Finding the Inner Voice of Reason - Some Thoughts on a Conviction Zealot

clsi

Banned
Actually ignore my questions. I found a steal online, getting a CoH, albiet not anywhere near top Def (787) for Ohm and Um. I saved an Ist! This rune will of course be saved away for the day when I can get a CTA. I already have 4 ums...which means i'm probably one um away from getting mal and ohm.
 

Angry

Banned
hey guys, i've got a level 80 version of this build, and i like it so far.

i was wondering do you guys think a holy freeze or might act 2 merc might be better than an act 5 w/ voice of reason eth balrog? i was thinking that rift can be built into a polearm and then you'd get the bonus from aura as well.

currently my act 5 merc is level 80 and i'm starting to look for the runes for his weapon, i just don't want to spend some money on it when i could be building a rift polearm instead
 

clsi

Banned
I first went with Act1 Merc and Harmony, which was okay. I needed her to run fast as I use Goblintoes. Once I got enigma I no longer needed harmony and went with a A2 Rift/defiance merc. I'm very happy with the merc as he boosts my def by nearly 10k and he can handle his own.

IMO holy freeze is a waste, as your orbs already provide more than enough cold "freeze." If you desire your enemies to be cold more often then I definitely suggest a rift welding a2 merc. Between you and your merc there should be too many orbs for the holy freeze to be of much use. If you absolutely are set on a holy freeze merc, perhaps you should also consider an A1 merc welding the Ice bow. The two hrs(jah and lo) might be out of your price range but is something that you can save up for.

100% Chance To Cast Level 40 Blizzard When You Level-up
25% Chance To Cast Level 22 Frost Nova On Striking
Level 18 Holy Freeze Aura When Equipped
+20% Increased Attack Speed
+140-210% Enhanced Damage (varies)
Ignore Target's Defense
+25-30% To Cold Skill Damage
-20% To Enemy Cold Resistance
7% Life Stolen Per Hit
20% Deadly Strike
3.125-309.375 Extra Gold From Monsters (Based on Character Level)

Big attraction is the holy freeze for one, but more importantly is 25% chance to cast frozen nova on striking. That is huge as it casts a nova around the TARGET as opposed to holy freeze which is limited by the radius centered around the merc.
 

maiku

Diabloii.Net Member
hey guys, i've got a level 80 version of this build, and i like it so far.

i was wondering do you guys think a holy freeze or might act 2 merc might be better than an act 5 w/ voice of reason eth balrog? i was thinking that rift can be built into a polearm and then you'd get the bonus from aura as well.

currently my act 5 merc is level 80 and i'm starting to look for the runes for his weapon, i just don't want to spend some money on it when i could be building a rift polearm instead
Agreed that Holy Freeze Merc seems redundant. Frozen Orbs and Ice Bolt are being launched like crazy most of the time, so mobs should be chilled or frozen 95% of the time. If using "Rift," which I consider to be the ultimate Merc weapon for this build, then something like Defiance Merc which clsi is using is really awesome. IIRC, "Rift" doesn't have weapon ED on it, so a Might Merc doesn't make full use of it, either. If you have a Gul or can trade for one easily, I'd say skip the eth Balrog "VoR" and go for the "Rift." The eth Balrog is a compromise if you're short on runes and it's cheap, because Balrog Blades drop pretty often in Hell. A regular Balrog could work too. I'd recommend sticking the "Rift" in an ethereal or regular Thresher/Giant Thresher, so you can get Orbs to proc like crazy.

Haven't tried "Ice" although I'm sure it would work quite well. Frost Nova is awesome. OT: I built a viable Frost Nova Sorceress recently. I love her to death.


 

Master Zap

Diabloii.Net Member
According to Shon from my thread: (page 5)
Rift would be ultimate, higher orb, more damage , defiance more procs... MMM! :thumbsup:

Took my idea! With a -10 base speed polearm (i.e. scythe/war scythe/thresher) and 75 IAS (Treachery + 2x 15 IAS jewel Giant Skull or 15 IAS Jewel Andariel Visage), Emilio attacks 4.5 times a second. That's almost double the maximum Barbarian merc attack speed with a Phase Blade.

ri
 

Angry

Banned
awwww, level 81 Wulfgar is gonna be sad i'll have to let him go.

and i'm pissed i traded my 12k eth glitched 3 sock armor too :(

anyhow, once i geat the gear together i'll definately go w/ defiance merc w/ rift. thanks guys
 

clsi

Banned
For the more experienced auradin folk, have any of you compared VoR to HoJ/Drag setup? I probably wont' ever go this route as I just love the speed of using enigma but i'm just curious to the comparative killing pace.

I obviously have read the comparisons between VoR and Rift. I'm too lazy to look up who wrote it but somebody wrote something how Rift would be a tier 1 and Vor would be a Tier 1.5 [less damage, but base weapon speed = more orb procs=crowd control]. Since I use dual dreams [which improved my killing power/speed immensely) I can only imagine what adding those two would do. Obviously you'd you would lose a lot of the crowd control from the lost orbs but i'd imagine killing to be quick.
 

chien

Diabloii.Net Member
You will need to max Fire Resist for Hfire synergy to be effective. HOJ/Drg/Dual Dream => standard auradin equip and he is not VoR din anymore :p

I've also put on dual dreams on my VoR din recently. I maxed Fana/LR/Convic/HShiled and 4 points in Zeal. He is very versatile char!

Helm: Dream (in Death Mask, can't find a better when I make it :( and I roll a 20 resist all :cry: LOL
Armor: Treachery now (seriously thinking to put nigma on)
Ammy: Highlords
Ring: 1xRaven, 1xDwarf
Wep1: VoR PB
Shield1: Dream Shield
Wep2: LOW LOW grief :tongue:
Shield2: 4OS pally shield (not socket anything yet, 4Pdiamond or ...?)
Glove: Dracul
Boot: Gore
Belt: T-God

VoR/Dual Dreams vs. crowd. Wep Switch (aura switch to Fana, skill switch to smite) vs. Bossl (switch to G-Face helm,too).

Haven't tried him on U-trist yet. But, he is pretty good against mini-uber (organ run).


Chien
 

clsi

Banned
Ya obviously won't be a VoR anymore! I was just curious for those who tried out both worlds.

Skills:
20 Holy shield
20 conviction
20 Lightning Resist
20 Salvation
8 defiance


Equipment:
weapon: VoR PB
helm: Dream Bone Visage
Armor: Enigma Archon Plate
Shield: Dream Kurast Shield
Gloves: Crafted Vampirebone 20ias, 10% CB, 3%LL, 20 life, 29 LR, 5 PR
Boots: upped Goblin Toe
belt: Verdungos 15DR
Rings: Ravenfrost
Rare: 8% LL, 6% ML, +3 str, 26 CR, 9 FR, 26 PR [if it only added big dex instead of str and had more res]
Ammy: Metalgrid [will get Mara's, can't think of any other ammy since I won't be reaching the 4fps]

CTA 5/5/4 / 33 Spirit switch

Oh chien I highly recommend Enigma. Not sure what you do with your pally but mine is my main char so I do all my key/mf runs with him and teleport is just a must. I loved 4fps zeal but I just need teleport more.


I still haven't been on any organ/trist run yet, haha.


Actually question about that. Since at lvl 25 cap, conviction drops enemy def by 92% why should you smite over zeal?? Are their(bosses/minions) def levels ridiculously high?? I figure you can zeal quickly and still have the CB.

In my mind it just makes more sense to zeal plus my smite won't take advantage of the lightning damage from the dreams!
 

Master Zap

Diabloii.Net Member
" Actually question about that. Since at lvl 25 cap, conviction drops enemy def by 92% why should you smite over zeal? Are their(bosses/minions) def levels ridiculously high? I figure you can zeal quickly and still have the CB. "

your exactly right :thumbsup:

I use zeal 95% of the time. The only time I bust into the Fanat/smite is on bosses and when I uber. The physical damage is far higher, providing me with constant LL. It's also always hits, and when I'm surrounded by mobs (in ubers) it allows me to pick out one enemy (like meph/baal/D) instead of attacking everything around me in range.

I was also thinking a one can do a foh/ Vor pally pretty well too! this would give you an IM solution to boot

I'd also use this on cold/light immunes. Throw in the fact that the ubers have crazy res's it slants even more onto the physical damage.
 

chien

Diabloii.Net Member
I just have 1 point in smite (as pre-req for holy shield). I build it with future U-trist in mind (when I don't have dual dreams yet). The reason to use smite is that it always hits (I know we already have high lvl conv, but still, you might miss some vs. super boss) and it will stun. It might be overkill for normal boss but it should (I think) be very effective for mini-uber/uber-trist (with very high life, high elemental resist and high life regenaration). I'll try to just zeal with dual dreams when I have organ run next time to see if there is any big difference.

Master Zap beat me for the answers :p

Chien


BTW, Clsi:

How about put the highlord's ammy (20 ias, too) on and swap the glove for Dracul (Lifetap is important if you plan to fight mini-ubers or uber trist). Even I haven't run uber trist yet, Lilith's attack is pretty deadly if you can't leech life consistently.

Chien
 

clsi

Banned
I should have been more clear but I meant soley looking at Uber/trist runs. If it wasn't for the life leech difference when comparing your smite to vor PB, would you be zealing?

I'd still think (again I have no exp there) the elemental damage/conviction/zeal is more than physical dam/smite? It makes sense as a defensive perspective to keep from dying but is that all?

Also with 1 smite [plus even say 3-6 skills] is the stun sufficient to lock the boss? I'd assume no?

I don't like highlords as it has too little res, hence why i'm using metalgrid and want to move on to mara's. I also rather use more elemental damage charms then res charms but that is just me. Maybe when I die while I uber i'll test out drac/highlords setup. Dracs while okay, I can't see myself using other than for the obvious lifetap and again I haven't ubered and I can tank easily any part of hell without it. I just feel my current gloves are stronger.

Also when we say zeal is 5 or 4 fps, what does that mean? Obviously 6 fps smite is easy to understand as each swing of the shield takes 6 fps. So with zeal, are we saying it takes 5 fps for 5 swings to take place? or 5 fps per swing?
 

chien

Diabloii.Net Member
5frame per attack. So, each swing (5 attacks) will take 25 frame to complete if you have 5 frame attack. As Master Zap mentioned, smite is better vs single target when some monsters are around. Zeal will try to spread out too all monsters around. As you can think, smite and dragon talon (kickers) are considerably most deadly attacks for single target.

Plus, the damage of smite is not from the skill level of smite (check out the 1-pt smite guide in sticky). The big source are Fana aura and Grief PB :) Combine with CB (G-face and Gore), you get a fast boss killer right there.

Chien

LOL, the link is not in sticky. It is below (here : http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=425449)

Chien
 

clsi

Banned
If it takes ppl 3 min or so using the typical grief smite/fana combo to complete trist. You think surviving in trist solo for 10-13 min is feasible with my build? I don't have a point in fana, so you are losing the 373% dam boost as well as a 8fps smite rate. Obviously CB will be the easy part for the boss killing but if it takes forever to swing and bring them down, then of course they heal and more minions spawn. This will drag out the process even more, etc.
 

chien

Diabloii.Net Member
I am not sure. But, I've seen people converting their hammerdin to 1pt smiter. I've read someone smite ubers with Ber'ed wiz spike/HoZ. It still could be done but just slower, I guess.

Chien
 

maiku

Diabloii.Net Member
According to Shon from my thread: (page 5)
Rift would be ultimate, higher orb, more damage , defiance more procs... MMM! :thumbsup:

Took my idea! With a -10 base speed polearm (i.e. scythe/war scythe/thresher) and 75 IAS (Treachery + 2x 15 IAS jewel Giant Skull or 15 IAS Jewel Andariel Visage), Emilio attacks 4.5 times a second. That's almost double the maximum Barbarian merc attack speed with a Phase Blade.

ri
You are the one who originated it and you deserve all credit. You know I wouldn't steal your thunder. And you changed my thinking about the build a lot. Yes, Barb Merc attacks rather slowly, like a Rogue Merc does, so he's not the best of the best. But for those with access to a few Lems and Kos, a Barb running around spitting out Frozen Orbs is not shabby!

Any idea if a Defiance Merc running around with "Rift" can survive in Hell Chaos Sanctuary if he's IMed? IIRC, much of the damage on "Rift" also comes from magic and fire if enemies get up close and personal. Or would the Merc still do kamikaze to himself from the eth weapon damage?


 

Master Zap

Diabloii.Net Member
you know I've found it's generaly best to go for the best damage/speed you can get for merc's. With a low damage wep, it takes about 4 hits to kill you with IM. With an elite it takes 2 hits to kill the mec. The end result is either way your not actively playing with the merc under IM. The difference is a moment more response time to run away and clense or tp back to town.

I've found the greater benefit of more leach generaly keeps the merc alive better everywhere else in the game (there really isnt that many IM spots to contend with)

For another VOR option , I've been playing around the numbers on a doubleswing barb using 2 vor's (the speed is faster then 4fpa I believe it's bugged) with a infinnity merc and Nightwings helm. I figure damage will be very comparable with those orbs. I'd use 1 point in frenzy simply for the faster attack and running. I'd then probably go Double throw on switch

-85 res from conviction on merc , Nightwing and -48 res from 2X vor's
seems like it could work out to me. :scratch:


clsi , we're built almost identical. I too use metalgrid over Highlords

it would be fun to have a couple vor pallies team up for some hell playing together. We'd plow through with ease!
 

clsi

Banned
Definitely agree with Master Zap on mercs.

My Merc uses the following setup:
Vampgaze (ias jewel)
Rift Thresher (for some reason I never see giant threshers on the ground?)
Fortitude in Eth bugged Hell forge plate

Definitely for my merc, based on 300% ED of fort and using a thresher, will die from IM after 3 or so swings. However he definitely has been more tankable and saved by his leech ability then dying from IM. Even though he would proc a ton a more orbs with treachery, I don't really need him to kill just to survive and take some heat off my back. His def, with the aura and chilling armor activated, is over 23k, maxed res (80LR) with and he has 3.5k+ life. The only time he ever dies is he from those tomb vipers near Nihik [those charge, poison attacks kill him in like 4 strikes] and gradually against council member monsters. I really don't get it because he has more DR and life then me but he is not as tankable as I am against them (then again i have 75 block, 3k more def). However he is a lot more tankable when it comes to CE then me? When nikh starts to blow up bodies, my merc just dances in the fire.

That Barb builds sounds pretty interesting. Definitely would turn some heads.

I actually have never played with or seen another VoR pally online yet. The only time I have even seen it mentioned was a game where a guy was selling his VoR!
 

chien

Diabloii.Net Member
When you are hit by poison cloud from Viper, as long as you don't move, you'll take little damage. The merc has tendency to poke around and die :( BTW, you will need integral DR to deal with the bug poison cloud (not %DR you have from Vgaze). I've heard that you need to have 30-40 PDR to be effective (Gbane, Sol runes...). Also, you don't have CBF in your merc gear. Sometimes, lots of cold damage from the skeleton archers arrows will make your merc suffer (can't attack or very slow).

Chien
 

Sal-vation

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Finding the Inner Voice of Reason - Some Thoughts on a Conviction Zealot

Hi. I've been reading alot of the posts about this type of Paladin. I'm trying to get most of the items together for him. I had one suggestion that I saw mentioned only briefly, a Dragon runeword shield. The ctc hydra comes out the most, thats about 200 fire damage, per head, with conviction. Multiply that by 3 heads and consider it should proc failr often...sounds good to me on paper. And placing points in resist fire will doubly benefit your resist and damage output. The other mods are just gravy, I only worry about the lack of resistance and blocking. Maybe if you found a high res paladin shield? Has anyone given this much thought, or even better, tried it?

Sal
 
Top