First/Safe Char that's not a summonancer?

[stillnotking]

SP is far different

After 76, OK, but from 25 to 76, the Hdin is at least as good, MF-wise... And I guess my idea of the market is wrong as I am SP, where the Soul cage is a little trickiy to get.

OK, I definitely see where you're coming from there, I play a lot of SP as well and I would never make a char that relies on completing a set. On BNet, though, I remain convinced that an IK barb is the best starting char, for the reasons I've laid out as well as the fact that they are usually more welcome on Baal runs (well, at least ONE barb is always welcome). This means it's a snap to get to level 76; heck, in many ways I don't even think of the game as <i>starting</i> until the high 70s, since it goes so fast up to that point.

 

[WrongdayJ]

. . .it's a snap to get to level 76; heck, in many ways I don't even think of the game as starting until the high 70s, since it goes so fast up to that point.

Man, I wish I felt that way. There a LOT of Diablo II to be played just to get a HC to level 70. To keep them there and go on is even more of a feat. Props to you, bro.

 

[DudSpud]

This means it's a snap to get to level 76; heck, in many ways I don't even think of the game as <i>starting</i> until the high 70s, since it goes so fast up to that point.

Wow.

A "snap" to get an untwinked Conc/WW IK set barb to the upper 70's (presumably when you collect the gear)? Bnet sounds like such a wonderfully helpful and cooperative place where Soul Cages fall from the sky. I guess this is especially true in HC.

Do you play public games? Should I really venture back on line? Or am I just a n00b, someone whose skills are inversely proportional to his age (I was born around the time of the Tet offensive)? Someone who, like WrongdayJ, spends a lot of time getting untwinked meleers from 0-70?

Fine, I am a n00b. So take my advice - an untwinked, dual Spirit Hdin is safer, easier, and cheaper than an IK WW/Conc barb. For n00bs like me, at least.

DudSpud

 

[Oddballzor]

Dual Element trapping build
--------------------------
(...)
With good gear and/or high levels, I'd recommend the dual element variation.

So which stuff that sin should wear except those 'nonames' you posted (i mean the ultimate/goal gear):

+6 claws (shopped shadow skills blade talons)
+2 armor (treachery)
+2 amulet (a magic or rare +2 sin)
+3 torch (if you permit yourself to trade for them - they are really quite cheap)
+2 hat (circlet)

*oddball

 

[Quentin]

I know people will disagree with me, but I say Bonemancer. I have made three of them in Single Player and I'm currently going on into Hell with mine on USEast. They use curses to keep monsters away, have extra protection from Bone Armor, and can use Bone Wall and Prison if they are really unsure of themselves. If you're interested in playing with me, add me:

*Archeaon

Even though you probably started a character, good luck!

How should a Bonemancer be as the first HC character?

Put as many points as possible in bone skills
1 in CE, and forget the poison tree
but should I put 1 point in all the curse skills?
should I go for revives? or only Clay Golem+Golem Mastery+Summon Resist?

moreover, should I pump points into DEX for max block? or simply leave DEX base?
should I put points into Energy for Mana?

 

[rachil0]

That original post sort of slipped under the radar, but I totally agree that a bonemancer is a great starter character. Here's a little layout:

1 bone armor
1 ce
20 bone wall
1 clay golem, 1 golem mastery
20 spear
1 revive, 1 summon resist, 1 skeleton mastery
20 bone prison
20 spirit

I'd invest in them in roughly that order. Pump bonewall at low levels to enhance your bone armor. Then put points in spear / wall at the same time to pump up your offense and defense. At some point (mid NM) I would work down the summon tree to get revives for some shields to hide behind. I'd max spirit last, spear is more useful in general but spirit is nice for tagging fast bosses in hell. Prison and wall are great investments, because they improve your damage and your bone armor absorbtion (which will get up into 600-700 pretty easily - recastable HP against physical attacks).

I've tried it both ways, and I would skip max block. Between revives and bone armor you are guarded against most physical attacks (but watch out for piercing spearcats in hell).

Some cheapish gear to shoot for:
weapon: spirit crystal sword or white (+8 spear) wand
helmet: lore, pcrown, bling circlet
amulet: +1 all, +2 all, +3 pnb (gamble, or craft caster amulets)
rings: +mana and resists
gloves: magefists or trangs gloves for fcr, or bloodfists for fhr/life
boots: rares with resists, waterwalks
belt: rare with resists, fhr, life
shield: rhyme in a totem with good staffmods (pick em all up), spirit monarch takes a lot of strength but is pretty good for this build too, splendor in a good totem, diamonded totem
armor: vipermagi rules if you can get, bone is good but too expensive, stealth is a good bare minimum
merc: insight rules, put in on a might/prayer/HF merc. they've all got their own pros and cons

75 FCR is a good breakpoint to hit.

 

[rachil0]

Forgot to mention curses - get dim vision, decrep and amp. Use DV on ranged attackers, decrep on melee foes and amp em all when you start blowing things up with CE.

Lifetap is also optional for bailing out your merc. A lot of people like attract on bonemancers but I've never invested the time to learn how to use it properly.

 

[Quentin]

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=128348
is a LF/PJ zon good as the first HC char?

 

[DudSpud]

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=128348
is a LF/PJ zon good as the first HC char?

It isn't the worst: strong ranged attack, extra-buff minion, and a ranged attack for primary immunes. But I find that the Poison just takes too long to kill LI's for my taste.


Good luck,
DudSpud

 

[MYK]

Forgot to mention curses - get dim vision, decrep and amp. Use DV on ranged attackers, decrep on melee foes and amp em all when you start blowing things up with CE.

Lifetap is also optional for bailing out your merc. A lot of people like attract on bonemancers but I've never invested the time to learn how to use it properly.

To echo and add to this post, DV is really a lifesaver at lower levels before you get bone spear and other useful killing skills.

My character was only in SC, but he didn't die or even hardly get hit on his way through act 1 and on to Radamant. For extra cool points use a bow at lower levels and snipe with your act1 merc. It's cheesy, but you'll never have an easier time playing.

 

[d00m2k]

I love my starting trapper:
20 FB
20 Sweb
20 CBS
20 LS
20 DS
1pt in BoS, MB

I've never found the need for a shadow minion. Between my speed, the traps around corners, my merc, mindblast stunning, converted monsters and cloak of shadows, nothing comes within a screen of me.

For bosses, trapper is slow because traps = minions, minions = 1/10 damage to bosses (I think it's 1/10).

The way to take down bosses around 50% faster is to lay 5 LS traps, throw a Sweb, FB FB FB FB, Sweb, FB FB FB, re-lay traps, Sweb, FB FB FB FB, etc. I do not think Sweb or FB are affected by the reduced minion damage to bosses.

 

[billobob]

For an untwinked wind druid, is the might or holy freeze merc better? Also, is max block recommended?

 

[PhatTrumpet]

For bosses, trapper is slow because traps = minions, minions = 1/10 damage to bosses (I think it's 1/10).

If this were true, then this feat would have never been possible (skip here for his last post... so far).

The only reason it went slow for you is because you probably didn't have any Crushing Blow on your Merc. Also the best trap for bosses is maxed, synergized CBS. You just have to learn how to place them (i.e. don't namelock, rather cast them right at the boss' feet).

For an untwinked wind druid, is the might or holy freeze merc better? Also, is max block recommended?

Might does nothing for you, so go with Holy Freeze. As for block, it's a matter of personal preference but I'd definitely go for block.

 

[d00m2k]

You're correct. Hireling damage is 1/4 to bosses. Hirelings take 10x the damage from bosses. The reason it's always slow for me is that on B.net or in Single Player, I play on 8ppl games, solo.

I am skeptical of the argument that CBS > LS. Very consistently, when I solo 8ppl games, LS is about 10 - 15% faster than CBS vs. bosses. I know how to place the CBS traps so that 90% of the bolts hit, but very rarely do all 11 bolts hit.

Under perfect placement, fully synergized slvl 40 traps (5):
CBS: 29700
LS : 22445

However, perfect is far from reality. On average, I would say 8 - 9 hit with very good placement.
CBS: 21600 - 24300

But again, this is assuming Baal never moves. Baal almost always will teleport , and enjoys moving a few steps. This requires replacement of traps when LS would simply re-target. This means I'm losing out on recasting Sweb (1831dmg/sec) and Fireblast (10,000dmg/sec), which skews the scenario into LS's favor.

If you had a boss that never moved, I would agree, CBS > LS. But in reality, LS > CBS for Baal.

P.S. When running untwinked, grab a lower resist wand and use it on mobs with 50%+ LR, and all bosses. I think you can buy one from a vendor, if not I've found a few so they can't be that difficult to find.