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Failure Build?

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by Tyrone, May 12, 2005.

  1. Tyrone

    Tyrone IncGamers Member

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    Failure Build?

    So I was building a fishymancer and I got to about level 38 and had been following it pretty closely when I realized I had not been paying enough attention and had put six points into Skeleton Mage when those points should have gone to the warrior. So I was concerned then I thought, "Whatever, forget that, I'm so lame following these builds to the letter." So I decided to go for something I had wanted my Necro to have but wasn't included in the fishymancer build which sounded exciting being Poison Nova.

    So long story short would it be practical to make a build that uses both CE, PN, and a balanced army of mages and warriors along with few curses?

    I was thinking...

    20 CE
    20 PN
    10 Mage
    10 Warrior
    10 SM

    I looked around and couldn't find a guide which detailed this sort of thing. SO either it's suicidal or original! :rolleyes:
     
  2. Chimaira

    Chimaira IncGamers Member

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    I think you're spreading yourself too thin:(

    With only 10/10 in Raise Skeleton/Skeleton Mastery your skellies will be quite weak, both damage/tanking wise. Also your Poison Nova needs synergies to do damage, which is quite a lot of points, so you need to get to a very high level which isn't easy at all.

    Also you'll have to choose between Lower Resist to help your poison/mages or Amplify Damage to help your skellies...Without their respective curses poison/skellies are very weak.

    I did something similar to you and maxed the poison skills but without some serious +% poison damage and -% poison resist you can't really kill anything in Hell. I'd say max Raise Skeleton/Skeleton Mastery for some kickass skeletons!
     
  3. HCTwinJava

    HCTwinJava IncGamers Member

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    10 CE
    20 PN
    20 Warrior
    20 SM
    1 bone armor (extra pts only go to its synergies)
    + prereq and your favorite curses
    + rest of pts into P synergies


    would feel much better.
     
  4. Tyrone

    Tyrone IncGamers Member

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    Ahh...yes now I see. Now after reconsidering it I think even 5 pts in CE would be fine when I could put those points toward making PE more effective.

    Also after doing some extra research I DID find gvandale's very similar Poison/Summoner build so sorry for the ignorance. Thanks for the help.
     
  5. batuchka

    batuchka IncGamers Member

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    Hmm Chimaira is right - poison/summon needs -/+ poisons resists/ enhanced poison dmg to kill stuff well in hell but i feel all is not loss with that 6 points into mages :D Why not :

    20 Skeleton Mastery
    20 Mages
    20 Raise Skeleton
    20 Corpse Explosion
    5 Lower Resist

    Merc : Might Act 2 (max damage from minions) or
    'Edge' Act 1 (returned damage build)

    With +10 skills Lower Resist @ slvl 15 gives -60 elemental resists and for 5 points i thinks dats a good backup vs PIs that amp damage could not break and the idea is to let high lvl mages/skelly mastery and fire damage component of CE to solve this problem :p You could even get away with less into Lower Resist and use trang gloves with +2 curses which would also help in boosting Dim Vision's radius for pesky ranged attackers in hell (Black Souls,etc) Blackhand key + homo also gives an additonal +3 to curses on top of +4 necro :D Cheers and hope my suggestions were useful

    p.s Oh ya Arm Of King Leoric would be best wand for above build for massive bonus to minions and if you go base dex consider a +3 Boneflame and Golemlord ammy, shako, trang armor (or full trang) , etc :p
     
  6. HCTwinJava

    HCTwinJava IncGamers Member

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    if you go for a full minion-based build, then

    20 Skeleton Mastery
    20 Mages
    20 Raise Skeleton
    1 into all other summon skills
    1 into 4 P/B skills to get CE (with teeth), B Armor (with B wall)
    1 into all curses other than Attract/Lower Resist

    Optional:
    10+ Corpse Explosion
    1 into Lower Resist (mainly use it when you're in a party with sorc/ama/trapsin/etc who use elem dmg attacks)
    1 into Attract (only if you really love to use it over Confusion)

    All of your remaining skill pts go to either B Wall or Corpse Exp or divided into both.

    Your merc of choice: Normal Act2 Defensive -> NM Act 2 Offensive (Act1 merc with Edge runeword is a poor choice, since you don't want to take dmg in order to kill stuff in Hell, also Edge with Thorns aura is useless against all ranged/elemental based attackers, and any Act1 merc requires best gear to deliver just some dmg in Hell)


    This necro, at lvl 75+, with +2 to all necro skills and +3 to summon skills, and 40+ resists in Hell, is able to solo Hell on 1.10 HC ladder.

    I have done that twice on HCL, 100% or nearly 100% untwinked. I also almost did that once more on SCL recently, though this SCL necro (lvl 78, nearly 100% untwinked) was only used to complete a few most challenging quests, including Hell Ancients. None of them died in Hell.
     
  7. Pherdnut

    Pherdnut IncGamers Member

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    Don't bother with PN unless you're willing put at least 75% of its synergies into it and are willing to devote your weapon shield and two other pieces to Death's Web and Triple Trang's. Bone Spirit with marrow walks would be much more viable.

    Also, 20 points in CE is totally unnecessary. My poison/skelli does hell cow runs with 1 point in CE and he splatters entire flocks of cows with his PNB plus skills. If anything I think 20 in skeleton mages will up your killing speed a lot faster since that first corpse will drop a lot quicker.

    To give you an idea:

    I've got 15/16 for my skellie/poison necro. I prebuff them with an arm of King Leoric and splendor shield that gives +4/+3. The only other skills that effect my skellies are from my +2 all amu and +1 Skullder's. When I switch back to my poison gear for some reason I lose an extra skelly and only have 8. I can tell you with confidence that it would take longer without the poison but I could easily clear hell cows with my 8 ghetto skellies alone and I only have 1 point in CE.

    However, 20 points in CE may be lots of fun. I won't argue with that. Having a larger radius can be nice too since it will frequently draw the attention of all nearby hordes of enemies to the piles of corpses you're already standing and ready to blow. That seems to happen a lot in cows and I've only got 1 point in CE.

    Keep in mind, all you really have to get right for a successful skelliemancer build is 20/20 in skeletons and mastery, 1/1 in gumby, 1 point in Summon Resists and 1 point in amp damage. You could easily get through Hell with only 44 points invested and a might merc. Everything else is about making it even MORE effective. I don't think 20 in CE instead of 1 or 5 will up your killing speed as much as 20 in mages will. Also, the chilling and poison effects can help you out a lot against bosses in Hell.

    So, in short, once you have the warriors at 20/20 and a might merc you're pretty much good to go. Just get as many plus skills as possible and try to keep your resists up.

    The beauty of summoner builds is that they're very flexible since the bulk of the killing and survivability comes from a mere 44 points.

    If I were you, I would say screw it and go all the way. Fill out those Mages to a full 20, get LR for the occasional ghost/physical immune and/or possessed physical immune so your mages can take over, and put 1 point in revives until you have an idea of how many you can get without having to constantly chugging pots. Also, unless this is a duelling build, don't be afraid to put a little extra into energy. Lots of life is a good priority but having the freedom to corpse explode and summon without needing a mana pot IV is fun.
     
  8. HCTwinJava

    HCTwinJava IncGamers Member

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    Some comments:

    - 1 pt in CE is good enough if you use it (with +skills) only occasionally, or if you use it only against tightly grouped monsters like cows (in cow levels the small radius of your low-lvl CE isn't a big problem).

    - 1 pt in Lower Resist is okay, but unless your necro does considerable elemental dmg (psn, I mean), it's good only for other players, like sorc or trapsins when you party with them. Lower Resist helps your skelly mages for sure, but not as much as Amp or Decrepify helps your warriors/merc/golem. The actually dmg from 1 hit of your Might merc is probably bigger than the total dmg in 1 sec of your entire mage group: so, who are you gonna help with, merc or mages?

    Note: physical immune is no issue to a typical necro, who can remove that with ease.


    - if your necro is a pure summoner, you will surely start to have a lot of remaining skill pts after about lvl 80. If you are in HC, I'd recommend putting some such pts in Bone Walls to raise it to at least lvl 10+. If you are in SC, you don't really need B Armor at all - though 1 pt in it and 1 pt in B Wall are never wasted. In SC, you can put most of your remaining pts in CE, raising to lvl 10+.

    - The difference between lvl 1 CE (with some +skills) and lvl 20 CE (with same +skills) is remarkable. With high lvl CE, you can effectively use it virtually everywhere (well, not on Arreat Summit or against ACT2/3/5 act bosses). Very low-lvl CE is ineffective in many places in a large game on Ladder. In a 1 player game, lvl 1 CE with some +skills feels better than in an 8ppl ladder game. However, lvl 20 CE is significantly more powerful in a smaller game.

    - My recent pure summoner (on SCL) could have 39 minions at lvl 80: 12 warriors + 12 mages + 13 revives + 1 golem + 1 merc = 39. Nothing felt hard to him in any Hell game. But in 8ppl games, his killing speed in Hell wasn't good, though his lvl 15+ CE helped a lot, so he wasn't too slow either. Right now (lvl 84), he only has 2 problems: piercing lightening from Black Souls and their kind can kill him (though this has not happened to any of my chars); he's still using mediocre gear, just better than pure junk. I plan to get his major summon skills to lvl 40+ and get CE to about lvl 30, once I have a chance. Once done, he will be a safe haven in Hell and a remarkable killing machine in any game.


    - if you choose to use mages/CE, you're not PvP. My comments are limited to PvM.
     
  9. batuchka

    batuchka IncGamers Member

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    Hmm my first mf necro this ladder season (bone/summon) lived thru nasty serial Black Souls sniping by slapping on wizardspike + t-gods combo for 85% lightning resist and lightning absorb :p Also Dim Vision those souls mean they cannot kill merc and minions too and go melee mode hehe. The very few/rare PIs that amplify damage curse could not break physical immunity from my experience are superuniques of the ghost kind and occasionally the Stygians superuniqs. Good luck and cheers!
     
  10. HCTwinJava

    HCTwinJava IncGamers Member

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    you just reminded me of my remote memory about my first 1.10 HCL necro, who was untwinked and solo'ed Hell, and was ranked not very low on ladder when I completely stopped playing him. He had a very scary time in one of the caves in Hell act5: he couldn't break PI of 2 bosses (1 was a ghost) - or say I don't think he could, which is really rare. perhaps got IM'ed, his merc just disappeared, half of his army gone in 1 sec, his life orb dropping, he had to drink potions while fleeing and flee while drinking potions. I used to use Decrepify instead of Amp almost all the time in HC unless want to boost the effect of CE. I don't remember why my HCL summoners did not have problems with black (in act4, or burning or whatever they are called in act5) souls. None of my summoners had more than 60 str. T-God's is just too heavy. Wisp is okay and best, but never found one for them.
     

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