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Experts: Why Meteor and not Firewall?

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by azeker1, Mar 10, 2005.

  1. azeker1

    azeker1 Diabloii.Net Member

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    Experts: Why Meteor and not Firewall?

    OK, to all you sorceress experts out there, I am confused. Everyone seems to be in favor of a Meteorb build for good MFing and I have some decent MF gear, so my plan is to make an MFing sorc. My question is this: Why not pick Firewall instead of Meteor for my fire attack?

    My thinking is this, I don't need to spend points in synergies for an effective FW (only 22 pts. to max with prereqs and another 20 for FM = 42) and it has no casting delay (which I hate). At lvl 20 with maxed FM it averages 3377-3439 per second for 3.6 seconds across 30 yards. The same number of points spent in Meteor (25 pts. to max and another 17 for FM = 42) does 2313-2467 over 4 yds. and then a measly 624-681 per second.

    Granted, Meteor is cheaper mana-wise (26 vs. 41 when maxed), but if I can handle the extra mana cost, I can start pumping the skill 6 levels earlier for survivability early on, save 3 skill points on the inital skills AND save all the synergy points required to make Meteor really effective. That means I can have a maxed FireWall and a maxed Frozen Orb for only 47 Points. After 1 in warmth, static, telekineseis, and teleport. I am only at 51 points and I can start pumping Fire (20) and Cold (17) masteries. Though FW may not do the damage of a fully synergized Meteor, this build finishes at only 85 points or lvl 74 with quests... As opposed to the standard build which doesn't finish until 101 points are earned at lvl 90! I don't know that I will ever get that high.

    You folks are all very knowledgeable, so please tell me what am I missing?
     
  2. Cadet

    Cadet Diabloii.Net Member

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    Probably because Meteor does all that damage in a concentrated area, rather than wasted along a 30 yard line that the enemy takes up maybe two squares of. And yes, there is a delay for Firewall.
     
  3. Chimaira

    Chimaira Diabloii.Net Member

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    With a couple of +skills meteor will also get better benefits from its +% enhanced damage from its synergies..I tried my old 1.09 Meteor sorc (with lots of +1fire skills grand charms) and her damage was about 15k. Also Firewall is difficult to aim properly as Cadet says... meteor is kind of tricky too because of the delay but still easier.. also the monsters will go into hit recovery mode when hit by the meteor which will benefit your merc when he is being mobbed.
     
  4. azeker1

    azeker1 Diabloii.Net Member

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    Clarification

    Cadet, you are right, of course. Both have a casting delay or are "timered". I'm sorry for not being clear. The delay I was referring to is the attack delay (I don't know if there is an offical term for this, sorry). When you cast Firewall, you can't cast it again until the timer expires, but the Firewall itself appears immediately. Meteor, on the other hand, doesn't actually hit anything until a couple of seconds pass (attack delay?), in addition to having a spell timer before you can cast it again.

    As for the 30 yards of fire, I suppose it can indeed be a "waste" if not placed correctly, but when dropped over a line of monsters, it can get a whole slew of baddies, whereas the 4 yard radius can only get a few no matter how well you aim it. My point here is simply that either one can be aimed well or poorly, but Meteor can never get more than 4 yards worth of critters, no matter how well it is aimed, but Firewall--if aimed well--can (ideally) get 30 yards of naughtiness.

    Or so it seems to me. If I am missing something, please let me know.

    As for Chimaira's comment about the hit recovery issue, I did not realize that. I take it that FW does not trigger the hit recovery animation? Is that correct??
     
  5. Sartok

    Sartok Diabloii.Net Member

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    The thing that most people like is...

    Try to get monsters to stand still for 3 seconds... good luck. A meteor deals its damage at one instant. Making it much more effective in many instances when those pesky monsters just don't stop moving around.
     
  6. wise_man

    wise_man Diabloii.Net Member

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    First of all, FireWall does have a casting delay.

    That said, I also prefer FireWall, but can easily explain its inpopularity:
    1. It takes skill and experience to use efficiently.
    2. Meteor does less damage per point, but you can pump more points into it (by synergies).

    As I stated I do reccommend it if you have a good place for the saved points. With time you'll get the hang of it by predicting monsters walking path (you control it by your own place - they walk towards you), by using the monster-lock, by using all sorts of moat tricks, by using a merc to tank, or even by beating a monster in melee range because your FireWall kills faster then its attacks (only for max-block).
     
  7. Liliel

    Liliel Diabloii.Net Member

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    I wouldn't recommend using FW will FO, simply because I kinda think of them both as backup skills rather than main attacks. Where would the spare points go?

    But FW does make a good skill if you can use it. Easiest way is to tie them up with your merc. Another trick I've used is to place a firewall in front of them, then when they walk into it you teleport so that the monster will walk along the firewall to get to you (works best if they're slowed or chilled).
     
  8. Chimaira

    Chimaira Diabloii.Net Member

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    Yes or at least I've never seen it..
     
  9. TheDiceman

    TheDiceman Diabloii.Net Member

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    I have a FO/FW sorc and she is actually a lot of fun to play. Use FO to slow them down and FW to kill them. It isn't the fasted killing method, but i just have mroe fun iwth FW than with Meteor.
     
  10. Miladys-Knight

    Miladys-Knight Diabloii.Net Member

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    I've used them both and here are a couple points.

    1. To kill the monsters you have to keep them in the firewall. The best way to do this is not to drop it directly on them (as they will just walk out of it) but to drop it at a 90 degree angle from your sorc so that the wall parallels the left or right side of your sorc causing the monsters to walk through it to get to you. This takes some practice to master. You can use a holy freeze merc to keep them still and attack them then you can drop the wall in the "usual" manner.

    2. Fire wall gives you a er, well, wall of fire. The monsters do not attack in a "wall" formation but instead surround you or your merc in a circle. Let us use the merc as an example with the fire wall you may be able to get 3 of them (the ones engaging the front of your merc). With meteor the explosion and the burn will get the entire swarm if you targeted your merc with the meteor.
     
  11. theBlackKnight

    theBlackKnight Diabloii.Net Member

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    I thought firewall was for trimages. .
     
  12. Miladys-Knight

    Miladys-Knight Diabloii.Net Member

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    You can do with fire wall what others folks do with Frozen orb. Its a good spell for a secondary tree. If you have the skill to use fire wall and an eschutas a build with:

    20 Lightening
    20 Chain Lightening
    20 Lightening mastery
    20 Fire wall
    20 Fire mastery

    Will be viable.
     
  13. wise_man

    wise_man Diabloii.Net Member

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    and so will the Blizz/FW build, which consist of:

    COLD
    Max Blizz
    Max Ice Blast
    15 CM
    1 Shiver Armor

    FIRE
    Max FW
    10 FM

    LIGHTNING
    1 Static Field
    1 Teleport

    1 in all preqs.

    (rest in Glacial Spike)
     
  14. lonnie913

    lonnie913 Diabloii.Net Member

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    i think an important point is being missed here. you compare meteor/firewall damage based on similar number of skill points. but very few people use only 40 point on meteor (meteor/mastery). the whole of point of meteor is that it has fireball as a synergy. so you get a big fireball and a HUGE meteor. (my old mf sorc had 12k meteor...way more than firewall can hope for).
     
  15. sasja

    sasja Diabloii.Net Member

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    Exactly. Meteor and Fireball together are an excellent team: they add to each other's damage and work perfectly in tandem: Meteor - x Fireballs in the dead period - Meteor - etc. Yes, the point cost is higher (max two skills instead of one), but you get something a lot more powerful, point for point.

    Go for Firewall only if you're too strapped for points to get both Meteor and Fireball - e.g. if you're an Archmage or need two skills maxed in lightning.
     
  16. Fearoth

    Fearoth Diabloii.Net Member

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    A good merc makes firewall very viable IMO, (A merc using Holy Freeze aura with reapers toll comes to mind), decrepified and chilled monsters can actually stay in the fire for a long time even if they are moving,+such merc can really tank anything and hold it in the firewall.
     
  17. yuqing

    yuqing Diabloii.Net Member

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    Ok, im not going to join in on the war of which is better but im going to point out why Meteorb sorcs use meteor, well you see meteorb is just a name, their primary fire attack is acaually more fireball then it is meteor, rather fireball also convinently powers up meteor, plus most mfer sorcs hunt bosses, so firewall might seem pretty pointless, correct me if im wrong, but the impact plus dmg per second of a few meteors add up to be more then a firewall of the same level
     
  18. lonnie913

    lonnie913 Diabloii.Net Member

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    just a nitpick...whether a player uses fireball or meteor more is definitely a playstyle preference. against really tough, huge mobs (who are also beefed up by 7 other palyers in the game) i will often rain down meteors and use glacial spike between them to prevent my mercenary from being swarmed and killed. dead merc = dead sorc. although in single player mode...it is just quicker to fireball things to death.
     
  19. Liliel

    Liliel Diabloii.Net Member

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    Are you sure about that?

    I'm pretty sure the only way Firewall's FULL damage can be beaten is with ALL of Meteor's synergy maxed (including Inferno), and even then, Meteor never wins by much.
     
  20. Chimaira

    Chimaira Diabloii.Net Member

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    Meteor definitely does more damage than Firewall... at higher levels + synergies it totally beats the crap out of Firewall.. 12K can be reached and even higher is possible. Even without all the synergies maxed I still think that Meteor will do roughly the same damage as Firewall.
     

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