Everyone help me with an avenger super build!

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Greekscreech

Diabloii.Net Member
Everyone help me with an avenger super build!

Hi Everyone.

I'm working on an avenger build and im interested in what you all think. Please post notes on my build and, other items/ variations that you think would be better. I don't want to consider cost, the sky is the limit. I like the whole theme of auras from items and % chance of casting. Thanks...

20 vengance
19 resist fire
19 resist cold
19 resist lightning
20 conviction
1 holy shield

Items
Dream Helm
Enigma
Pheonix, Dragon, or Exile shield
Grief, Breath of the Dying, or Doom weapon
verdungos's, (snow clash for fun)
Dracul's or Laying of the Hands
Gore Riders
Raven Frost
Carrion Wind or Wisp projector
Metalgrid

Switch
Call to Arms
Spirit

Act 1 norm fire merc
Dream helm
Ice bow
Dragon shield

Questions that I am still unsure about:
Does the enhanced dammage of phoenix or other items like steelrend affect vengance?
Is it true that grief's dammage doesn't affect vengance?
Enhanced damage from weapons adds to vengance right?
Is it true that conviction doesn't lower poison resists?
Is it true that items that add to elemental skill dam, including raimbow facets, add to the elements dammage in convictioon?
Which is better, fire or cold act 1 merc for this build?
My merc will die alot won't she?
Should I be more worried about adding to skills?
Holy Shield?
Should I max conviction? Does it cap off? When?
Whats the deal with items that lower enemy resistances? How does that relate to conviction?
What can I do with salvation? Can I sacrifice some conviction for it?
Ok, Let me have it!
 

Chimaira

Diabloii.Net Member
Out of the weapons you propose I'd pick Breath Of The Dying...It's fast and has huge damage and some nice +stats. I wouldn't pick Doom, since the damage isn't all that good and you already have the Holy Freeze aura from your merc. Last Wish or Death could also be very nice, but only if you got a Fanatiscism aura from Faith on your act 1 merc.

Greekscreech said:
Act 1 norm fire merc
Dream helm
Ice bow
Dragon shield
Act 1 mercenaries can't use shields...so I'm guessing it's armor. I'd rather pick an act 2 mercenary...A Holy Freeze one with Pride maybe, or Might/Defiance with Doom. I like having another tank with me.

Greekscreech said:
Does the enhanced dammage of phoenix or other items like steelrend affect vengance?
It doesn't affect Vengeance...it will enhance your weapons damage in the same way that Vengeance does, the output will just be physical damage instead of elemental.

Greekscreech said:
Is it true that grief's dammage doesn't affect vengance?
Yes. Or at least the added +xxx damage mod, I guess the actual weapon damage from the item you make Grief in will still count, although it's so small it doesn't really matter. Don't pick Grief.

Greekscreech said:
Enhanced damage from weapons adds to vengance right?
It enhances your weapon damage, which will then be further enhanced by Vengeance, so yes.

Greekscreech said:
Is it true that conviction doesn't lower poison resists?
Yes, just the 3 main elements.

Greekscreech said:
Is it true that items that add to elemental skill dam, including raimbow facets, add to the elements dammage in convictioon?
I'm not 100% sure but I can't see no reason why not.

Greekscreech said:
Which is better, fire or cold act 1 merc for this build?
I'd take fire since you're probably going to use an Ice bow. Or better yet an act 2 mercenary:)

Greekscreech said:
My merc will die alot won't she?
Probably. Act 1 mercs are very fragile, but they are also pretty good at staying out of the fray, so if you play carefully it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Greekscreech said:
Should I be more worried about adding to skills?
+skills usually don't benefit melee builds all that much, and the Avenger is no exception. +skills are very nice, but there are other more important mods you need to get first, so don't worry to much about them.

Greekscreech said:
Holy Shield?
Erhmmm...Yes. I'd probably allocate a few more points into Holy Shield. You don't really have a lot of +skills (only the +2 from Enigma) and Holy Shield will give you some nice extra defence and nice extra block.

Greekscreech said:
Should I max conviction? Does it cap off? When?
Depends on how many +skills you get...Conviction is capped at lvl 25 where it gives -150% enemy resists, so if you can get more than +5 skills it's not a good idea to max it, but since that's kind of a hassle, you should probably max it.

Greekscreech said:
Whats the deal with items that lower enemy resistances? How does that relate to conviction?
Since Conviction already lowers monsters resistance a LOT, you don't really need other sources of -%enemy resists. Most monsters that aren't immune, will have -100% resists or very close to that. Immune monsters can be broken by Conviction, but at a reduced efficiency, meaning they won't have -100% resists (lowest possible). This is where additional -%enemy resists could have an effect, but it would definitely not be worth it, in my opinion.

Greekscreech said:
What can I do with salvation? Can I sacrifice some conviction for it?
You can get a whole lot of resists:) I wouldn't sacrifice Conviction for it, since Conviction's -enemy resists will do more damage than Salvation's Vengeance synergy. Still it's nice to have some points in it, because of the added Vengeance damage and because it's a very sweet aura to put on in sticky situations, or if your resists aren't very good.

Also welcome to the forums:)
 

HeavAngel

Paladin Moderator
Greekscreech, welcome to the forum :)

Chimaira,
Now, that's the first time I've seen it done your way of answering on this forum.
I like the way you took out your time to point out each point you were making. gj :thumbsup:
 

Greekscreech

Diabloii.Net Member
Re:

Ok,
First of all, you guessed right, it is armor for the merc dragon. Sorry 'bout that.

Now I was thinking that Cold act 1 merc would be better because of the +25-30 cold skill dammage that ice gives her. What do you think?

Would Fanat from my Rogue using Faith affect my Vengance, or just my physical Dammage?

Are most of my resists going to come from Charms with the equiptment I'm using? Thats how it feels.

Which runeword shield should I use? Whatever I chose I'm putting into a vortex right? Can HoZ compete with the runewords?

Which gloves and 2nd ring?

Stat points? Enough Dex for &% % block right? Strength? Is it worth adding for dammage? It doesn't effect the vengance dam right? If I'm adding str just for item requirements, Should I account for str bonuses from items? Enigma and botd would give me over 100 str. Does that mean I should only add enough to str to wear my (currently wyrmhide) enigma? And then rest to vit.

Thaks so much for the help and the welcomes. I'm not sure why it took me so long to use these forums, but they're great!

(And check out the poll! A lot of different opinions. I was expecting BotD to wipe the floor with the others. I wonder why its so close and diverse...)
 

Chimaira

Diabloii.Net Member
Greekscreech said:
Now I was thinking that Cold act 1 merc would be better because of the +25-30 cold skill dammage that ice gives her. What do you think?
I don't really know...I think that her damage will be mainly physical, so I don't think it matters all that much, but either way both Ice and Faith are awesome bows so you can't really go wrong:)

Greekscreech said:
Would Fanat from my Rogue using Faith affect my Vengance, or just my physical Dammage?
The Fanatiscism aura will boost the physical damage of your weapon, and not give any elemental damage.

Greekscreech said:
Are most of my resists going to come from Charms with the equiptment I'm using? Thats how it feels.
Looks that way...You could try Chains Of Honor, which is is an awesome melee armor and will make maxing your resists a breeze.

Greekscreech said:
Which runeword shield should I use? Whatever I chose I'm putting into a vortex right? Can HoZ compete with the runewords?
I don't really like Dragon shields all that much, Exile would be better in my opinion. You'd be quite a tank with all that defence and Lifetap + it has a cool looking aura:). HOZ is still a very good shield! Don't know about the shield, but Vortex does give the most defence, which is kind of the point with Exile...

Greekscreech said:
Which gloves and 2nd ring?
I'd take Laying Of Hands...if you're going to use Exile you already have %chance to cast Lifetap, and Laying Of Hands gives nice fire resist and the huge bonus damage to demons...not to mention chance to cast Holy Bolt. Doesn't do anything but looks nice. 2nd ring should probably be a good rare one, preferrably with some mana leech to keep Vengeance going.

Greekscreech said:
Stat points? Enough Dex for &% % block right? Strength? Is it worth adding for dammage? It doesn't effect the vengance dam right? If I'm adding str just for item requirements, Should I account for str bonuses from items? Enigma and botd would give me over 100 str. Does that mean I should only add enough to str to wear my (currently wyrmhide) enigma? And then rest to vit.
Enough strength for gear and enough dex for max block, you've got it right. I don't think it's worth adding strength for extra damage. You're already doing a lot of damage, so better focus on some life, can't kill anything if you are dead. Adding strength will give you more physical damage (1% per point) and not extra elemental damage. Most people want as low strength as possible, so getting just enough to equip your Enigma is a sound plan, but your build isn't ruined by a few extra points in strenght.

Greekscreech said:
Thaks so much for the help and the welcomes. I'm not sure why it took me so long to use these forums, but they're great!
You're welcome and these forums are indeed great!

Greekscreech said:
(And check out the poll! A lot of different opinions. I was expecting BotD to wipe the floor with the others. I wonder why its so close and diverse...)
Breath Of The Dying has huge physical damage compared to most other weapons, and is fast, but it really lacks some special damage modifiers like crushing blow and deadly strike.

HeavÃ…ngel said:
Chimaira,
Now, that's the first time I've seen it done your way of answering on this forum.
I like the way you took out your time to point out each point you were making. gj
Thanks:)
 

schreier

Diabloii.Net Member
Greekscreech said:
Hi Everyone.
20 vengance
19 resist fire
19 resist cold
19 resist lightning
20 conviction
1 holy shield
A couple things to consider here .... first off, vengeance 20 (w/ +skills) eats LOTS and LOTS of mana. You may want to consider leaving it at 1, bringing the resists to 20 and then adding various "utility skills" -- competely your call but something to consider. You will have problems w/ mana in hell at the very least unless you have a TON of mana leech

Greekscreech said:
Items
Dream Helm
Enigma
Pheonix, Dragon, or Exile shield
Grief, Breath of the Dying, or Doom weapon
verdungos's, (snow clash for fun)
Dracul's or Laying of the Hands
Gore Riders
Raven Frost
Carrion Wind or Wisp projector
Metalgrid

Act 1 norm fire merc
Dream helm
Ice bow
Dragon shield
Nice choices overall :) I would consider CoH as armor to help w/ resists. I personally love Doom - but you don't need it if you have holy freeze on your merc. You could do either Doom on an Act II or Ice on an Act I.

Obviously if you have Act II Doom, you can also go w/ either defiance or might as well :)

In this case, I would seriously consider Last Wish. This gives you lvl 17 might, 10% chance of lvl 18 life tap, ITD, good enhanced damage, 60-70% crushing blow, and prevent monster heal. Obviously if you go w/ this, go w/ doom/defiance merc :)

You may also consider IK gloves & boots for the IAS and other helpful stats, as well as a highlords wrath. This obviously depends on your weapon choice (figure out the IAS breakpt you need)

schreier
 

EIgenwijs99

Diabloii.Net Member
hey
i thought of making a vengeance pala some time ago because i think it's the kewlest but not sure if it would be good in duels and thats where i would be using it. so if it was for duels i would defently use DOOM rw since you will be needing the holy freez aura and you will be synergysing it aswell if i recall good. im not playing ladder so my built was diferent than yours with all the other aura's but try to get many since they all will be synergiesed for extra dmg :). i wont post my built since it was nonl anyway and i don't have the time to look up best ladder built (in my opinion).
cheers eigenwijs
(if it is for pvp 4 sure get doom rw or atleast in your stash for dueling smiters, zealers and all other chars you would realy want to get slowed)
i don't know how much +skills you got but don't waste points on convic over lvl25 the -%def wont be so good as the extra dmg/ def depending on your preference ( GO FOR THE DMG but i wont realy doubt you would prefer def :p ) GOGOGO vengeance pala 4 the win
( EDIT ONE MILION AND EIGHT)
i would go 20 vengeance it gives so much more dmg than it's synergy's i think it would cost more mana having to hit 20 times instead of 3 times with full vengeance.
EDIT ONE MILION AND NINE omfg
i wouldn't go for any curses since they wont help much your goal is to kill in 1-3 hits if your any good your curse wont even trigger ( ONLY TAKE MY ADVICE IF IT IS PVP! ) I suxxor @ pvm the newb himself, pvp for the total ownage.
i also wouldn't go for salvation just switch to your the pwnzor almost maxed out single res aura's since they give +max res aswell as more to single res.
and make sure you got full res to take advantage of that passive skills you got :) omfg this was like edit 2 milion
EDIT 2milion one
i would go for blood crafted gloves with 20ias high cb and resi or stats
for boots some rares with res and FHR again in PVP you will be needed some deacent FHR since you wanna kill as fast as poseble if you can't get hold of rares those assa boots are quite nice except if ya don't have the str
 
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