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Eth 267% Rune Master...now, what to socket?

Discussion in 'Theorycrafting and Statistics' started by Zroc, Mar 24, 2004.

  1. Zroc

    Zroc IncGamers Member

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    Eth 267% Rune Master...now, what to socket?

    Looks very impressive...I'm thinking about sticking this on a pvp charger.
    My question is, what to socket it with?
    1 Zod, obviously...but the other four...

    Ber- 20% Crushing Blow? Not sure how effective crushing blow actually is in pvp...it's capped at 1/10 against players, and then reduced by physical resistance, no? Meaning against 2000 life, it'd do 100 damage against 50% dr?

    Ohm- 50% Enhanced Damage? Seems like a good choice, being IAS doesn't really seem to matter for charge...

    Lo- 20% Deadly Strike? Doubling my total physical damage seems like a good thing to me, particularly with a massive damage skill like charge. Any cavets/bugs I should be aware of here? Someone told me there's some cap/divisor on deadly strike, but I thought that was only when one had critical strike (which I won't)...

    Um- 25% Open Wounds? I kinda like this in pvp, as it seems to do a little over 500 damage unresistable against players...

    Any other options?

    I'd dig your thoughts on it...this is kind've a project for me, and I'd like your ideas on the best runes or combos to go with on this.
    Thanks!
     
  2. Azonian

    Azonian IncGamers Member

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    4 slots open 1 taken by zod

    I'd say find the break points for either zealing...or charge...since i've made a charge pvp pally and having a slow weapon it annoying to say the least. Probably use a LO x 2 and ias/ed jewels on other 2 slots... 40% for x2 damage of physcial damage...of a 1000% ed + charge is better then adding 50% to the base weapon damage (412(wp damage) x 1300% )+ str bonus (200 average str=484 i think))vs ((363 x 1300%) + str) x ((% ds) x 2)

    5840 w/ ohm vs 7284 w/ 1 Lo (this the average damage calculated using 20% x 2 = .4 or 40% OVERALL more damage on average since with only 1 LO it takes effect 20% of the time..i averaged the times it would take effect over all the times it hits... if you want the total if it only goes off....then its

    5840 w/ ohm vs 5200+ and 10400 if ds goes off

    Hope this helps you

    The cap is 100% having more then 100% doesnt do anything
     
  3. YomoKimyata

    YomoKimyata IncGamers Member

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    Lo certainly looks like your best bet here, but how many is the question

    As always, depends on the rest of your equipment and where you are getting DS from. Then you need to ask yourself if you want to maximize your chances of DS, or are willing to have a lower percentage of DS for a higher minimum damage.

    Ex: assuming no other equipment with DS

    Zod + 4x LO gives you an 80% chance to hit for 364-726 base damage and a 20% chance to hit for 182-363 base damage (numbers approx, since I don't feel like looking up the exact formulae right now)

    Zod + 3xOhm + Lo gives you a 20% chance to hit for 512-1024 base and an 80% chance to hit for 256-512 base.

    Your "average" damage is higher in the first case, but your max is significantly higher in the second.

    I would probably use Highlords and Gore Riders and 2x LO and 2x OHM. Nice axe, btw :rant:
     
  4. Azonian

    Azonian IncGamers Member

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    hey yomo...i dont think you got deadly strike quite right...the deadly strike x2 damage takes effect after all your skills ed% is added up... Its not based directly on the base damage of your weapon...thats why its so much better...

    if you do 4 LO's instead of 5 ohms..heres your difference

    561 * 1400%(=14)+str bonus (1122 (200 str avg)) (lvl 20 charged with maxed synergies) =8976 4 ohms

    ((363 * 1400%(=14)) +str bonus(726))* 9/5 (4/5 times will be double damage) (Averaged DS over all hits) = 10454 4 LO's

    Pretty sure most of my math is right...correct me if i'm wrong....

    Edit: Heres 1 ohm 3 LO = 10547
    2 ohm 2 LO = 10348
    3 ohm 1 LO = 9811

    Err i coreected myself :) Looks like for overall average 1 ohm +3 LO +zod is your best average
     
  5. Zroc

    Zroc IncGamers Member

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    Azonian: Charge is affected by IAS? All I'd heard is that it was not, and I can't even find a calc that has charge listed as a skill to check for...

    YomoKimyata: That is exactly what I was thinking...I'm lvl 90, and Highlords gives me 33% DS, and Gore Riders 15% DS, so 48% total there. Two Lo's giving me **% seems awful attractive...the other thing I was thinking is one Lo to give me a still-healthy 68% and going 3 ohms.

    My average damage with charge right now is right at 7600, and this is about what it'd be if I stuck two ohms in the eth rune master. Take the .17 hit pvp hit, and it's 1292, and then assume 50% dr on the player, we're looking at 646 average damage (man, that makes me sick).

    So I'm taking the deadly strike mod to equal 646 damage for me...am I thinking correctly on this?

    If I am...I'm assuming there is no way to one-hit kill a decent pvp player. Even if my average damage was 10000 (not likely), the .17 hit takes that to 1700, and 50% dr takes that to 850. Deadly strike would make that 1700...well, most pvp have at LEAST 2000 life...

    Which brings me back to the original question. Bers seem out of the question...ohms seem nice, but with that big ol' .17 hit and subsequent 50% dr hit, do ohms really do anything? Assume an ohm adds 1000 to my average damage...well that's effectively 1000 x .17= 170, divided by 2 = 85 damage? Yuck...

    Lo potentially can do 600-650 average damage for me, which is certianly nice. However, I would need to go gores and highlord's, in my opinion, to make this pay off. With a pair of ravens, this makes my AR 8000...is this enough to hit in pvp?? I typically go with an angelic ammy and ring, which takes my AR to a pretty respectable 14000...two angelic rings take me to over 18000. How much AR is enough for pvp?

    That's one thing the runemaster allows me to do...not use raven, as rune master carries the cannot be frozen mod. Actually, because I wear guardian angel, it also cuts the cold damage I take in half by pushing my cold resist from 90% to 95%, which I find quite nice.

    Now, what about um?? From all I can tell, open wounds seems to cause about 520 unresistable damage. If I went 4 ums in this thing, I'd trigger OW 100%. Is this a good idea? In this case, even my crappy smite would pack a punch...this would pretty much turn me into a hit and run player...
    Problem there is...if I do that, I might as well get a NON-eth runemaster, and go 4 ums and an eth rune for the -25% target defense, no?

    Grrrr....help...
     
  6. Zroc

    Zroc IncGamers Member

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    Side-rant: man, thinking about all this...is a pvp charger just a waste of time? I mean, that big damage looks nice on the screen and all, but 10000 damage pretty much equals 850 in pvp.
    And that's IF I get by their defense...or energy shield...or 75% block...or etc.

    Am I wasting my time here?
    End-rant...I still wanna explore the above, as it's kinda interesting, if not futile ;)
     
  7. Azonian

    Azonian IncGamers Member

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    I woulda had this up sooner but my comp is being idiotic...had to restart comp at work.... :grrr:

    k lets do some work on your equipment/skills

    higlords = 33% ds at lvl 90, +1 all skills
    goreriders= 15% ds 15% cb
    helm unknown=you can use guillmanes or something like its spelling 15% ds and 35% cb
    anni = +1 skills
    bul kathos ring? +1 possible
    Guardian angel = +1 skills

    +3 skills
    63% ds
    50% cb

    lvl 22 charge and 20 in both synergies = 1450%
    lvl 22 fanat = 424%

    total ed is 1874% = x18.74 add +1 for base damage for x19.74 total
    I'm guessing an average str of 200 ? = 1022 str damage bonus (based off weapon with 4 ohms its 924 for 3 ohms)

    I'm saying 1 LO and 3 ohms...you could also do 2 LO's and 2 OHM's we'll compare

    with 1 LO and 3 OHM's
    Base weapon damage is 99 (eth ettin)
    411% ed to weapon +100% for base = 511 for total weapon damage

    (511 * 19.74) + 1022(str damage bonus) = 11,109 base max damage

    include ds

    11109 *9 / 5 (average of 4/5 hits will be double damage and 1 will be normal damage so 4x2 +1=9

    total max average damage over 5 hits = 19,996 per hit average...or 22,218 damage for 1 hit ds max damage..

    take into account pvp 22,218 * 0.17 = 3,777
    take into account for 50% dr = 1888 max damage on a ds strike

    with 2 LO for 100% ds and 2 ohms
    Max damage per hit with ds = 20087
    max damage pvp 50% dr = 1707

    cb also will do 1/10 of the enemies hp in pvp and dr does affect this....so with 50% dr its 1/20 (damage varies on how many hp the target has) so it may appear to be a x4 low end damage...but its probably not...this is still in debate...I hope this helps...

    Oh and Ias doesnt affect charge skill itself...but once you have charged...say you charge em into a corner or obstacle...you charge again...and you cant move to do the run animation so you only do a normal attack..if the attackie..is using anything like holy freeze related or slow target...you attack at a fricken pain in the *** slow pace...
     
  8. YomoKimyata

    YomoKimyata IncGamers Member

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    zroc, i feel your pain. it is hard when you find/acquire "the ultimate melee weapon" (mine is here: www.agonybowl.com/diablo/screenshot015.bmp) and figuring out what to do with it. I suggest picking something you like and doing it! Charge is still a little bugged last I heard, so you might want to look at some sort of hybrid paladin, but you cannot go wrong with any melee class with this bad boy.

    In the best of all possible worlds, I personally would socket with zod, 2x LO and 2x 40/15 IAS, which would work well for any class, any time! you can also use guillame's helm instead of a highlords and keep the angelic set

    Azonian, it all works out the same -- i just didn't want to bother working out the final damage with all skills and such. lazy, lazy yomo
     
  9. Zroc

    Zroc IncGamers Member

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    Good feedback, guys ;) That's a sick weapon, YomoKimyata.
    K, been playing around a little on the character...
    The eth 267% runemaster by itself does 179 to 363.

    I've taken off any damage mod/elemental charms or equipment (damage on char screen is white).

    Atm, my charge damage+fana damage modification percentage is 1643%.
    We'll ignore other equipment for the moment...the reason being, the other equipment like gores, highlords, etc. will have the same affect no matter what I socket the rune master with...so I'll just stick to the axe itself.

    My damage with that 267% runemaster is 3407-6897, so average damage is 5152.
    5152 times .17 is 875, cut in half by dr is 437.
    If I add 4 ums and a zod, this gives me 100% open wounds...this adds 533 pure, unresistable, bone-shield/energy-shield bypassing damage.
    So per hit, I would do 970 damage...not too bad.

    K, now, adding 3 ohms and a Lo would give me a 253-511 rune master.
    My charge damage then should be roughly 4800-9700, 7250 average.
    7250 times .17 is 1232, cut in half is 616. This would be my non-DS'd damage.

    (For reference, my charge damage with a 374% eth BotD zerker equiped is 3352-9899, average of 6625, so the above looks about right...certainly close enough).

    Ok, so the Lo gives me 20% deadly strike, so every 5 hits I get that 616 doubled to 1232. So I'll go 4 times 616 = 2464, add that to 1232 to get 3696, and then divide that buy 5 to get 739.2 average damage.


    And there it is.
    If I go 4 um's and a zod, I will do 970 damage per hit.
    If I go zod, 3 ohms, and a Lo, I will do 739.2 per hit.
    And again, that 533 doesn't get absorbed by ES or boneshield...this is actually a pretty big factor (I was doing some testing on a max-ES max telekinesis friend...the results were rather clear).

    Pretty stunning, really.

    For that matter, I have a NON-eth 264 5-socket rune master...with it equiped I do 2280-4560, 3420 average.
    3420 times .17 is 581, cut in half is 290 damage.
    If I 4-um'd that, it'd add 533 damage, for 823 damage.

    If I'm doing this right, I can do more damage with a non-eth 4-um'd rune master than with an eth 3 ohm'd 1 Lo'd rune master. And again, that doesn't get absorbed by ES or bone shield.

    Wow.
    Side benefit? If I want to smite, I will do 533 damage with a 4-um'd rune master.

    Why do I suddenly think I should just take that 5 socket non-eth runemaster and put 3 um's and 2 shaels in it (to help smite), and wear gore riders?

    Ya'll check me on this...I think I'm correct on it, and it's kind've depressing, really. That .17 pvp hit coupled with 50% damage reduction kinda takes the wind out of the sails of going uber damage. I've been goofing around with a friend checking damages with a botd zerker versus a malice weapon (100% open wounds), and what I figured above certainly seems to be true...
     
  10. Azonian

    Azonian IncGamers Member

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    You decided not to use highlords, goreriders, or guilimanes face it looks like?
    Cuz...yeah you can take your average hit...but...if you use the stuff mentioned above...you ds jumps to at least 83% which means for the most part...i would calculate based off a 1hit kill....and that kill shot would have to be on a ds hit..which will be 4/5 hits...not too bad as far as consistency...i've seen people who have a too hit % less that 83% :)
    If you did it the way i did...i think your average damage goes up to like uhh 1100 after dr and pvp....Then again I think you forgot about using an aura.lol
    Now the next toughie part....you gotta figure out how to hit the guy :) Some pvp will have 30+k defense :) Thats tough to hit with only 7k ar and lvls being the same :grrr:
     
  11. Zroc

    Zroc IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, my fana's only like lvl 10, but it's not going to go up much from there...a 3 ohm/1 Lo runemaster gives me 253-511 damage, 382 average, and .17 then 50% of that is 64 damage. You can pretty much tell that by your your factor of 19.74% for 1874% ED against mine of 19.01 for my current 1643% ED.

    My point on highlords/guilimanes/goreriders is that, they'll have the same affect no matter what I socket. If I use those three with a 4 um'd runemaster, well then I'm still going to have 63% DS.
    Like, for example, say I'm level 94 (for simplicity) and get 35% from Highlords, and use Gore Riders (15%).
    My damage with that 267% runemaster is 3407-6897, so average damage is 5152.
    5152 times .17 is 875, cut in half by dr is 437.
    50% DS, so half the time I do 874, half the time 437, so average hit 655.
    If I add 4 ums and a zod, this gives me 100% open wounds...this adds 533 pure, unresistable, bone-shield/energy-shield bypassing damage.
    So per hit, I would do 1188 damage.

    See what I'm saying there? The kicker is, a good ES or a bone armor will eat up a lot of that pure physical (almost all with ES), while the open wounds will pass right through.

    VERY good point on the AR...this is why I'm trying to exclude Highlords all together. This is also a big factor of why I'm thinking um's as well. If I use Highlord's and two ravens, my AR is around 7900. If I use Angelic ammy and ring, it's like 12500...two rings jumps to 17000. It's certainly a lot easier to hit a barb with 17000 AR than 7900 AR. And the runemaster covers my can't be frozen mod...

    Speaking of hitting, again, having um's in that runemaster has a HUGE benefit...if I smite, and that ALWAYS hits, I will do 533 damage no matter what. With 3 ohms/1 Lo, smite does nothing. I actually looked into going um's on advice from a smiter ;)

    So what I think I'm going to do with the eth rune master is...drum roll...
    Go Zod, 3 Um's, and a 40ED/15 IAS jewel and go gore riders. I wear a 2 socket Crown of Ages with 30 resists and 14% DR, and I socketed that with two really nice 15% IAS/15 All Resist jewels, so I have 30 IAS and 60 resists from my helm. That 15% IAS hits a smite breakpoint with or without that helm, so it seems like a good move (even though this is a crappy smite-speed weapon). Smite won't be my main attack, though...I will do one smite when charge misses, then charge outta there.

    End result (with charms and stuff back on)...I'll basically do about 1100 if I hit with charge, and about 600 if I don't (a quick smite and retreat).

    Whatd'ya think?
     
  12. Azonian

    Azonian IncGamers Member

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    this open wounds idea....how long does it take for you to do this 500+ damage? I thought the damage was done over a period of 10 secs?
     
  13. crow_vii

    crow_vii IncGamers Member

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    I myself love openwounds, I still use a fury scourge to great effet. But putting Um rune's in feel's like a mistake for this weapon. First thing, takes 8 seconds to get that 500ish dmg. That's alot of running around like a yahoo. Personally, I feel if you are constantly, or in relative constant contact with your opponent, you can usually get openwounds to trigger again before it finishes. But with a weapon like this, you want to K.O. your opponent. You want them to be stunlocked. 2xLo+2xias/ed jewel (or 2xohm instead of jewels) seems optimal for most builds imo. If you have the 5 socket noneth, use that for your mass open wounds weapon. If you are still using goreriders, and maybe add something like dracul's, 35% open wounds seems reasnable, but most good pvpers i know will go deadly over openwounds every time. Otherwise you simply aren't reaching the maximum potential of this weapon. Of course, for shock value you could 4ohm this puppy and get 467%ed, well over any botd. But for different gear options, 2xLo gives you alot more choices.
     

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