Faster Paragon Leveling coming soon
- Thread starter Hound
- Start date
HardRock
Diabloii.Net Member
Certain stats do lose some significance later on, but not all. Increased resource pools for example are just as useful at level 60 as it is at level 1. Maybe even more so, because you can utilize your resuource much better at that point.
Similarly, anything that acts as a multiplier stays very relevant later in the game.
Similarly, anything that acts as a multiplier stays very relevant later in the game.
Flux
Administrator
I have not put a single paragon point into any attribute since they redid the tabs mid-beta and put more compelling point sinks into the Core tab.
That said, the whole paragon 2.0 thing is tricky and I don\'t see any obvious solution. We wanted shared bonuses so we weren\'t stuck with a main like in D3 now, and we wanted bonuses that did more than just boost attributes, and we want the bonuses to be impactful, and we want them to be useful for the long term, and we don\'t want them to be totally overpowered so all that mattered was your paragon level.
How do you combine all those things? Make paragon levels fun and powerful, but not so powerful they outweigh all else, and not too slow and not too fast and useful at level 6 as well as level 600?
That said, the whole paragon 2.0 thing is tricky and I don\'t see any obvious solution. We wanted shared bonuses so we weren\'t stuck with a main like in D3 now, and we wanted bonuses that did more than just boost attributes, and we want the bonuses to be impactful, and we want them to be useful for the long term, and we don\'t want them to be totally overpowered so all that mattered was your paragon level.
How do you combine all those things? Make paragon levels fun and powerful, but not so powerful they outweigh all else, and not too slow and not too fast and useful at level 6 as well as level 600?
Flux
Administrator
Players are looking at paragon bonuses too much with an eye on the early game. Sure, .2% more CC or 1% more CD isn\'t a big deal in of itself, but look at end game gear and economy in D3. Adding 1% more CC to an item will take the price from 50m to 500m, at the upper edge of quality.
Every little added point makes a huge difference when you\'ve got a character that\'s really optimized. So I think we\'ll appreciate PPs more in the long run, as improving gear gets really hard and the challenge is to boost your char\'s power any way you can.
Every little added point makes a huge difference when you\'ve got a character that\'s really optimized. So I think we\'ll appreciate PPs more in the long run, as improving gear gets really hard and the challenge is to boost your char\'s power any way you can.
sneakytails
Diabloii.Net Member
Paragon would not feel so dull and un-rewarding (while at the same time mandatory to fill affix gaps...)if there were other ways to modify stats in the game, preferably a system of items that dropped from monsters.
Then Paragon would seem like \"icing on the cake\" which is fine in that context and it suits its job well. Nothing wrong with the idea of long term grinding, as long as other choices abound for those who do not like the idea, then all is well.
Paragon and Legendaries are both over emphasized in this game because there are a clear lack of choices, and this makes any imperfection large or small,that much bigger.
There is nothing happening in between Lengendary drops or Paragon points and its really hurting this game.
Then Paragon would seem like \"icing on the cake\" which is fine in that context and it suits its job well. Nothing wrong with the idea of long term grinding, as long as other choices abound for those who do not like the idea, then all is well.
Paragon and Legendaries are both over emphasized in this game because there are a clear lack of choices, and this makes any imperfection large or small,that much bigger.
There is nothing happening in between Lengendary drops or Paragon points and its really hurting this game.
sneakytails
Diabloii.Net Member
Paragon points are virtually meaningless to new players because they HAVE NONE. Its a system that only benefits one type of player and that\'s why it sucks.
Diablo 2\'s system was far and away the better system throughout the leveling process. I felt just as good about my character in the early levels as I did later on earning points. Completely accessible to the newb, as much as the grizzled veteran.
I don\'t really see the new players brought in by the expansion smiling when they see paragon 300 toons blowing past them at level 1 via fat paragon bonuses.
To get full benefit from Paragon is INCREDIBLY grindy, far more time than the vast majority of players will put in. This is why the system in inferior, this is why it will fail in the eyes of most players.
Diablo 2\'s system was far and away the better system throughout the leveling process. I felt just as good about my character in the early levels as I did later on earning points. Completely accessible to the newb, as much as the grizzled veteran.
I don\'t really see the new players brought in by the expansion smiling when they see paragon 300 toons blowing past them at level 1 via fat paragon bonuses.
To get full benefit from Paragon is INCREDIBLY grindy, far more time than the vast majority of players will put in. This is why the system in inferior, this is why it will fail in the eyes of most players.
HardRock
Diabloii.Net Member
Or alternatively decrease the interval you get these small rewards, which is what they\'re doing. The end result is the same. It\'s worth mentioning though that after a while Paragon leveling will always feel slow, because it has no well defined limit. This is why people shouldn\'t focus on getting XP as fast as they can. That way they will always be disappointed, no matter the devs do.
sneakytails
Diabloii.Net Member
To be clear I was speaking from a new players perspective, I am not a new player, I am a player that benefits directly from a reasonable paragon point pool.
That is true. But then look on how long on high Paragon Level(let\'s say 250+) will take you to get this 1%, since we get 1 point to each tree every 4 levels. Would spending 50 hours of farming levels would really be worth that 1% CD.
Yes, that\'s the same problem that was in Diablo 2, where 5 points you could spent in stats didn\'t mean anything when \"dingin\" from, for example, 80 to 81.
I\'m NOT against Paragon 2.0. For me personaly it\'s just like Diablo 2, where one level gave you exetremly litle when it comes to stats. 20 levels diffrence is big, 1 level diffrence is nothing when it comes to stats.
Yes, that\'s the same problem that was in Diablo 2, where 5 points you could spent in stats didn\'t mean anything when \"dingin\" from, for example, 80 to 81.
I\'m NOT against Paragon 2.0. For me personaly it\'s just like Diablo 2, where one level gave you exetremly litle when it comes to stats. 20 levels diffrence is big, 1 level diffrence is nothing when it comes to stats.
DirkWasterbaken
Diabloii.Net Member
Agreed totally. The rewards are ****. It's not about how fast that stuff levels. If I know my merc will gain an aura that boosts movement speed or something I'd be much more interested in obtaining that.
And yeah, they moved the uninspired progression from leveling to end game so we have something to do, but it won't matter if it doesn't seem cool or fun.
grandioseone
Diabloii.Net Member
I cannot +1 you enough sneakytails.
V
Valamyr
Guest
We\'re immensely far from a situation where \'all that matters is your Paragon level\', we would need to more than double the bonuses across the board to even remotely make this an issue. Even a p800 has only very moderate power derived from his experience, it\'s still all about gear, all the time.
Personally I\'d overhaul weak modifiers and increase the good ones by 50% over what they are now. Attributes wise, it feels like moving from a flat bonus to a percentage boost would make perfect sense; there\'d be synergy with your equipment, keeping it useful at all gear-power-levels. That\'d make them useful without being overpowered, as long as the percentage is balanced. +.25% to +12.5% to mainstat and to vitality would be balanced and tremendously more rewarding than a teeny tiny flat +5.
Personally I\'d overhaul weak modifiers and increase the good ones by 50% over what they are now. Attributes wise, it feels like moving from a flat bonus to a percentage boost would make perfect sense; there\'d be synergy with your equipment, keeping it useful at all gear-power-levels. That\'d make them useful without being overpowered, as long as the percentage is balanced. +.25% to +12.5% to mainstat and to vitality would be balanced and tremendously more rewarding than a teeny tiny flat +5.
K
Koko
Guest
\"Would spending 50 hours of farming levels would really be worth that 1% CD.\"
If these 50h are chores, play another game. This 1% is a bonus for what should be 50h of fun.
If these 50h are chores, play another game. This 1% is a bonus for what should be 50h of fun.
H
huckebinmkv
Guest
As i always mention paragon is a lie only. Higher P lv you are lesser effect it is. It is not an end game, but a joke only.
You\'re looking at it purely economically, which IMO, is the wrong way, especially when considering character development outside of gear.
What you said may be true, a tiny bump in stats on an item having an enormous effect on the price, but I think this is a bigger reflection on lack of real gold sinks and poor drop rates, not actual item worth/impact.
We all know how hard it is to farm upgrades yourself in the current D3 build, so even getting an infinitesimal bump in whatever stat is hard to come by, factor in the lack of true gold sinks, and you got an economy that\'s willing to pay sky high prices for bumps in stats whose effects will likely be negligible. I call this poor game design overall, not calculated progression with the end game in mind.
What you said may be true, a tiny bump in stats on an item having an enormous effect on the price, but I think this is a bigger reflection on lack of real gold sinks and poor drop rates, not actual item worth/impact.
We all know how hard it is to farm upgrades yourself in the current D3 build, so even getting an infinitesimal bump in whatever stat is hard to come by, factor in the lack of true gold sinks, and you got an economy that\'s willing to pay sky high prices for bumps in stats whose effects will likely be negligible. I call this poor game design overall, not calculated progression with the end game in mind.