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First time Hybrid Question

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by PallyRanger, Jul 26, 2010.

  1. droid

    droid Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: First time Hybrid Question

    Yeah as long as you have about ~500 life in Hell mode you're ok. You leech back your life so fast, it doesnt matter if your resists are really bad and you take an occasional hit. As long as you're not getting killed in 1 blow, you'll leech your life back to full before you get hit again.

    If it makes you feel any better, your friend's gear actually kinda sucks, BotD and CoH are horrible choices for a MS/Strafe bowazon :) For the price of those (Zod+Ber), you can easily get superior equipment (WF+Fort, or Jah+Ohm for a Faith)
     
  2. Tumbleweed

    Tumbleweed Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: First time Hybrid Question

    I'm not convinced that BOTD is worse than Faith. 30%IAS, extra 70% on-weapon damage, PMH, plentiful dual leech and +30 to all stats (which includes 30 Dx) just might outbalance the +2 all skills and 288% off-weapon ED from Lvl15 Fanaticism at the final count. Keep in mind that with leech and IAS both covered in the weapon slot, you can pick up more extra damage in the helm, glove and rings slots (Guillame, Steelrend/LoH, Raven x2, etc)
     
  3. droid

    droid Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: First time Hybrid Question

    http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293297

    Not saying BotD is bad, of course its a very serviceable bow, just saying that knowledgeable bowazons know better :)

    The numbers tell the story; WF or Faith greatly outshines BotD. The huge IAS isnt needed at all for Strafe. Indestructible obviously does no good. The max damage cant compare to WF at endgame levels, and WF is considerably cheaper than Vex+Zod. WF has ML, and you probably will have LL from Andy's or Stealskull. Plus Zons are the experts at mass rapid kills, making that 50% CtC PNova (which, unsynergized, is just fireworks) more of a headache than its worth, especially if you're trying to run cows.
     
  4. DudSpud

    DudSpud Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: First time Hybrid Question

    I agree with much of what droid says, though I play my hybrids a little differently. I am HC, so I play my hybrids ranged, meaning more emphasis on LF, multi and strafe than CS (bosses only meleed when really drunk...), so no heavy shield is really needed.

    And the idea that amp is the answer for LI/PI is absurd. Gotta head to town to switch out for an WWS. Four times faster than than dealing out 5% physical damage per (hopefully amped) hit.

    One quibble:
    You are right that Venom lasts for 10 frames, but if you're strafing at 3 frames (like we poor SP'ers), then Venom is helpful when strafing 3 or more targets.

    Of course, I don't usually strafe 3 or more targets, because I'm HC and Valk and Waheed can't seem to hold to many at bay, but Venom would help against Frenytaurs - plink, run like hell, plink, run like hell, repeat... Still, for my budget (item and stat point-wise), Lionheart still rules.

    So, I guess you're right to dis the Treachery option.

    Good luck,
    TehSpud



     
  5. Tumbleweed

    Tumbleweed Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: First time Hybrid Question

    I've read it.

    He misses a few points. by comparing the bows on raw damage numbers.

    First, the +30 all stats on BOTD means +30 Dex. It also means +30 Vita, which for a Bowazon is pretty damn important, and +30 ST, which means you can afford another 30 Dex. An extra 60 Dex is 60% off-weapon ED, I believe. Second, instead of having LL from Andy's or Stealskull, with BoTD you can have 15% DS from Guilliame, plus 35% of the nerfed ranger CB which nevertheless still means added damage. None of that factors into this thread's analysis.


     
  6. droid

    droid Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: First time Hybrid Question

    I really dont want to get into a defense of WF vs BotD, but a few quick points - more for paradigmatic reason as to what you need from your bow and why some gear choices that look really good on paper dont actually stack up that well:

    WF average weapon damage at L90: 277
    Perfect 400% BotD Crusader: 195, 70.4% total DPS of WF

    Even with +45-60 extra dex (WF has 10 str 5 dex, though you do save some str from the Hel in BotD), the 15% DS (which, assuming 65% CS, only adds another 5% chance for double damage, which is statistically about 10 average damage more - and its effects are even less if you use Gores and/or Highlords), and the 35% CB (which only really makes a noticeable difference if it triggers in the first few blows), your average practical damage is still not comparable to a WF.

    And again, part of it is the fact that BotD costs Zod+Vex while WF can be had for Ist or less.

    And you can socket your WF with Amn if you really need LL on your bow instead of from Andy's or a LL ring, though you probably want Andy's anyway to hit your IAS.
     
  7. PallyRanger

    PallyRanger Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: First time Hybrid Question

    Well I am currently searching for a WF. Lots and lots of baal runs with my power ranger/zealot hybrid have not gotten anything worth of note.

    If I am packing approx 65 ias would that be OK for a Windy? Or do I need more?

    BTW, thanks for all the debate. Very informative. You guys are more helpful than some of the folks on other char forums.

    My 2nd zon will be setup like such
    Helm: Valk Wing or Shako
    Armor: Peace Runeword Archon Plate
    Weapon: WF(hopefully)
    Weapon 2: Titans
    Belt: String of Ears(not sure on this one yet)
    Boots: Don't have anything great yet...so far just Goblin Toe
    Ring: Manald and 8%LL Carrion
    Ammy: +1 zon skillz rare with other cool mods
    Shield: Spirit Monarch

    20 LF
    20 Strafe
    20 CS
    17 Valk

    Thoughts?
     
  8. Tumbleweed

    Tumbleweed Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: First time Hybrid Question

    If you have WF and String of Ears on, your leech needs are covered, so you should change your choice of rings. You need at least one Ravenfrost, preferably two.

    Come to think of it, String of Ears may or may not be the best choice of belt depending on how much life you'll have and if you can get life leech elsewhere without sacrificing something important. The usefulness of DR depends on how much life you have. For a Zon with 600 life, a perfect 15% DR String of Ears "adds" the equivalent of 90 life which only applies when hit with a physical attack. A "blue" belt with the "Of the Whale" suffix (which can be shopped for) can get 81- 100 life which will apply for physical and elemental damage alike, and it can have a useful prefix such as 24% FHR or resists. Also, I suggest you look for a Razortail, as it gives you extra 33 Pierce and a DX and damage boost. Verdungo's Hearty Cord is the best "safety" belt as it gives huge +Vita AND DR. Nosferatu's Coil- if you can get it- gives DR and 10 IAS.

    You need Knockback somewhere. Either socket your Windforce with a Nef or use Hit Power gloves. If you're Nef-ing your Windforce, try getting 20IAS + 2 Javelin skills rare gloves. Otherwise use Laying of Hands for huge damage to demons, or Lava Gout if you need an AR boost, or Sanders' for IAS and +life.

    Peace is good as the "dirt cheap" armor choice until you get something better, but if you have the runes for Treachery, make it. To hell with +2 skills. Of the cheap-but-good Uniques, Skin of the Vipermagi can give you a massive resists bonus while still providing +1 to all skills. A Spirit Forge with two Jewels of Fervour makes an excellent mid-game armor. Ultimately, you want Chains of Honor, of course.

    An interesting idea for the Javelin side of things would be using a x4 Lightning Facets Monarch instead of Spirit, although it's probably prohibitively expensive for you.

    Boots- Goblin Toe is a bad choice. War Travelers or Waterwalk would probably suit you best as a "balanced" hybrid choice. Silkweave suits the Javelin side of the tree best, Gores are great for Strafe. Failing that, use boots from Aldur, Immortal King or Sanders sets (Sanders drops all the time).
     
  9. PallyRanger

    PallyRanger Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: First time Hybrid Question

    OK T-Weed,
    I got another for you. I found a Lycander's bow last night and put it on my zon. She has lvl 29 strafe, 27 lf, 27 cs, and I haven't looked at Valk(but she casts so much with Peace I dont think I need to put any points there). I seem to be killing a little bit quicker than I do with my Nef'ed Eaglehorn. Is it worth nef'ing the Lyc's bow and going with that?
    Here is new gear(for now):
    Helm: Valk Wing
    Armor: Peace Dusk Shroud
    Weap 1: Lycanders' Bow/Eaglehorn
    Weap 2: Titan's
    Gloves: Magnus Skin(until I can find Lava's)
    Belt: Goldwrap
    Boots: Sanders (until I find War's, Gores, or Waters)
    Rings Carrion and Manald
    Ammy: Still rare +1 Zon Skillz rare w/ 3%LL (found a rarewith +2 Zon skills, life leech, and ar boost that i will be using once I grow up some more).

    On another note...any thoughts on a merc? I got rid of my act 3 merc in norm so I am in search of one.
     
  10. Tumbleweed

    Tumbleweed Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: First time Hybrid Question

    I don't know why you're killing quicker with Lycander's. Damage wise, it's inferior to Eaglehorn and has no ITD. I would advise you to stay with Eaglehorn for now.

    Are you sure you still can't change Peace for something better?

    Goldwrap is an okay choice if it helps you hit an IAS breakpoint. If it doesn't, put that String of Ears back on and drop Carrion for a Ravenfrost or something.

    Sanders' gloves are a better choice than Magnus unless you are in a dire need for AR for Strafe.


    And... you're only beginning to wonder about the merc NOW???

    If you have the runes for Faith, get a Rogue with Fire Arrow NOT Cold Arrow. Cold Rogue's arrows have only half the range of the Fire Rogue's.

    If you don't have the runes for Faith, get a Might merc (Act II Nightmare) and gear him up for pure survival. I would suggest the following:

    Helm: Vampire Gaze. Tal Rasha's Mask can be used but the Gaze is much better.
    Armor: Either Shaftstop or Treachery.
    Weapon: Pride if you have the runes. Failing that, Reaper's Toll socketed with a Shael if you have one. If you have neither, use a Kelpie Snare socketed with an Amn. With 75% Slow Target and +life per level, that stick is worth its weight in gold both for merc survival and for immobilizing bosses.


     
  11. PallyRanger

    PallyRanger Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: First time Hybrid Question

    Not sure on the Lycander's either but I will go back to Eaglehorn.

    I haven't found anything better than my Peace. Liek I said, it's all self found gear and I don't follow bots or anything like that. So the odds of me finding what I am looking for are slim but hey there's hope.

    Don't have a Raven yet. Still looking. I do have Sander's gloves though so I will swap them and see how it goes.

    I am just gettin to my merc now because I have been busy trying to lvl and equip my zon. About the only thing I have that you listed is Tals Mask. The best pike/polearm I have found has been Arioc's so I am still in the hunt.

    Thanks for the help man. You have been a good sport putting up with my zon noobness. I appreciate it.
     
  12. Tumbleweed

    Tumbleweed Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: First time Hybrid Question

    Arioc's Needle is pretty good, assuming your merc can wear it. Until he can, put an Insight polearm on him (make it in the biggest damage polearm you can find). Crescent Moon (Shael+Um+Tir will also be good if you have an Um to spare. The Static Field on striking is awesome.
     
  13. PallyRanger

    PallyRanger Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: First time Hybrid Question

    Thanks for the help man.
    Merc can't wear it yet but I found some lower unique poleaxe that he is using for now. Found a set of Gores for myself too.
    Haven't found an Um yet. Best so far was Lem. Insight is out of the question for now until I find a good 4 sock polearm. He is wearing a Glad's Bane I got while in Act 3.
    The Peace armor is getting annoying. I am looking to build a Fort out of the wire fleece I found when I get the runes.
    Right now I am machine gunning everything with strafe then following up with volleys of Lightning, then rinse and repeat. So far doing ok.
    Thanks for the help.
     

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