fire druid

PimpDaddyWicked

Diabloii.Net Member
fire druid

hi everyone,

i've never tried an elemental druid and was interested in a fire druid with a few points in summoning.

I was wondering if it is possible to make an effective druid in hell my maxing out phoenix and some of the synergies as a primary attack??

i would be backing his up with 5 points in dire wolf and maxed grizzly.

Any help is appreciated. I don't wanna get to to hell and find out it is too difficult due to phoenix being to weak for a primary attack.

NOTE: this will be a single player character so consider no perfect equipment

Thanks! :grin:
 

TheMayor

Diabloii.Net Member
first of all, there is no attack called phoenix for the druid. could you perhaps mean the runeword?

my personal opinion, and this could very depending on your route of skills etc, is to max dire wolves and put a couple points in griz instead of maxing grizz. having tanks, while they may not deal strong damage, gives your druid the chance to focus on doing higher dmg yourself

perhaps you could be a little bit more in detail about your plans? it might interest you to look into some of the guides here in the sticky'd thread (outdated....very outdated....) regardless, there are still some guides that have been kept up.

hope this was helpful.
 

PFS

Diabloii.Net Member
A fire druid will have problems with fire immunes, and as you will not have Infinity this will mean you will be unable to kill about 25% of all monsters you come across in hell.
 

MaxMax

Diabloii.Net Member
Assuming that when you say phoenix you are talking about the 40%ctc - firestorm on phoenix. You must take into consideration that you won't be hitting any monster (atleast not many)

Personally I would suggest maxing fissure and its synergies, I've found that this is one of the most useful PvM skills in the game.

As for summons; Bear increase dmg, dire wolf increases Life. Up to you what you prefer.

As said above fire immunes will be "hell," so you should try to either have high dmg summons or max the synergies that provide phys. dmg. to molten boulder or volcano (each other:azn:)
 

SSoG

Diabloii.Net Member
An elementalist's two "money spells" are going to be Fissure and Volcano. In almost every situation imaginable, you'll be best served casting either one or the other. As a result, maxing both is a no-brainer (especially because they mutually synergize each other).

Against packs of monsters, or fast-moving monsters who cannot be pinned in place, Fissure is your attack of choice. Not only does it have much more consistant damage over a much larger area of effect than Volcano, but it also has a bug (aka "feature" :wink3: ) where, if you can get two monsters to stand on a single vent, it will deal DRAMATICALLY more damage to both. If the mechanic causing this bug ("feature") is what I think it is (the same mechanic that causes Poison Creeper to go berserk against crowds), then you could potentially be dealing over ten times Fissure's listed damage if you can get two monsters on one vent. Very nice. Fissure also has the benefit of a much shorter casting timer (2 seconds to Volcano's 4), so if you're unsure whether you should use Fissure or Volcano, go with Fissure.

Against stationary monsters, Volcano is ridiculously good. While it's mostly useless against packs, if you can cast it under a monster's feet and get him to stay put, it will roast him alive. It fires off something like 70 balls at a rate of 2 frames per ball, and if a monster is standing on the 'Cano, he'll get hit by all of them. This results in over twelve times the listed damage per second to single targets. With maxed Volcano and Fissure and a mere +5 skills, we're looking at almost 7,000 damage per second. 1600 of that damage will be physical (and this is without a single physical damage synergy), which makes Volcano a phenominal single-target FI solution.

Armageddon has the tastiest LCS display, but it operates exactly the opposite of Fissure and Volcano. Fissure and Volcano will deal drastically MORE than their displayed damage, but Armageddon will deal drastically LESS, because the rain of fire is so unpredictable that it will very rarely score a hit. Personally, I always ignore it entirely, but if you want you can always invest 5 skill points just to get it because it looks pretty. Remember that it has a 6-second timer, so if you refresh your 'Geddon, you can't 'Cano or Fissure for a full 6 seconds- so don't refresh 'Geddon in the middle of battle!

Firestorm and Molten Boulder (aka "Bowling") are both much harder to aim and use effectively than Fissure or Firestorm. They also both deal much less damage per second. Basically, you're almost never going to be casting them (except for the ocassional strategic "Bowling then retreat" tactics). Their main purpose is going to be as a synergy. Fissure synergizes Firestorm, and Bowling synergizes 'Cano.

Choosing which to boost can be tricky. If you're a Summon/Elemental hybrid (50/50 split between the two trees), picking which to boost is easy- don't boost either, and spend the skill points on summons instead. If you're a "pure" Elementalist, it's easy, too- max them both. The only time you have to actually decide which to boost is when you make my favorite Elementalist build- the Elementalist with summons support (i.e. ~60 points in Elemental, ~30 points in Summoning).

If you're an Elementalist with summon support, which one you max is going to depend on how you spend your summoning skills. If you max Dire Wolves to make your summons into great tanks, then you're probably going to max Bowling so you have a FI solution. If you max Grizzly to make your summons into great damage dealers, you'll already have an FI solution, so you'll probably want to max Firestorm, since you'll be casting Fissure more often. Or you could always just split the points between the two, although I usually prefer specializing.

Also, which summon you use will be affected a lot by which spells you use. Grizzly makes 'Cano useless, because he'll keep knocking baddies off of the hot spot. In other words, if you're using Volcano, don't use Grizzly (or an A5 merc, for the same reason). Grizzly also slows down Fissure, because Fissure only hits monsters who aren't in hit recovery (and knockback results in hit recovery), although Grizzly still works fine with Fissure. I generally prefer to run the Dire Wolves at all times, because they're both Fissure and 'Cano friendly. A3 Cold Mercs are also handy for making blue statues (for you to open 'Canos underneath), although they'll reduce the effectiveness of Fissure a lot of the time (stationary monsters can often escape a Fissure unscathed if they're lucky enough not to have a vent open underneath them).

Another fun varient is "Shock and Awe". Max Shockwave instead of the summons, shift into Werebear form, shockwave a group of monsters, unshift, drop a 'Cano under their feet, and watch them roast while they're stunned. It's a much, much, much slower killing strategy (thanks to the single-target nature of 'Cano and the 4-second timer), but a lot of times it's safer. It's always too slow and hotkey intensive for me to enjoy, but I know some people who swear by it.
 

PimpDaddyWicked

Diabloii.Net Member
OK thanks for all your help

i'll give ya more information

I will max dire wolves and only one pt in grizzly.

the skill i actually meant was firestorm.

does its range get any better with levels? and is it a viable primary attack if maxed with synergies in hell.

Thanks :)
 

SSoG

Diabloii.Net Member
the skill i actually meant was firestorm.

does its range get any better with levels? and is it a viable primary attack if maxed with synergies in hell.
Nope, its range doesn't get better. Nope, it's not really a viable primary attack. I mean, you can do it if you really set your mind to it... but then again, I've seen people beat the game without assigning a single skill point, so you can do ANYTHING if you set your mind to it. Still, Firestorm is very weak and very tough to use as a primary skill in Hell. Heck, it's weak and tough to use as a secondary skill in Hell, too. Like I said, Fissure and 'Cano are the Elementalist's two "money spells".



 

Fluffballer

Diabloii.Net Member
Firestorm is a matter of preference. I find it a very useful, Hell-viable spell because I almost always go max block. If a monster is standing directly in front of you, all three snakes of the firestorm will likely hit it, causing 3 times the listed amount of damage. It's a great boss killer.

Edit: Re: the money skills... I find the first 4 fire skills are all equally as useful. I prefer MB over volcano because it's a hell of a lot easier to hit things and lots of things with. And on top of that, most of the time the same MB will continue hitting an enemy over and over as it knocks it back.

I think the bottom line is the fire line is a very versatile skill set and it's entirely up to you what you kill things with. You basically can't go wrong.
 

SSoG

Diabloii.Net Member
Firestorm is a matter of preference. I find it a very useful, Hell-viable spell because I almost always go max block. If a monster is standing directly in front of you, all three snakes of the firestorm will likely hit it, causing 3 times the listed amount of damage. It's a great boss killer.

Edit: Re: the money skills... I find the first 4 fire skills are all equally as useful. I prefer MB over volcano because it's a hell of a lot easier to hit things and lots of things with. And on top of that, most of the time the same MB will continue hitting an enemy over and over as it knocks it back.

I think the bottom line is the fire line is a very versatile skill set and it's entirely up to you what you kill things with. You basically can't go wrong.
I understand that a lot of people like Firestorm... I just don't like it. Even though its damage is a lot better at point-blank range, Volcano can still outpace it. To run some numbers...

Assuming the first 4 fire skills (Firestorm, Bowling, Fissure, 'Cano) are all maxed and you aren't wearing any +skills, and also assuming that you spam Firestorm with a 10-frame casting speed (163% ias, fastest legitimately obtainable- reduced to a 6-frame cast speed as far as Firestorm is concerned because it's timered). So it takes 6 frames to cast, and then there's a 15 frame timer, resulting in 21 frames between each cast. The burntime for Firestorm is only 16 frames, so at the fastest legitimately obtainable casting breakpoint, each snake will only deal 16/21st of its listed damage. Triple that for when all three snakes hit, and you're dealing 12718 per cast. Multiply by 25/21 (because you're casting more than one per second) and you're dealing 15,140 per second. Against large targets, that number might be very slightly higher, since they'll spend an extra frame or two in the burn per cast (17,032 per cast if they spend an extra 2 frames in the burn).

Compare this to Volcano. Volcano shoots 12.5 times per second. A slvl 40 Volcano, fully synergized, deals 1842.5 damage per shot. That's 22,110 damage per second if you raise it under a monster's feet (actually, more, because Volcano's duration is greater than its timer- so you can stack Volcanos if you're so inclined).

Tactically, Volcano has the edge, too. Firestorm requires that a monster be (a) motionless and (b) really, really close. Volcano requires that a monster be (a) motionless, and that's it- so Volcano is easier to use. And Firestorm requires that you be constantly casting- i.e. rooted in place- while Volcano leaves you free to run around. Both are going to deal ancillary damage if there are other monsters standing around. Basically, there's never a time when Firestorm is going to deal more single-target damage than Volcano (unless the target is PI, but PIs generally aren't a problem for elementalists), and the fact that it requires FCR to reach full potential costs you elsewhere with your gear (plus you'll need enough HP and blocking and such to survive being toe-to-toe while spamming).

Where Firestorm really shines, in my opinions, is when you can take advantage of its shorter casting timer. Against Flayers, for instance, where you're going more for speed than power, Firestorm is nicer than Volcano because you don't have to wait 4 seconds before recasting. But in many of those situations, Fissure will shine more than Firestorm because it's multi-target damage, and while its timer is longer than Firestorm's (2 seconds to .6 seconds), it's still short enough to be manageable.

I don't know, I've just never run into a situation where Firestorm or Molten Boulder would ever outdamage Fissure or Volcano (except for the very rare instance of large single-target PIs, who can be mostly managed through other techniques). Same thing with Bowling- its knockback is very handy, but thanks to the 2-second timer its damage is most certainly not. It is, of course, merely a subjective opinion, but I really believe that Volcano and Fissure are really the only two skills you'll ever need for a Firementalist (outside of a 1-point Bowling for knockback against tough bosses).

I suppose you could make a Fissure/Firestorm Elementalist, which would have a comparable Fissure and a slightly weaker secondary skill (Firestorm compared to Volcano). The big problem with that is FIs- Volcano is indispensible for its Physical Damage against FIs. Firestorm/Fissure Elementalists really have no easy solution, outside of maybe relying on merc and grizzly.



 
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