cats, vipers, ...
I personally prefer A or D (I vary between them), and I always max Corpse Explosion.
The following is optimum for all fishymancers:
20 Raise Skeleton
20 Skeletal Mastery
1 Clay Golem
1 Golem Mastery
1 Summon Resist
1 Revive
10-20 Corpse Explosion
1 Amp Damage
1 Decrepify
about 5 prerequisites
After this you have options:
A) Max Mages; a great option for a greater army, that adds elemental damage
B) Max Golem Mastery and get an Iron Golem. Not a must because a 1-pt Clay Golem does fine. Make your IG out of something like Insight or Strength for a useful aura or some CB
C) Max Bone Wall, rest in Bone Prison as synergies to get you a strong Bone Armor. Not a requirement when you already have your army to block physical attacks, but some people like it.
D) Max Dim Vision: an awesome crowd control skill; disables all dangers that a fishymancer has - gloams, stygian dolls, spear cats, vipers, ...
I personally prefer A or D (I vary between them), and I always max Corpse Explosion.
LozHinge the Unhinged
Diabloii.Net Member
When you are facing a Physical Immune, hi-regen Possessed Purple Ugly, you'll wish you had invested some points in (poison) Mages. If Baal won't behave despite your Clay Golem slowing him, you'll wish you had invested some points in (cold) Mages. As for Mages doing no damage, try using the German Pet Calculator to see what they can do.
I'm a walking Summoner (no teleport), I often encounter situations where Lower Resist plus Mages brings down monsters more quickly than my warriors. This is usually in doorways and other choke points, where only a single skele can swing at the enemy. The times when Mages annoy me for getting in the way or dying is more than compensated for by their advantages as outlines above.
Having tried both methods, I prefer to max RSM and put any spare points in GM, rather than the other way around. But, in the end, it's what works for you that is best.
I'm a walking Summoner (no teleport), I often encounter situations where Lower Resist plus Mages brings down monsters more quickly than my warriors. This is usually in doorways and other choke points, where only a single skele can swing at the enemy. The times when Mages annoy me for getting in the way or dying is more than compensated for by their advantages as outlines above.
Having tried both methods, I prefer to max RSM and put any spare points in GM, rather than the other way around. But, in the end, it's what works for you that is best.
Borje
Banned
Re: Fishymancer> Maxing skeletons is a must, but mage or golem=?
Depending on how many +skills you have you will want to use them differently. If you have your im Vision above lvl 10 (pref around 15) don't put more points into it, but otherwise get it up there, it's a very usefull skill.
My summoner uses an Infinity on merc, the conviction aura is awsome it will: Lower enemies defence (very usefull against bosses since your army will hit more often) and Lower enemies resistance to make my CE very strong. So for me it was a no-brainer to max mages to futher take advantage of that aura. Infinity also comes with 40% Crushing blow which futher speeds up my boss killing.
Depending on how many +skills you have you will want to use them differently. If you have your im Vision above lvl 10 (pref around 15) don't put more points into it, but otherwise get it up there, it's a very usefull skill.
My summoner uses an Infinity on merc, the conviction aura is awsome it will: Lower enemies defence (very usefull against bosses since your army will hit more often) and Lower enemies resistance to make my CE very strong. So for me it was a no-brainer to max mages to futher take advantage of that aura. Infinity also comes with 40% Crushing blow which futher speeds up my boss killing.
Borje
Banned
Re: Fishymancer> Maxing skeletons is a must, but mage or golem=?
I think the most of us who plays a fishy mancer is maxing in this order:
RS, SM, CE (with some occasional points in SM while maxing RS). After that you have a few options: Mages, DV, GM (for making a Iron golem out of some nice item). The way I did it was Mages and then GM. You will want your DV to reach at least lvl 10, so if you have lots of +skill items don't put points in it.
Trust me on the CE, it will kill so darn fast!
I think the most of us who plays a fishy mancer is maxing in this order:
RS, SM, CE (with some occasional points in SM while maxing RS). After that you have a few options: Mages, DV, GM (for making a Iron golem out of some nice item). The way I did it was Mages and then GM. You will want your DV to reach at least lvl 10, so if you have lots of +skill items don't put points in it.
Trust me on the CE, it will kill so darn fast!
Borje
Banned
Re: Fishymancer> Maxing skeletons is a must, but mage or golem=?
Since a very good shield of choise is Humonuclus, going for max block is possible. However, I hav echosen not to. If you, like I did, will have access to a CtA you should go max vita, but I would recomend max vita even though you don't. However, this is mostly a matter of prefference, if you really like block you could go for max block. I think both will be viable, but I can say from experience that max vita is viable.
Also, strenght should like allways be kept as low as possible. To make this build really shine you need some means of teleport and the best choise is, if you have the budget, to get Enigma. If you have an enigma, make sure to make full use of the big +str it gives. You want as much points as possible in Vita, and should not put any points in nrg. Early on, put an insight on your merc and later, if you have the eqipment (or some hard points in Golem Mastery) make an iron golem out of an Insight for the Meditation aura and you will never have a problem with running out of mana. When you have maxed Corpse Explosion you will learn to love it, Amp a monster pack and spam a few CEs. It will be like turning of the light when all those Amp-animations dissapear as the monsters die simultaniously :afro: the problem is that it will cost like 40+ mana/cast so to be able to spam it you either need Meditation aura from somewhere or a lot of Mana pots to gulp...
Since a very good shield of choise is Humonuclus, going for max block is possible. However, I hav echosen not to. If you, like I did, will have access to a CtA you should go max vita, but I would recomend max vita even though you don't. However, this is mostly a matter of prefference, if you really like block you could go for max block. I think both will be viable, but I can say from experience that max vita is viable.
Also, strenght should like allways be kept as low as possible. To make this build really shine you need some means of teleport and the best choise is, if you have the budget, to get Enigma. If you have an enigma, make sure to make full use of the big +str it gives. You want as much points as possible in Vita, and should not put any points in nrg. Early on, put an insight on your merc and later, if you have the eqipment (or some hard points in Golem Mastery) make an iron golem out of an Insight for the Meditation aura and you will never have a problem with running out of mana. When you have maxed Corpse Explosion you will learn to love it, Amp a monster pack and spam a few CEs. It will be like turning of the light when all those Amp-animations dissapear as the monsters die simultaniously :afro: the problem is that it will cost like 40+ mana/cast so to be able to spam it you either need Meditation aura from somewhere or a lot of Mana pots to gulp...
Ed from Russia
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer> Maxing skeletons is a must, but mage or golem=?
Borje's reply is spot on. But I've made a summoner with max block recently and he did fine. The point is - a summoner is such a safe character that you can't really go wrong as long as you have maxed Raise Skeleton and Skeletal Mastery.
Moe the Barkeep
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer> Maxing skeletons is a must, but mage or golem=?
I dumped all my extra points into golem mastery, since I use a insight iron golem so I can spam CE and teleport anywhere without using potions. Rusty never dies unless I do, and having unlimited mana is very helpful.
I use 7-9 mages and it seems to work well. My summoner kills very quickly, dont have a problem anywhere.
I dumped all my extra points into golem mastery, since I use a insight iron golem so I can spam CE and teleport anywhere without using potions. Rusty never dies unless I do, and having unlimited mana is very helpful.
I use 7-9 mages and it seems to work well. My summoner kills very quickly, dont have a problem anywhere.
ninjakiss
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer> Maxing skeletons is a must, but mage or golem=?
hmm...okay, i'll invest more in vitality, but if i remember correctly nightfish said people who have complained about his build not working have deviated from it. His build for fishymancer basically said when allocating to do (at first) +4 into strength, and 1 into energy. and then later on a little into vitality. someone correct me if im wrong. also i understand it is preference....
hmm...okay, i'll invest more in vitality, but if i remember correctly nightfish said people who have complained about his build not working have deviated from it. His build for fishymancer basically said when allocating to do (at first) +4 into strength, and 1 into energy. and then later on a little into vitality. someone correct me if im wrong. also i understand it is preference....
Re: Fishymancer> Maxing skeletons is a must, but mage or golem=?
I have a Fishymancer with max block as well and lots of Vita. With Homunculus, it was easy to do both. There are several variants on a Fishymancer, and even Nightfish mentions that the core requirements still allow for a lot of flexibility and different equipment setups and some playstyle changes. So long as you have CE, RS, and SM, a Fishymancer is whatever you want him to be.
I have a Fishymancer with max block as well and lots of Vita. With Homunculus, it was easy to do both. There are several variants on a Fishymancer, and even Nightfish mentions that the core requirements still allow for a lot of flexibility and different equipment setups and some playstyle changes. So long as you have CE, RS, and SM, a Fishymancer is whatever you want him to be.
Re: Fishymancer> Maxing skeletons is a must, but mage or golem=?
ninjakiss, iirc the reason why nightfish recomended things the way he did was because he played untwinked, actually didn't he complete hell naked? If you are going to play that way it may be necessary to stick exactly with nightfish's build. But if you are going to have access to all of the +skills/stats items later on it is not necessary to follow it so tightly.
ninjakiss, iirc the reason why nightfish recomended things the way he did was because he played untwinked, actually didn't he complete hell naked? If you are going to play that way it may be necessary to stick exactly with nightfish's build. But if you are going to have access to all of the +skills/stats items later on it is not necessary to follow it so tightly.
AnimeCraze
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer> Maxing skeletons is a must, but mage or golem=?
Nightfish said just about nothing with stats (other than max block or not). He was talking about skills, and how you should max RS first, so that you won't get owned by Duriel or Diablo.
Nightfish said just about nothing with stats (other than max block or not). He was talking about skills, and how you should max RS first, so that you won't get owned by Duriel or Diablo.
flamingchen
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer> Maxing skeletons is a must, but mage or golem=?
Man, this necro pwns. I just got into hell at level 72 and with level 32 RS, 34 SM, and 26 CE, just tears stuff apart. Only thing that takes long is bosses because I haven't bothered to put a guillames on my merc yet. I use insight to just spam CE to make these chains to kill so fast. I do use a nice tele ammy (25 charges, mana, life, resists, but no skills) to get by. Really made the maggot lair and sanctuary a lot easier because I could tele through or just onto something and CE the rest.
Unfortunately, I have found that he works best in single player, as amp+CE instantly kills most monsters, but as the players get highers, CE really loses out a lot.....
Man, this necro pwns. I just got into hell at level 72 and with level 32 RS, 34 SM, and 26 CE, just tears stuff apart. Only thing that takes long is bosses because I haven't bothered to put a guillames on my merc yet. I use insight to just spam CE to make these chains to kill so fast. I do use a nice tele ammy (25 charges, mana, life, resists, but no skills) to get by. Really made the maggot lair and sanctuary a lot easier because I could tele through or just onto something and CE the rest.
Unfortunately, I have found that he works best in single player, as amp+CE instantly kills most monsters, but as the players get highers, CE really loses out a lot.....
Friiser
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer> Maxing skeletons is a must, but mage or golem=?
My experience is that most people "prebuff" their army, then switch to their regular gear and accept the loss of a few skellies. IMO, that's too much work.
I found that getting a sorceress' staff with teleport charges on it works so much better than sacrificing the amulet slot for that function. They can be shopped starting in Normal, Act III from Ormus. At lower levels, switching away from your wand and necro head will kill off some skellies instantly, but once you are at the higher levels (as per your post), it take significantly more time before the loss of RS skills kicks in and offs some of your skellies. This allows me to switch, tele, the switch back without any loss of my raised army.
My experience is that most people "prebuff" their army, then switch to their regular gear and accept the loss of a few skellies. IMO, that's too much work.
This is very true - CE does not ramp up at the same scale as the monster's hit points when changing players. But it is still deals significant damage - I've found that if you wait for a few corpse to accumulate (instead of bombing the first one), you can spam the 2+ corpses and start the ball rollin'! This is one of the reasons why I prefer to max RSM, as they do significant elemental damage when you've got 11 or so standing with you - get those first few knocked down quicker!
ninjakiss
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Fishymancer> Maxing skeletons is a must, but mage or golem=?
interesting to note about CE...Also, what's the point of going over 20 for RS and SM? Not being sassy, just wondering since i'm a fishymancer noob.
Re: Fishymancer> Maxing skeletons is a must, but mage or golem=?
Try running it through the handy-dandy Necro Pet Calculator:
http://tph.tuwien.ac.at/~gottwald/necro_pet_calculator.html
Only 20 in Raise Skeleton + 20 Skeleton Mastery = 125 avg damage per Skeleton Warrior hit
30 in RS + 30 SM = 310 avg damage per hit for example. +10 skill points made a huge difference in their damage (and also large gains in their life). These bonuses that skeletons get only get larger and larger with the more +skills and other bonuses you stack on them (like Might aura from Might Merc, Fanaticism, Concentration, etc.). With enough +skills and bonuses on your skeletons, they become absolute beasts. Without enough +skills, they're another supplementary form of damage to CE.
Try running it through the handy-dandy Necro Pet Calculator:
http://tph.tuwien.ac.at/~gottwald/necro_pet_calculator.html
Only 20 in Raise Skeleton + 20 Skeleton Mastery = 125 avg damage per Skeleton Warrior hit
30 in RS + 30 SM = 310 avg damage per hit for example. +10 skill points made a huge difference in their damage (and also large gains in their life). These bonuses that skeletons get only get larger and larger with the more +skills and other bonuses you stack on them (like Might aura from Might Merc, Fanaticism, Concentration, etc.). With enough +skills and bonuses on your skeletons, they become absolute beasts. Without enough +skills, they're another supplementary form of damage to CE.
MYK
Diablo: IncGamers Member
Re: Fishymancer> Maxing skeletons is a must, but mage or golem=?
I took off all of the +skills except for I think his Annihilus, so his skills were at 21/21. I noticed that it really didn't slow down a whole lot because I had a really beefy mercenary that was dishing out tons of damage and starting my CE chains.
When I got them to around 30/30 they're pretty beastly and pretty much immune to everything. I never had enough +skills to past those numbers by much.
I did a fun little test while my fish was still kickin...
I took off all of the +skills except for I think his Annihilus, so his skills were at 21/21. I noticed that it really didn't slow down a whole lot because I had a really beefy mercenary that was dishing out tons of damage and starting my CE chains.
When I got them to around 30/30 they're pretty beastly and pretty much immune to everything. I never had enough +skills to past those numbers by much.