First/Safe Char that's not a summonancer?

[kingdryland]

If you have troubles with elemental zealots in iron maiden infested areas,just use your fists to attack.

 

[WrongdayJ]

I like to have a Bow or Crossbow on the switch and go into Ranger mode in the CS. Then switch back to the melee (for the shield) and thump on Big D. :grin:

Actually. . .a Ranger is another KILLER build to consider. But I think they are a little more equipment dependant than a standard elemental Zealot.
For instance- I like using a razortail belt and the Demon Machine repeating crossbow on Ranger builds for the pierce effect.

 

[DudSpud]

I agree with you.

Whoa. Wait a minute... did someone just concede a point to another poster? How very... adult. Makes me very happy I found this forum. Sure, we disagree about our preferences, but I think we both agree that they are just that: preferences. And there's no accounting for taste.

All the pulse aura synergies are available right off the bat.

Not to bust your balls (metaphorically speaking, of course), but the Res F/C/L are available at 1/6/12, respectively. Still, your point that the Synergies and damage for an elemental zealot kick in sooner that the lvl 18 Conc (vs 12 Zeal) and lvl 24 BO (though Bash/Stun are lvl 1/12, they are more gravy after other skill points are spent in the build, and Sac for Zeal is lvl 1) are on the money: an elemental Zealot starts kickin' it sooner that a Conc Barb, and overall probably kicks it faster, though less safely, at least as I play the game.

Really though- both builds have their merits and I think either one would make a great HC build.

To quote a wise SPF sage, "I agree with you." In the end, it's a matter of individual style.

DudSpud

 

[Hector]

Amazon. Lightning Fury/Charged Strike based.

Reasons:
- Has a powerful minion (Valk);
- Ranged attack;
- Item independant, get some Mana after Kill items and Replenishing Javelins and you'll do fine; once you make an Insight for merc, you're unstoppable;
- Uses a shield all time (max block, and adding Dex helps your damage/leech by a little bit) and has access to D/A/E for extra damage reduction.
- Huge lightning damage and fair physical damage as backup.
- Easy to Level up (1-17 is a breeze, just melee/Jab/throw; 18-30 is doable with Charged Strike, 30 and after, you have Lightning Fury +Valk).

 

[mntl]

Strafe zons with knockback and some form of slow are fairly safe and can play anywhere if you get some form of amp (atmas or wws etc). They are gear dependant but most of the major things are not required until hell, even then you can get by with stuff purchased with pgems. It may not be hammerdin fast but you can solo hell with a non-upped riphook shaeled, nos coil and atmas ammy, cleglaws gloves for knock back are nice also and crafting kb gloves is fun alone the way. There are a million different combinations, just try to have a maxed valk, some form of knockback, decent straffe speed and enough leach to keep things full and you can play alone anywhere. Wisps are really the only issue, but placing valk/decoy and scouting ahead with straffe makes it no big deal. If you play on east and want a demonstration of a real simple build that has alot of interchangeability in gear (rares are great) and can solo anywhere on a budget and with some style, mssg me. All the builds mentioned here will get the job done though.

*mntl

 

[Socialism]

I was incorrect with my ~20 bolts, it's actually 11- as you pointed out.
However.

CBS: 5 traps times 11 bolts, 4-532 each = 44-5852
LS: 5 traps times 1 shot, 8-5362
CBS: 4-708 times 11 bolts = 44-7788
LS: 8-5362
Even at low levels I think FB is better though. At lvl 15, you could have 5 CBS traps doing 7 bolts of 1-21 damage (4 CBS, 6 SW, 6 FB), that cost 5*13=65 mana to drop. They'll shoot five waves and expire, leading to 35-735 damage, total, if every bolt connects with something.

Assuming 3 pts into fireblast, 20 into shock web, cbs, ls, ds, +10 skills:
CBS is 274 avg dmg * 11 bolts * 10 shots = 30,140 damage
LS is 2677 avg dmg * 10 shots = 26,770 damage

Multiply both by 5 to figure out what your maximum trap volley can do:
CBS: 150,700
LS: 133,850

That's over the duration of the 5 traps of course, for simplicity's sake - not recasting (assume it's vs a slowed/decrepified Baal or something, one of the tangibly "larger" monsters - because CBS shines vs graphically larger bodies) -- all bolts hit because PROPER positioning of CBS accomplishes this easily.

This is with 3 points into Fire Blast. CBS is situational. Use vs Large/single monsters - i.e. bosses, thus the nomicker: Bosskiller. LS is greatly superior to 'general' pvm play - true - but CBS is a faster killer, outclassing LS by 20k in average damage vs single targets.

Put 15 into FireBlast (what is accomplishable by level 95 with 1 pt into all the pertinent shadow skills... I don't truly expect anyone to hit 99), and the numbers show:
CBS: 180950 avg dmg
LS: 133850 avg dmg

Clearly, 46k more average damage has to be worth something in the long run vs Baal.

 

[stillnotking]

Operative word is "first"

Your first char needs to be cheap, meaning effective MF'er in Hell with gear that can be acquired for pgems. The first char is a bootstrap for later chars.

To me there is no question but that the best first HC char is a WW/Conc Barb wearing the IK set. Max BO first (for Conc effectiveness until your WW is up to speed), then WW, then Mastery, then Shout for the extra zerk damage (1 point in zerk should go without saying). Socket IK stuff with ptopazes/mf jewels as appropriate. Run the Pit until you have enough gear for a decent hammerdin.

I used the above method and believe me, it works very well. I doubt there is a much better way to hit the ground running in HC.

 

[squiggle]

hmmm I've just started my Frost Zealot at lvl 11 atm.

I was wondering wether to max block?
If needed i could just use a 30/20 bone sheild until i mf something with high block. I think max block would be best as i have crap all life leach if most of my damage is elemental.

What'cha think? lol That word makes no sense...

 

[wakiki]

Definitely go max block with a Hammerdin -- ignoring their most useful benefit (Holy Shield) would be blasphememy! =]

 

[squiggle]

Lol woh a bit ot But

My sc Hammerdin Is called Blashpemy But i spelt it wrong >.< Anyways...

</OT>

 

[DudSpud]

Sorry, I can't let this go...

Your first char needs to be cheap, meaning effective MF'er in Hell with gear that can be acquired for pgems. The first char is a bootstrap for later chars.

To me there is no question but that the best first HC char is a WW/Conc Barb wearing the IK set.

You title your post as "The operative word is first", talk about the need for cheap, and then suggest a full IK barb? Is the full set really that cheap? Can you buy it with the pgems you acquire before you reach the lvl to use the pieces (which might be easy enough as I agree a Conc Barb is a pretty safe melee HC starter)? And a melee character really is, in your opinion, the best first HC MF'er? Better and faster and cheaper than a dual Spirit Hdin with an Insight merc? "No question?"

Max BO first (for Conc effectiveness until your WW is up to speed), then WW, then Mastery, then Shout for the extra zerk damage (1 point in zerk should go without saying).

I guess you mean for only 1 pt in Conc, because max BO, WW, Mastery, and Shout is 80 already without the pre-reqs. You can really get to Hell untwinked with only 1 pt in Conc? You must have skills far beyond mine.

I used the above method and believe me, it works very well. I doubt there is a much better way to hit the ground running in HC.

You mention that the point of this first character is to get the itamz to build a "decent hammerdin." I bet you could accumulate the runes, items, and/or pgems to make a dual Spirit Hdin faster than a fulll IK set barb, and the former would be far more effective an MF'er. Then build your no str 'Nigmadin with HotO, HoZ, etc.

@ squiggle - As for max block on the Frostie - yes, definitely, but don't sweat it at lvl 11. A Deflecting bone shield in A2 and a coupla-five pts in Holy Shield will work wonders through Norm. Even 75% CtB means you can be 1hit 25% of the time if your life is too low. To me, I only worry about ensuring max block when I am likely to be often in quick succession, which means unexpected mobs, which is usually more of a late NM-onward issue. Besides, with 10 in HShield and moderate dex investment, you should be able to get max block on most paly shields.

DudSpud

 

[squiggle]

Ok thanks. I have decent sheild for him now. Thanks mntl

Lvl 18 atm And just entered a2.

 

[NecromanSassin]

Squiggle, what's your account name? I have a guy who is in Act 2 also.

 

[squiggle]

*theafmanhc

I've just got the cube

I also Have one in act 3 and one in the end of act 1 lol

 

[NecromanSassin]

Ohh, nevermind, I already have you added lol.

I'm Archeaon you might remember me.

 

[Aldragon]

*theafmanhc

I've just got the cube

I also Have one in act 3 and one in the end of act 1 lol

I chanted you a few days ago with alles remember?

AL

 

[stillnotking]

IK barbs

You title your post as "The operative word is first", talk about the need for cheap, and then suggest a full IK barb? Is the full set really that cheap? Can you buy it with the pgems you acquire before you reach the lvl to use the pieces (which might be easy enough as I agree a Conc Barb is a pretty safe melee HC starter)? And a melee character really is, in your opinion, the best first HC MF'er? Better and faster and cheaper than a dual Spirit Hdin with an Insight merc? "No question?"I guess you mean for only 1 pt in Conc, because max BO, WW, Mastery, and Shout is 80 already without the pre-reqs. You can really get to Hell untwinked with only 1 pt in Conc? You must have skills far beyond mine.

Err... of course the IK set is easy to get, you can get the whole thing for 20 pgems or less, which should be no problem for a patient trader by the time he gets to level 76. The only part that's expensive at all is the armor. I got 2 pieces for free. Better and faster and cheaper than dual-Spirit hammerdin? When you count Find Item and the MF% on the IK Set, yes, it's better; faster, I'm not really sure but it depends if you factor in the potential time loss due to char death (a well-played, max-BO-first conc barb is almost immune to death, but the same is hardly true of an untwinked hammerdin); cheaper, well, again it depends on the hammerdin's gear but the IK set is definitely cheap.

You can't play an untwinked conc barb through to Hell? Seriously? You do know that BO gives a huge damage bonus to conc, right? Get a bonesnap and you're ready to go. You don't even have to upgrade or shael it, really, to get through NM.

 

[squiggle]

I chanted you a few days ago with alles remember?

AL

Yeh i think i remember. Thanks for that

Summoner is 36


And going to make strength runeword for merc for crushing blow. Hoping to find a bsnap for Iron golem .

Nm andy drops to slow And i forgot to get quest drop thing. DOH!

 

[Brave_turtle]

I was suggesting Sin but now that I think I got a way better idea.

Make a sorc and MF in normal/nm for mass Pgem and Ral's and nice cheap items. Try to trade or get Wizardspike.

Then put 1 pts ES, max telek and tele baal for private channels! Teler in private channel always gets baal drops.

Not only you gain in items but you gain their respect.

 

[DudSpud]

Err... of course the IK set is easy to get, you can get the whole thing for 20 pgems or less, which should be no problem for a patient trader by the time he gets to level 76. The only part that's expensive at all is the armor. I got 2 pieces for free. Better and faster and cheaper than dual-Spirit hammerdin? When you count Find Item and the MF% on the IK Set, yes, it's better;

After 76, OK, but from 25 to 76, the Hdin is at least as good, MF-wise... And I guess my idea of the market is wrong as I am SP, where the Soul cage is a little trickiy to get.

...faster, I'm not really sure but it depends if you factor in the potential time loss due to char death (a well-played, max-BO-first conc barb is almost immune to death, but the same is hardly true of an untwinked hammerdin); cheaper, well, again it depends on the hammerdin's gear but the IK set is definitely cheap.

Yes, it is true that a 20 BO conc barb is sturdy, but none of my characters dies more than once. Ever. And a dual-Spirit Hammerdin is far faster than a Conc Barb, even after he reaches lvl 76 and swithches to being an IK WW. HShield adds to the defense, and the stats req are minimal, making for a lot more vit. And cheaper? All you need is 2 Amn's, a 4 os Sword and a 4 os Paly shield (which is easy - they can all get 4 os). The rest of the gear is gravy, even Insight is necessary as you can Redeem what you need. Dual Spirit means +4 all skills, 50-70 FCR, 35 L/C/P res min (not counting the inherent res on the shield), +44 vit, and nearly 200 mana. For 2 Amns. As early as level 25.

You can't play an untwinked conc barb through to Hell? Seriously? You do know that BO gives a huge damage bonus to conc, right? Get a bonesnap and you're ready to go. You don't even have to upgrade or shael it, really, to get through NM.

I have Guardian'ed an untwinked Conc Barb in SP (OK, it was my second attempt - lost the first one (Conqueror) to a hidden OK IM while leveling to 75 in NM WSK). By untwinked, I mean I couldn't just "get a Bonesnap," only what I found. What I meant was that with 20 BO, 20 WW, 20 Mastery, and 20 Shout, getting 20 in Conc is tough, so you have to rely on fewer points there, so I thought you were suggesting only 1 pt in Conc, which is what I would consider tough.

DudSpud