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First High Lvl Hc Sorc Dueler

Discussion in 'Hardcore' started by Jules, Mar 28, 2005.

  1. Jules

    Jules IncGamers Member

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    First High Lvl Hc Sorc Dueler

    Ok so im mostly new to the whole High level dueling scene. Im trying to work myself in this category and i have created a Cold Sorceress. Im debating over many things and i could use some suggestions. I suppose there will be some wondering, why ask here? Reason: There are many expierienced high lvl duelers and duelers in general who browse this forum.

    Anyhoo, my sorceress is now lvl 66 im leveling her. As for gear wise i have 10 cold skillers around 3 with 15+ life. Im debating a few things with her i will list them.

    A) Shield- Storm or Spirit?

    B) Max block or All Vitality? ( Ofcourse dont suggest spirit, and max block lets be realistic )

    C) Helm- 15/-4 Faceted NightWing or Um Shako

    D) Armor- CoH--Blizz Ormus faceted--or something else?

    Anyways i basicly am clueless on all of those and also debating what to do on the Boot situation im deciding between sandstorm trek waterwalks and marrows.
     
  2. Aerath

    Aerath IncGamers Member

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    No block = deeds imo.
    So that's one vote for SS/Max Block ;)

    Lean towards Shako, but could be wrong here...

    With armour, lean towards Bliz Ormus.
     
  3. Matt

    Matt IncGamers Site Pal

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    hard to win a duel with a sorc, since their damage is almost entirely negatable with resist+absorb. If you are dueling someone, you SHOULD count on them having dual ravens, max resist (depending on the build, 90 resist) as a minimum.... I know I build a level 45 anti-mage sin which could take a fully synergized blizzard from a high level sorc, and an ice blast or two as well. The point is, versus a prepared opponent (which thanks to maphack, and just because its easy to figure out for the few who dont use it), people WILL be ready.

    If my 45 sin can take a blizzard, I'm guessing a high level barb can too, only difference is he can kill you a hell of a lot quicker than me ;)

    I guess I think its one of those builds where you might get a couple ears (damage IS very high) but not many (since its pretty easy to avoid with resist+asorb) but dont count on being an unstoppable dueler.

    Good luck :)

    -Matt
     
  4. Jules

    Jules IncGamers Member

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    Well, i don't plan on being unstoppable i just want to get a few high level duels and look pretty godly. Just to say that i have been there and done that. I plan to get this sorc to a high level and i plan on having resist/absorb gear based on my opponent. The funny thing is the guy who i am copying this build off of, went with SS and not max block...i was quite puzzled by this he said for the resists though ( it was um'd ) so i think for sure im going stormshield just not sure if i want to waste some points into dex if i will only be facing casters ( or if melee will rarely get a piece of me ) i figure even with max block i will get torched at melee range, so why bother with max block.
     
  5. Matt

    Matt IncGamers Site Pal

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    You will want max block... why? If you mess up without it, you will be damn lucky to survive. Melee duelers will all be packing ridiculous damage with their EBOTD's and whatnot, Basically, gives you a 3/4th chance of NOT dying when you screw up. (and you will, nobody's a perfect dueler, its made harder by the fact a lot of them will have enigma on)

    Say you get tele-whirled by a barb... do you want to take all 8 hits or whatever it is, or take 2... I dont know about you, but I'll sacrifice a couple hundred life and take 2 instead of 8. Chargers? If one hits you, I think you're probably toast... unless you block it, and drop a blizzard at your feet, then hes toast.

    Just some examples...

    -Matt
     
  6. HelzCaretaker

    HelzCaretaker IncGamers Member

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    as for boots I'd say marrows, nice stats + being able to prison your opponents is quite nice. Its useless against another teleporter but vs melee you can get some easy ears that way. As for absorb being a nullifier for cold, the massive -cold resist is hard to go against unless you are built specifically for killing cold sorc's. If a typical dueler has 40% absorb and 75% resist (not over), then with mastery and high dmg, you will basically rip through that resist and absorb. On the other hand if they are cruel and like me, they will probably have 250%+ cold resist in hell + absorb so you'd be screwed on that.
     
  7. shertown

    shertown IncGamers Member

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    thawing potion > you
     
  8. MoUsE_WiZ

    MoUsE_WiZ IncGamers Member

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    Here's how I'd build a pvp sorc:
    +3 ormus
    Wizzy
    Arach
    20% FCR crafted ammy = 110% fcr (needed!!)
    Or if you can't get a good 20% FCR ammy go with viper and a good +2/10% ammy. A 9 fpc teleport = a dead sorc.
    2x soj/2x Wisp/2x raven/2x dwarf depending on obvious factors
    Blood Fist
    30% FHR / res/stat/whatever boots (sorc bp is 60% iirc)
    SS as primary shield, black oak probably if you feel like being cheesey against other cold sorks, Spirit possibly vs everything that isn't cold/phys. Spirit depends if you can think of a good way to deal with the fact that it requires 35 more str than the SS does. I can't, but it's not my character. The point is SS vs barbs is more important than Spirit vs Javazon or whatever else.

    The only other variation on the above I can think of is dropping arach for tgods, which then requires devoting 2 rings to FCR, or viper + 20% ammy + 1 ring.

    Also, you might want to consider dropping some skillers for some vitas. I'm of the impression that the way it works is either a 5k blizzard either kills a player as well as a 7k blizzard or they're both equally negated to a point where you won't kill a person who doesn't want to die. I could be wrong on this point, but that's how it seemed to work with my trapper from last season.

    *disclaimer* This build is based on what I know of high level SvB/SvS/SvBowzon softcore dueling from 1.09 (which is enough) and then applying 1.10 items to it. I myself wouldn't try a 1.10 pvp sorc because of the way CM works now as opposed to how it worked in 1.09. In 1.09 orbers were good because you couldn't stack CR against it and (on softcore anyways) stacking dual raven+black oak = cheesey as slow and generally not used.
     
  9. parkerbsb

    parkerbsb IncGamers Member

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    Well I responded to this in the sorc forum thinking it was not HC so the info there may be a little off.

    First off I will say in HC you'd WANT esheild, so Bliz is really not the way to go.
    Secondly, even with 200%FCR you can't always get away from people so it's better to have a good defence (esp in HC). So that being said disregard what equipment I said in the sorc thread.
    Shako Um'd (or Ber'd if you can afford)
    Mosers (Upgraded and 2 pdiamond) IMO > SS,
    Sandstorm trecks, good str and you NEED FHR, a volcano druid will own you either way... but you have a chance to get out faster with FHR.
    Arach/frostburns for sure
    Weapon, I think HoTo > Fathom for cast and life, you loose out on damage but survivability is more important.
    Armor CoH for DR, Resists, and skills
    rings/ammy heres where you patch up your FCR and get more mana, I'd suggest 20%FCR/100+mana rings if you can find 'em, and a ammy with +2 sorc skills any fcr > 5, mana and any other decent stats <-rare to find.

    There you have max dr, should be close to max resists (if not get some sc's with resistance) and still deal decent damage. Skill placement should be similar
    26 Orb and pre reqs
    20 synergy
    20 CM
    20 TK
    4 teleport (1 + pre-reqs)
    rest in warmth.

    Remember mana is life so any thing with +mana or increase max mana % is a good thing.
    The resists still help out with what damage gets through the sheild :)
     
  10. MoUsE_WiZ

    MoUsE_WiZ IncGamers Member

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    Oh, when I say 20% ammy in the above post I actually mean 15%+ =p

    But why I make a second post instead of just editing is because I have a question to parker:
    Where do you propose that these 20% FCR rings come from?
    I don't recall EVER seeing a 20% fcr ring crafted, magical, or rare. Excluding of course lame occy/wizzy rings I can't think of any way of getting a number other than 10% on a ring... And reading that statement as 20% total on the rings rather than 20% each I'm counting 85% fcr in your suggested build which makes a negative amount of logic so I assume that's not what you mean unless I'm just not seeing another 20% in your listed gear somewhere =/
     
  11. OldMan_Quiet

    OldMan_Quiet IncGamers Member

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    I'd say get a merc (A2 with Holy Freeze//Defiance) to take some hits just in case.

    As for build, I'd say:
    20 Orb
    20 Ice Bolt
    20 Cold Mastery
    1 Point in energy shield
    1 Point in all armors
    1 Point in required

    This requires 74 skill points total, so I'd say pump some points into shiver armor / warmth

    Total Resists = STORM 25 lightning 65 cold shield + ANNI 10-20 all resists + FATHOM 25-40 lightning + TREK 40-70 poison + VIPER 20-35% all resists


    (NOTE THESE RESISTS ARE WITH THE MINIMUM POSSIBLE & WITH +35 FROM ANYA, AND THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE HOTO)
    Without Mara's and hoto (+ worst can be)
    fire = 65
    lightning = 115
    poison = 105
    cold = 140

    if your gear was PERFECT it would be
    WITH MARA +30 RESISTS (without hoto)
    fire = 120
    lightning = 185
    poison = 190
    cold = 185

    And thats WITHOUT calculating UM rune, so your resists should be fine

    GEAR
    Anni + 10 Cold charms & life charms with resists (so you don't have to lean towards resist gear)
    Stormshield faceted (if you can afford) /or/ Um
    Nightwings faceted (again, if you can afford) /or/ Um (I'd lean towards Pruby though)
    Fathom faceted /or/ some jewel I suppose // OR HOTO for resists (less damage though)
    2 SoJs // Ravens, wisps, dwarfs for backup (whatever floats your boat :p)
    Upgraded Magefists
    Sandtreks (poison resists)
    Upgraded Viperskin - Um / Pruby
    I'd say MARAS AMMY for resists
    Arachs

    Total Fastcast = 90% without hoto // with hoto= 110%

    Resists in hell (without hoto)
    20 Fire
    85 Lightning
    90 Poison
    85 Cold

    With 2 sojs:
    821-857 Frozen Orb
    225% Cold Mastery
    138% Warmth (1 points in) (Not calculating +2 AMMY and ARACHS)
    59% Energy Shield (1 points in) (Not calculating +2 AMMY and ARACHS)
    159% Bonus Armor Shiver Cold Length 20 Damage 70-84 (Without putting more then 1 point in) (Not calculating +2 AMMY and ARACHS)


    Damage is calculated WITHOUT -enemy resists +% to cold damage

    So only thing you have to worry about is life and dex... fire is going to be your lowest resist, so dont duel any fire based characters :p

    Your dex will be pretty decent once your fully equiped, the + dex from nightwings & anni.

    You might want to switch some of these UM'ed gear for PRubies or BER if you can afford it
     
  12. OldMan_Quiet

    OldMan_Quiet IncGamers Member

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    Double Post
     
  13. Stimm

    Stimm IncGamers Member

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    OK granted Im no expert on pvp but your build parker is totally flawed. First of all given listed gear you only have at best 26% DR as apposed to using ss / shako and having 45% DR and thats not even putting a BER in shako. I might be mistaken but i think 10% fcr is max on rings unless crafted can hit 20 but I doubt it. So now your looking at 40 ( hoto ) 20 ( sw sash ) 20 ( 2 rings ) ~ 80% fcr 100 if you craft a godly +2 / 20% fcr amulet which still is below BP.
    The sage on HoTO is a joke even with lvl 50 BO it dies in 1 hit so thats not even a factor. Any serious Bliz pvp sorc will use Fathom over HoTO providing they have the means to get 1

    Optimal setup would be:

    Nightwings or shako cold facet or umd , most likely facet
    UP'd 50 res viper / +3 blizz ormus or CoH is ok
    Sw sash
    soj / fcr rings
    treks or waterwalks
    trangs gloves or mage fists
    fathom with facet
    crafted +2 amulet with 5% - 15% fcr ( 5 for viper 15 for ormus )
    stormshield

    Blizzard with that setup and decent charms will hit 11k+ as opposed to orb which might hit 1200. Though most pvP sorcs use icebolt as thier main attack so there is no timer like blizz
     
  14. Jules

    Jules IncGamers Member

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    I think i have decided on using blizz and stormshield, also just payed mucho for Archon Coh so i think i will use that putting me at max dr with shako/storm/coh i plan on using the 2 sojs and fathom i bought over 2 fcr rings and hoto. I just realized i think i will put trang's gloves in stash vs cold sorc's over magefists. Still debating on max block with storm but it looks as if everyone is leaning on max block so i will go with that. With the setup i just explained im thinking i can hit 70% fcr...i think 65% fcr is a bp so i guess im fine there. Still open to many and all suggestions. Although alot of people are leaning toward the orb/ES build i think i will go blizz with max syn and lvl 1 eshield off of ormus/orb.
    PS: Update on sorc she is lvl 73 getting hell rush ATM 325 unused stats 70 unused skills, im so unsure of things.
     
  15. MoUsE_WiZ

    MoUsE_WiZ IncGamers Member

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    63% is the bp, but a 9fpc sorc is a dead sorc.
    Not only does it take longer for you to get away, but it more importantly means you have to stand still longer to attack.
    Which is especially bad with blizzard rather than orb as you can't cast it from multiple screens away and expect to do damage with it (unless of course you're scrolling or something like that but I'm pretty sure you aren't).
     
  16. AzaZaz

    AzaZaz IncGamers Member

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    when fighting with a blizz sorc you're not gonna be tanking, you're gonna be as much as a 1 hitter as say a charger. You're gonna hope you catch someone offguard and bury them with 1 blizz....if it takes more then 1 blizz to kill someone, expect to have a serious problem on your hands. Melee druids should be no problem, but any type of pally will give you trouble. Barbs if they tank your blizz will give you problems, i cant see necros or asns being too much trouble, but as matt (i think it was matt) said earlier, you have to watch out for the anti-caster builds. My 55 pally will dismantle a sorc any diff if she's just casting blizz and runnin in circles. So its gonna come down to you choosing your fights well and thats basically it. Also just throwing out an option, Doom as a weapon? its Doom right? -cold res? just an option.


    Cheers
     
  17. AzaZaz

    AzaZaz IncGamers Member

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    when fighting with a blizz sorc you're not gonna be tanking, you're gonna be as much as a 1 hitter as say a charger. You're gonna hope you catch someone offguard and bury them with 1 blizz....if it takes more then 1 blizz to kill someone, expect to have a serious problem on your hands. Melee druids should be no problem, but any type of pally will give you trouble. Barbs if they tank your blizz will give you problems, i cant see necros or asns being too much trouble, but as matt (i think it was matt) said earlier, you have to watch out for the anti-caster builds. My 55 pally will dismantle a sorc any diff if she's just casting blizz and runnin in circles. So its gonna come down to you choosing your fights well and thats basically it. Also just throwing out an option, Doom as a weapon? its Doom right? -cold res? fcr with blizz IMO is pointless, sure you can fire off some extra ice blasts but if your blizz isnt pounding some dmg, your sorc is gonna take a beating. just an option.


    Cheers
     
  18. sahlakh

    sahlakh IncGamers Member

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    -enemy cold res from Doom runeword on merc doesn't work - it only lowers the res for your merc, as stupid is might sound.

    Like some people have already pointed out, 105% faster cast rate is crucial to have for the obvious reasons. Also, putting a shael rune into SS is worth considering - you'll hit a few frames faster block rate which is very nice against melee opponents that hit hard.

    I doubt barbs will own anyway, because they can stack res and tele after you only a frame slower (wiz + ara), and casting a blizz takes time. One stupid cast and you're likely to be wasted. Orb would be better choice IMO, since it deals very good damage when the orb explodes just at the target, and it's much safer as well. On the other hand, you're not likely to get anyone 1-hit killed with orb, and people will have time to reju.

    Still not impossible, just takes a good equip, build and player ;). Good luck.
     
  19. Jules

    Jules IncGamers Member

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    Ok so i have learned that 105% fcr is crucial? This will be hard to obtain considering my gear is planned out and going off route could lead to severe stat or dmg reduction. Quite confused i am thinking more and more that i should go blizz because it would be hell of alot easier to aim, still debating that. Anyways my sorc died at lvl 73 in hell rush against meph. From an invisible attack that me nor the rusher saw but it one hit ko'd me with 800 life and positive resists. Not really sure how just seen slain by mephisto. So in the last 2 hours ive been working on my new sorc and she is already lvl 61 in hell act 2 and still has the 10 day expiration tag on her.
     
  20. NightShade

    NightShade IncGamers Member

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    Orb is a bit more stable than blizzard imo


    You're assured quite a few hits. If you're good with your orb placement you can do SERIOUS damage.
     

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