enigma vs. chains: a look at gains and losses

ploof

Diabloii.Net Member
enigma vs. chains: a look at gains and losses

CHAINS of HONOR

+2 To All Skills
+200% Damage To Demons
+100% Damage To Undead
8% Life Stolen Per Hit
+70% Enhanced Defense
+20 To Strength
Replenish Life +7
All Resistances +65
Damage Reduced By 8%
25% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

ENIGMA

+2 To All Skills
+45% Faster Run/Walk
+1 To Teleport
+757 Defense
+ (0.75 Per Character Level) +1-74.25 To Strength (Based On Character Level)
Increase Maximum Life 5%
Damage Reduced By 8%
+14 Life After Each Kill
15% Damage Taken Goes To Mana
+ (1 Per Character Level) +1-99% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items (Based On Character Level)

_________________________________________

Ok, so I expect this kind of thread's already been done before, so if I get flamed i guess I deserve it. I was just thinking, would my barb (straight conc/defense, almost same as the guide on the compendium) be better off with chains or with enigma.

Right now with chains he's sitting at 74% fire and full other res, with bc enabled. With enigma I'd have to UM my ss and my arreats, and probably add some fire charms to boot or an annihlus.

So I'm wondering, looking at those two armors, is it worth UM'ing my ss and arreats for a level 1 teleport, 5% life and some bigger defense? Because really, the only important gains i'd get from enigma are those i just mentioned. I mean, running fast is nice, and MF is nice, but I'm not into magic find with barbs and I run fast with chains in my archon anyways.

So i've decided that chains, with it's bigger damage to undead/demons, it's lifesteal, and it's resistances is a better choice.

here's what I'm running:
  • arreats
  • highlords wrath
  • verdungos hearty cord
  • gore riders
  • breath of the dying (non ethereal) beserker axe
  • chains of honor (non superior) archon plate
  • draculs grasp
  • storm shield
  • raven frost
  • carrion wind ring

nothing's socketed yet, aside from those two runewords, and I can solo hell with the gear I'm using, and survive 8 player baal runs no problem with a pot every now and then. I'm running an act2 nm offensive merc and doing a little below 5k damage...

what do you people think? Move to Enigma or stay with the chains of honor?

I'd really appreciate some input :wave:

-ploof
 

m1rage

Diabloii.Net Member
I would say the main deciding point is whether your resists are good in Hell without the need for the bonus from CoH. For me, I have maxed resists in Hell with nearly the same gear setup as you, so I don't really benefit from CoH. For me, the +teleport is vital for public dueling. I can't stress how much of a boon the huge str bonus is from Enigma also, especially as a barb.
 
If you want to go PVP, enigma is really your only option. But if you don't use it much in pvm, then I would use chains since it keeps your resistances up. Just because everyone else uses enigma and you see no real need for it on your char, doesn't mean you have to use it.
 

Halciet

Diabloii.Net Member
Chains are really great and all, but as I've learned over the last few months, Enigma is a lot more useful in general. The biggest bonus from the armor is actually the str/level boost, which lets you run your character with extremely, extremely low str so that you can instead pump more into vit. I'm sure you could chain it up fairly easily using the 20 str on CoH as well, but that 74 you can get from Enig helps out a lot. The damage to mana is nice for whirlers too, and the high defense is great to have as well. You should be able to get max resists without the boost from chains and without wasting your sockets on um's, it just takes a bit of work.

-Hal
 

warlock_666

Diabloii.Net Member
yea my barb has pretty much full resist (all except cold which is at 69 or something) and i use enigma. Anihilus is a big help with mine giving 18 all resist and i also have a 14 all resist grand charm and have added a few extra points into natural resist and i get by with ed/max jewels in my ss and arreats.

id say the bonus to str (which you seem to have overlooked) is one of my favorite things about enigma and means it beats chains into the ground (on a barb) any day. unless you have a VERY high defence armour the deffence on enigma is also better which is very useful for a barb in this patch.

id go with enigma any day for a barb and CoH for something like a sorc or caster.
 

Grandar King of Trolls

Diabloii.Net Member
I'm running my first 1.10 barb right now. He's 53 or so and thus isn't ready for chains or enigma yet. When I get to the right level, I'll make my decsion then as to which is right for me. I think it is going to depend on my resistances, but I may decide to make both and see which I like better. I think it really depends on how you want to set up your equipment and whether you do PVP, PVM, or both. I'm a PVM purist and they both seem like viable options to me. Looks to be a matter of personal preference.
 

ploof

Diabloii.Net Member
Yeah, I forgot to mention the str you get from enigma, but I also forgot to mention that my barb already has a base str of 165 for ss, and that the extra 45 str I'd get on enigma (compared to CoH) would only be adding extra damage.

When I factor that into the fact that I only play PvM, The extra 200% ed vs demons and 100% ed vs undead looks really, really nice. So, I ask myself, 200% ed & 100% ed covering a good 2/3rds of the monsters in this game compared to the extra 45 or so str from enigma, and I think CoH still wins for my barb.

Oh, and please tell me, how do any of you get full resists without UM's or CoH? Are you all pushing points into natural resistance?

Thanks for the replys, I have thought about what you said, and am considering building myself a very low str barb now... :yep:
 

Halciet

Diabloii.Net Member
ploof said:
Oh, and please tell me, how do any of you get full resists without UM's or CoH?
30 all from arreat's
30 all from quests
lvl 9 nat resist (1 base, +8 from items) = 52
20 from annihilus
and then a random bit from my other gear and charms.

That's how I manage it, though I do have Chains as well, and agree that it's a really nice pvm armor. You could still manage well with it if you stayed at 156 str or less, though you'd lose a few hundred HP.

-Hal
 

CyberHawk

Diabloii.Net Member
What are some good armor(s) to look for, in socketing these 2 armors. I remember some mentioned by Hal in his guide for CoH, but anyone mind listing a few for both?
Of course i'm looking for low cost to repair, and me wearing Bane on my concnetrate barb, I can fly! What armor would I be happy with, that seems to compared to bane, as far as lightness/durabilty, for both Enigma/CoH.
 
Dusk shroud and archon are the best, I prefer dusk for the low low str req, some other ones are scarab husk and wyrmhide. i wouldn't use wire fleece, it has a bit too high str for me, I usually stick to dusk for the 77 str req.
 

shade449

Diabloii.Net Member
JEDi-MiNDTRiCKS said:
Dusk shroud and archon are the best, I prefer dusk for the low low str req, some other ones are scarab husk and wyrmhide. i wouldn't use wire fleece, it has a bit too high str for me, I usually stick to dusk for the 77 str req.
I actually think that mage plate is the best. Its still possible to get 1k defence with a superior one and it has the low strength req. of 55. Plus it just looks so much better than the dusk shroud.
 

jblakely

Diabloii.Net Member
Grandar King of Trolls said:
I'm running my first 1.10 barb right now. He's 53 or so and thus isn't ready for chains or enigma yet. When I get to the right level, I'll make my decsion then as to which is right for me. I think it is going to depend on my resistances, but I may decide to make both and see which I like better. I think it really depends on how you want to set up your equipment and whether you do PVP, PVM, or both. I'm a PVM purist and they both seem like viable options to me. Looks to be a matter of personal preference.
You really need to make the decision now and not later. The obvious advantage of enegma is the +STR you get. This allows you to build your barb with only enough STR to wear armor and this can be augmented with charms and other items giving you STR also. So putting enigma on a barb already designed with enough STR to carry ss or some other high STR items is kind of a waste. Sure the STR will help your damage, but the extra life from putting those points in VIT is really what you are after. They are both great armors for PvM and either will do you prowd, but make the decision now if you want to get the most out of them.

Jack :drink:
 
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