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Fishymancer Hardcore Help

Discussion in 'Hardcore' started by UberB, Apr 27, 2008.

  1. UberB

    UberB IncGamers Member

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    Fishymancer Hardcore Help

    Okay, after getting utterly bored of softcore pvm, I thought it would be sweet to try Hardcore. This is my first char, he'll be untwinked. I play on a private realm closer to my location since I lag like crap on the bnet "Asia" servers. No tppk'ers there, so I'll be mostly playing in a party.

    I plan on maxing skellies, mastery, dim vision (is this overkill?), and using insight might merc. I like to switch golems around (clay for bosses, fire for cannon fodder) so insight Iron golem, I think, is out. I also think that mages won't be useful without some decent twinked gear.

    Questions: Max block or no? Are points in golem mastery needed for the IG to survive? A few points in revive? Should I max Corpse Explosion? Go for bone armor?
    Will I end up using a Wizardspike, so I can plan ahead and put points into dex?
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2008
  2. ThomasJohnsen

    ThomasJohnsen IncGamers Member

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    Re: Fishymancer Hardcore Help

    I didn't use Dim Vision at all playing untwinked fishy - but to each his own. I used Amp for any monster and Decrep for Bosses. I didn't use golems either - just got some hard hitting skellies fast.


    I didn't go max-block. And about the Golem - I don't know honestly. I put a few points in revive - those CB monsters are nice on occasion. And I definately maxed CE - it works wonders especially in crowded areas. Just one or two points in Bone armor and use +skills from gear (even untwinked that should be +4 or +5 easily). Eventually I think you'll end up using a Wand as FCR isn't really an issue - maybe even an Arm of King Leoric (that is if the Bone Prison trigger dosen't annoy you too much).

    You should know though that I'm by no means an expert - but I did manage to get my fishy to 89 and he isn't dead yet :smiley:.

    Regards Tom



     
  3. Deci

    Deci IncGamers Member

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    Re: Fishymancer Hardcore Help

    Mhmm.. new fishy here.. excellent O_O

    Anyways back to making sense I'd recommend maxing mastery and skellies first but naturally getting a point in all the useful curses as you can get them to help your party (decrep and lower resis do wonders). Then max out corpse explosion.. solo or party this is THE skill due to huge radius when maxed and it only gets better when you get the +skills that necromancers get pretty easily. What could be better than killing monsters before you or your party even see's em? Once those three skills are dealt with you have medium level character with useful curses, nice army of skeles, kickass CE and with the 1-point-wonders, clay golem, summon resist, revives you have efficient tanks, golem to slow the bosses down and merc that gets you alot of first kills for you to start your CE chain reaction going. Nothing can stop you!

    As for where to put the remaining skills.. in the past years after making 100~ or so necromancers I have found using clay golem as scout is much more efficient than using dim vision. Allowing you to spend another 20 points in either making yourself a very strong golem of your choice or more meatshields in form of mages. They may look weak and so but having especially a few to poison your enemies is very good way to stop your enemies from regenerating their health back. Cold ones can get troublesome at times but then again.. you don't need ALL the corpses. Getting bone armor I find kind of ridiculous as you are an overlord and your minions should be taking hits, not you. Same with getting or not getting 75% block, useless! All points to vita, you're not suppose to take hits and if you take a hit or two once in a while your massive life will save you. You can drink potions you know.. ^^

    Played quite a few necros from act 1 norm to act 5 hell without using any items but potions and can say you don't really need wizardspike.. but if you feel like playing very safe then getting wizardspike + homunculus is one hell of a elemental defense add. o.0
     
  4. Tai.

    Tai. IncGamers Member

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    Re: Fishymancer Hardcore Help

    Personally I advocate a completely different tact.

    Don't max block untwinked as you don't know what shield you'll end up with. Do use Bone Armor and synergize it up. The point that you won't get hit is ridiculous, because the one time you do you'll be dead. If you don't believe me check the Fallen Friends thread up top, it has more Summon Necros than any other class...

    My suggestion for pure Summoner:

    Max Skel
    Max Mastery
    1 Pt Revive/Iron Golem/All Curses/Summon Resist/Bone Armor
    10 Point CE (10 gets you 7 yard radius assuming +4 skills which is easy to get with a necro, 20 gets you 10.3, I personally think 7 is enough and the point are better used elsewhere)
    Max Bone Wall (15 points for bone armor as opposed to 10 per bone armor point)

    This will take you until lvl 78 as its 89 points, but should easily take care of everything, and when that Boss Pack of archers turns to you instead of your skels you'll have 360 extra life. An extra 10 points in CE won't stop that eventuality.

    Wizardspike is always good, but in all honesty not usually necessary. With a necro you can use almost any gear, so I tend to load up on skills from the weapon slot and then get resists from shield. Ancients pledge and a couple Orts here and there and you're ready for just about anything.

    As you can see though, any approach with a Necromancer will get you where you're going, you can max CE, max DV (a fun approach solo, one that many of the forumers love), max block, bone armor whatever. It's a highly customizable class as long as you start with max skels/mastery anything goes from there.

    Welcome to real Diablo 2.

    Cheers
    -Tai
     
  5. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    Re: Fishymancer Hardcore Help

    Max CE is a waste, I put in 1 point and go!

    Tai's suggested build is by far the best option IMO.....
     
  6. DaveW

    DaveW IncGamers Member

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    Re: Fishymancer Hardcore Help

    Hey UberB, the suggested skills are all good. My thoughts are pretty much the same (max skellies and mastery). However I would also max CE as well. Thats the one that kills fast. The beauty of the Fishy is he has so many left over points to play with that you can customise him in the later game. A few points in DV for pesky gloams (although running away never hurt anyone either :D) I have to add that Attract is a great crowd control curse. Cast attract then Amp the entire group. Once that first corpse goes down its game over (CE ftw)
    As for Mages they dont work well with the Amp curse and LR really benefits elemental soldiers (which your skellies aint). Just my 2 cents worth.
    BTW my first Guardian was an untwinked Fishy and he's still going strong. Running the WSK. (I play Single Player btw)
    EDIT: clay golems for bosses, fire golem for questing. And make sure you have decrip before fighting Duriel. Decrip pwns his insect a##. :smiley:
     
  7. UberB

    UberB IncGamers Member

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    Re: Fishymancer Hardcore Help

    Corpse Explosion doesn't strike me as a one-point wonder if I'm untwinked. Also, 10 points gives you a 5.6 yard radius, 20 points gives 9 yard radius. Now, before you all start yelling OMG DIMINISHING RETURNS:laugh:, measure it in sheer area covered.

    I hope you all know that area = pi times radius squared :rolleyes:

    Let's assume pi = 3.14

    So at 10 points, you get an 83 yard radius. At 20 points, you get a whopping 254 yard radius. So I think it's very well worth it to max the skill. I think that a Fishy is just one of those builds that doesn't have a fixed skill layout and varies greatly by gear - I'll spread the remaining points around with some in Dim Vision, bone wall and maybe a few points into amp, attract, etc seeing how much I need it.


     
  8. MYK

    MYK Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    Re: Fishymancer Hardcore Help

    The Mana cost also goes up.

    I went to Hell mode with +15 Skills unspent and a slvl 5-8 CE with just one point. The gain I got from maxing out CE wasn't really apparent unless I was mindlessly spamming CE instead of setting up little "CE Packs" with attract/Dim Vision/Amp.

    Most monsters are stuck in groups anyways. If they're not, they quickly die to skeletons ganging up on them.

    That's my "other side of the fence" view on CE.

    My build was maxed CE, Skeletons and DV. His end game playground was Ws K. Maxed CE works wonders in that place. You can use attract and get seriously bunched up monster packs and blow crap away carrying full MF gear. When souls are around I tend to cast attract less and fall back on DV. That way the huge radius will for sure hit almost everything in screen range.

    If one does go the heavy CE way, hunt/cube/pray for your first Sol rune. It makes the whole build that much more lazy - And I like lazy. :grin:

    If anyone wants to see what in-game radius is like, check here: http://mykyoyo.googlepages.com/diablo-radius.jpg


     
  9. UberB

    UberB IncGamers Member

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    Re: Fishymancer Hardcore Help

    EDIT: "So at 10 points, you get an 83 yard radius, at 20 points, you get a whopping 254 yard radius."

    Sorry, I meant AREA, not radius.
     
  10. DaveW

    DaveW IncGamers Member

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    Re: Fishymancer Hardcore Help

    Wow 254 yard radius, that must be the whole of the WSK AND Frozen Tundra :wink:
     
  11. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    Re: Fishymancer Hardcore Help

    After (3) Classic Kings and (3) Guardians as Skelly Necros in 1.10+ all using Bone Spear and 1 point CE and NONE of them dieing I will say again that max CE is a complete waste of points!

    I also made IIRC (2) P&B Spear/Spirit Necros and by far its biggest killer and a massive killer at that was his 1 point CE.

    2-3 CEs is fast and just as effective as 1 max CE, now if you would rather click once for CE over having 19 points to put into Bone Wall or Prison to boost Bone Armor by 285 points which equates to 285 RECASTABLE LIFE than you just go right ahead and do that.

    The last time I played i did kill off a 70 ish Skelly Necro in hell while using a teleport item and forgetting to switch before casting CE and that wont happen again! Poor guy was nearly naked anyway i didnt give him squat and stole his best items for a Sorc so he was depressed and considering suicide anyway! Only big loss was that he was in the Flayer Jungle and so close to that Hell Forge and a potential nice rune.
     
  12. UberB

    UberB IncGamers Member

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    Re: Fishymancer Hardcore Help

    A strong statement there.

    I'll test 1 point CE ingame before decided to allocate more points into it, then.
     
  13. zrk

    zrk IncGamers Member

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    Re: Fishymancer Hardcore Help

    a lot of you seem to be dismissing max block. but ill say this, if you play like me (ie, rushing ahead of your skellies a lot), then going without it would be suicidal, even with bone shield. the 200 points of life sacrificed to get it is worth it (1000 vs 1200 life, hmm). Youll prepare for homunculus with stat points and up until getting it an awesome shield like whitstans will serve well. in laggy situations where your army wanders off somewhere and monsters come after you, or entering a laggy cow portal, being without max block has lost me quite a few skelliemancers :cry: and i would never do it again. might just be because of my low end computer though.

    I also find skellie mages to be really useful, just as meat shields. they are in the back while skellies are smashing things up at the front, so without them there would be a sort of vacuum for monsters to rush through to you.

    Deci i dont know what the hell you are doing but max CE is only useful in Cows if memory serves me right. :wink2: though it is worth slamming a few points in it(5-10) because it has augmenting returns as was said before.

    putting more than 1 point into curses is a joke and is counter productive most of the time since you should ultimately thrive for higher kill speed which all those funky curses wont let you and as Deci said gumby does the job of taking the heat off ranged baddies just as well.
     
  14. Deci

    Deci IncGamers Member

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    Re: Fishymancer Hardcore Help

    zrk! Where did you go? It has been a while ;>

    But anyways, just checked my necros stats and with current equipment (homunc being best part \,,/) I have lvl 32 CE which means 13 yard radius. When I run through WSK I don't even get to see monsters. I have 13 skeles and 13 mages so I have loads of meat shields if enemy even got close to me. My health has never gone even close to 1/2 (1114 life) and this is from someone who rushes 50% of time. Naturally full vita build.
     
  15. UberB

    UberB IncGamers Member

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    Re: Fishymancer Hardcore Help

    Another question: i remember reading somewhere that Burning Souls did physical and lightning damage. So does a Might/Fanat Burning Soul pack do more damage, as well as a convicted pack? And is bone armor able to absorb this physical portion? Because if it does, I'll definitely invest into it.

    Do Gloams have a lit/physical attack as well?
     
  16. MasterMynd

    MasterMynd IncGamers Member

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    Re: Fishymancer Hardcore Help

    If you do use AoKL, make sure you don't have it equipped when "fighting", only when "summoning". From personal experience I can tell you that getting stuck in your own Bone Prison, along with a monster that just hit you, is something to be proud of surviving - if you can do it (hint: terror). But if that monster happens to be a Doll, then you have pretty much no chance of surviving once your merc starts poking at him through the wall.


     
  17. Rekoc

    Rekoc IncGamers Member

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    Re: Fishymancer Hardcore Help


    Again...hes UNTWINKED and its his first HC char...so he has nothing to trade, and nothing to MF with, so why would you waste points in it? IMO find a nice 2 socket head and make rhyme.

    as for merc, might merc of course, Give him any weapon you can...try and get anything with CB...hopefully the one with either slow or CB drops...save up for Obedience in a nice weapon, works wonders.

    Give him Treachery to wear as well...and it will give him hella resist and tons of attack speed.

    and again UNTWINKED = NO BLOCK get 75 at max for wiz spike.

    As a necro you dont need insight, always use clay golem. Most of your killing will be coming from amp + CE when your skeles kill 1 or 2 monsters.

    GL :)



     
  18. Zelator

    Zelator IncGamers Member

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    Re: Fishymancer Hardcore Help

    Zelators guide to play untwinked:

    Step 1) Create your character.
    Step 2) Go lvl to lvl 35-40 (you don't need any twink there..)
    Step 3) Do A5 Q2 and make an Ancients Pledge (48 all resist... nice...)
    Step 4) If you haven't found any necro wands yet, go do countess over & over ti'll she drops the runes for Spirit sword, together with Ancients Pledge, its massive :wink3:
    Step 5) Find a 2 sox helm, do more countess ti'll you can make Lore, 30 light res and 1+ skill for only Ort and Sol.
    Step 6) Get yourself some kinda FRW boots, so it won't be so boring, and find an armour with some res.
    Step 7) Go NM, its here where the fun starts, don't be too careful, as you'll only get yourself bored doing it.

    Dunno if it helped but I was bored so I wrote it (CD-room is broke, can't go on with my necro on USEast :cry:)..
     
  19. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    Re: Fishymancer Hardcore Help

    IIRC at 42 a +2 All Wand can be shopped so easily it isnt funny.......

    Ancient Pledge is fine but 3 diamonds is better if you have them for the resists.

    Max Block is nice, not really over rated by any means, but something that is optional depending on how you play. I have yet to make any Necro with max block even the ones without minions. Actually very few things do I worry about max block on except Sorcs.
     
  20. MYK

    MYK Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    Re: Fishymancer Hardcore Help

    I remember back when I didn't have crap for items and I couldn't wait to equip my 3D shield/Ancient's Pledge.

    Untwinked you won't have a ton of life charms because you shuuld fill out the important resists, so even that little bit of life you get from going vita will help a ton.
     

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