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Enchantress Zeal Questions

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Colorless Green, Jun 30, 2005.

  1. Colorless Green

    Colorless Green IncGamers Member

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    Enchantress Zeal Questions

    My enchantress(w/ FO for FI) is moving along fairly quickly, and the time to plan things out in more detail has come. This has raised a couple of questions:

    (1) Does anyone have accurate IAS tables for sorcs using zeal? (If not, does anyone who has tried this build have any numbers they used that seemed like they might be near breakpoints?)

    (2) What are some good base items for making Passion for enchantress use?

    Also, if anyone has any general insight/advice into the build, it would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks
    -Isch
     
  2. TopHatCat64

    TopHatCat64 IncGamers Member

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    (1) I asked this question once myself and found this post in the sorc forum. Unfortunately it's just for a phase blade.

    (2) A phase blade or a cryptic sword are good one-handed choices. There are some good two handed choices a well but those I'm less familiar with. Regardless of what weapon you choose for passion the vast majority of your damage is going to be from your enchant so go with something fast.

    Try to get as big a pre-buff as you can, it definitely makes a difference in your damage.
     
  3. Thrugg

    Thrugg IncGamers Member

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    If you decide on your base item (and it is other than a Phase Blade :)) I can tell you what your breakpoints will be. A complete list would be too much work to type out though, and there isn't a simple formula. They depend on the animation used and that will vary depending on your weapon type.
     
  4. Colorless Green

    Colorless Green IncGamers Member

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    @TopHatCat64: Thank you. I was leaning towards phase blade in the first place, because of the (I was assuming based on my tesladin) outrageous speed, and (this was really the biggest thing) the indestructability.

    @Thrugg: The other two base weapons I'd been pretty seriously considering were Cryptic Sword and Berserker Axe. If you don't want to type out both I'd probably be more interested in the zerker BPs. Either way, thank you.

    -Isch
     
  5. TopHatCat64

    TopHatCat64 IncGamers Member

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    You can? Kewl. I'd appreciate it if I could find the zeal BP's for a cryptic sword and phase for my amazon.
     
  6. Cattleya

    Cattleya IncGamers Member

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    Here is another thread you might find useful:

    http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=351941

    Several people (including me) gave their advice/experience for using a Passion weapon. My post also gives the sorceress breakpoints for -10 WSM polearms and 2-handed axes. (Shields are overrated. :) )
     
  7. Colorless Green

    Colorless Green IncGamers Member

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    So, I sat down and worked out a setup based on using a phase blade at 7fpa out of the extraneous stuff I currently have in my possession.

    (combat gear)
    Harlequin Crest
    Skin Of The Vipermagi (31 res is the best I saw, but I think I have a 34 on a
    char somewhere that I could scavenge)
    Laying Of Hands
    Wilhelm's Pride
    Natalya's Soul
    Raven Frost
    Carrion Wind
    Highlord's Wrath
    Passion Phase Blade
    Stormshield (pdiamond)
    (switch) Demon Machine

    (prebuff)
    Magefist
    Stone Of Jordan (only have one unfortunately, and no BKWBs)
    +3 Enchant Leaf
    Volcanic Amulet

    this would, according to my calculations, provide:
    +4 all skills in combat
    +14 enchant/+11 fire mastery on prebuff
    45% PDR
    30% FCR for teleporting
    65 IAS (highest breakpoint afaik)
    14 Life Leech
    5 Mana Leech
    30 FR, 62 LR, 72 CR, 35 PR (w/ 3 anya quests)

    Throw in a large collection of resist charms (or maybe throw a ral in the shako to help) and then fill up with elemental/life.. it seems to me like it would be quite viable.

    I would absolutely love any further advice anyone could offer.

    -Isch
     
  8. Cattleya

    Cattleya IncGamers Member

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    That looks like a pretty nice setup, but the belt seems out of place. Is there a specific reason you chose it? I would think that a String of Ears or T-gods would be more useful. (Even a Razortail if you find yourself using the Demon Machine a lot.) T-gods would be especially nice for the extra strength since you are using Stormshield.

    Edit: You won’t have a lot of physical damage, so your level 20 warmth will be doing you more good in the mana department than the small amount of leach on Wilhelm’s Pride.
     
  9. Liliel

    Liliel IncGamers Member

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    +FM +Enchant Passion Shillelagh. Low requirements, adds heaps of fire damage, one of the fastest weapons for a sorc, excellent physical damage. Doesn't get much better than that. Losing a shield is no big deal. 1pt in Teleport, Frost Nova and Shiver Armour, along with some smart playing, keeps you mostly out of trouble.

    Using Passion Phase Blade and Stormshield with max block will suck up so many stat points it's not funny. Melee Enchantresses are VERY TIGHT on stat points. I worry for your hp. In addition, Beserk on Phase Blades is unimpressive. Don't bother with Demon Machine on switch, Beserk beats IM. Get a CTA for an acceptable amount of life, or some enchant prebuff.
     
  10. Thrugg

    Thrugg IncGamers Member

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    Sorc with Cryptic Sword (WSM -10)
    Code:
    +------+-----+-----+-----+
    |  IAS | 1st | F-U | End |
    +------+-----+-----+-----+
    |    0 |  10 |  11 |  18 |   (a 17/11 Zeal)
    |    3 |   9 |     |  17 |   (15/11)
    |    9 |     |     |  16 |   (14/11)
    |   13 |     |  10 |     |   (15/10)
    |   18 |   8 |     |  15 |   (13/10)
    |   30 |     |   9 |  14 |   (13/9)
    |   46 |   7 |     |  13 |   (11/9)
    |   60 |     |   8 |     |   (12/8)
    |   70 |     |     |  12 |   (11/8)
    |  109 |   6 |     |  11 |   (9/8)
    |  129 |     |   7 |     |   (10/7)
    +------+-----+-----+-----+
    
    Sorc with Berserker Axe (WSM 0)
    Code:
    +------+-----+-----+-----+
    |  IAS | 1st | F-U | End |
    +------+-----+-----+-----+
    |    0 |  10 |  12 |  19 |   (17/12)
    |    7 |     |     |  18 |   (16/12)
    |   11 |     |  11 |     |   (17/11)
    |   14 |   9 |     |  17 |   (15/11)
    |   22 |     |     |  16 |   (14/11)
    |   26 |     |  10 |     |   (15/10)
    |   32 |   8 |     |  15 |   (13/10)
    |   48 |     |   9 |  14 |   (13/9)
    |   68 |   7 |     |  13 |   (11/9)
    |   86 |     |   8 |     |   (12/8)
    |   99 |     |     |  12 |   (11/8)
    |  152 |   6 |     |  11 |   (9/8)
    |  180 |     |   7 |     |   (10/7)
    +------+-----+-----+-----+
    
    Amazon with Cryptic Sword (WSM -10)
    Code:
    +------+-----+-----+-----+
    |  IAS | 1st | F-U | End |
    +------+-----+-----+-----+
    |    3 |   8 |   9 |  14 |   (13/9)
    |    6 |   7 |     |  13 |   (11/9)
    |   16 |     |     |  12 |   (10/9)
    |   18 |     |   8 |     |   (11/8)
    |   30 |   6 |     |  11 |   (9/8)
    |   46 |     |   7 |     |   (10/7)
    |   52 |     |     |  10 |   (9/7)
    |   89 |   5 |     |   9 |   (7/7)
    |  109 |     |   6 |     |   (8/6)
    +------+-----+-----+-----+
    
    Amazon with Phase Blade (WSM -30)
    Code:
    +------+-----+-----+-----+
    |  IAS | 1st | F-U | End |
    +------+-----+-----+-----+
    |    5 |   6 |   8 |  11 |   (9/8)
    |   15 |     |   7 |     |   (10/7)
    |   19 |     |     |  10 |   (9/7)
    |   42 |   5 |     |   9 |   (7/7)
    |   54 |     |   6 |     |   (8/6)
    +------+-----+-----+-----+
    
    Note that all these IAS values are total IAS and you can count the 25 IAS on Passion towards them, so you are usually already up into the higher breakpoints with no other gear.

    The table is a bit different than you are used to. Most people think of Zeal as a slow hit followed by several fast hits. It's not really, it's a fast hit, followed by deveral different fast hits, followed by a slow hit. But that's hard to see through the animations, so we think of the last slow hit as another fast hit and move the extra frames onto the start of the next cycle. So, a 6/8/11 becomes a 6/8/8+3 -> 3+6/8/8 which simplifies to 9/8 in the old language. It means you get this wierd progression where the slow hit seems to get slower each time the fast hit gets faster. But overall, speeding up the fast hits makes a bigger difference.
    There, I've probably confused everyone now :)
     
  11. Lucky_Seven

    Lucky_Seven IncGamers Member

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    The highest breakpoint for a phase blade on a sorc needs 65% IAS. Passion already has 25%, you just need 40% extra.

    This fastest breakpoint is a 7 frame zeal.

    For a -10 speed 1 handed swinging weapon
    11/8 70 IAS
    9/8 109 IAS
    10/7 129 IAS

    For a phase blade
    11/8 30 IAS
    9/8 54 IAS
    10/7 65 IAS

    If you have one Stormshield you want to use it, Enchantress is very fragile and a Stormshield is very good for your protection 35%PDR+10%PDR from Harlequin Crest is all you need.
    Physical damage isn't your game better use a phase blade cause you only need another 40 IAS to last breakpoint.
    For a big weapon the best is one with Range 5 I have a Semi-Titan-Enchantress cooking :D

    Swap the LoH Gloves for a nice pair of Blood Gloves (CB +Life +20 IAS) or unique Bloodfist(FHR/Life/10IAS) the best thing in LoH is 350%ED to demons don't add to much damage cause your physical damage is small.
     
  12. TopHatCat64

    TopHatCat64 IncGamers Member

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    Thanks a lot Thrugg :)
     
  13. Vajar

    Vajar IncGamers Member

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    Here's a build that cuts through hell and is, surprisingly, a good tank:

    Passion Phase Blade
    Stormshield - PR
    CtA on swith

    Kiras Guardian - FR/IAS
    Maras Amulet
    Up'd Guardian Angel - Shael
    Bul-Kathos
    Ravenfrost
    IK Gloves
    IK Belt
    IK Boots

    20 Enchant
    20 Fire Mastery
    20 Warmth
    20 Blizzard
    10 Cold Mastery
    1 Shiver Armor
    +Glacial Spike

    Prebuff
    -------
    Leaf Enchant Staff
    Volcanic Circlet
    Volcanic Amulet
    Enchant Ormus' Robes
    Magefist
    Arachnid Mesh
    2 fire charms
    1 SoJ

    I went with Blizzard instead of FO because I can use it while I zeal on high FR monsters. The key to this gear is all the stat points you save and the extra resists from Guardian Angel. I've only put 110 into Dex, and 120 into Str, allowing me to sink 230 points into Vit. This is with max block, by the way.
     
  14. San

    San IncGamers Member

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    Using staves is much slower, and unsafe. Shillelagh's base speed is 0, while phase blades' is -30.

    I myself, if I made an enchantress, wouldn't consider going melee without a shield. Sorcs are just that fragile, without any good defensive skills. (well the cold armours aren't that amazing, really)
     
  15. Liliel

    Liliel IncGamers Member

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    If I'm reading right, a Passion shillelagh and 40ias would get you 11/8? It's not terribly slow. If you'd actually tried playing a heavy hitting 2h enchantress you may find it's not as hard as you think. You can think it unsafe... but IMO using high str equipment and getting 220 dex isn't amazingly safe either without a CtA.
     
  16. Colorless Green

    Colorless Green IncGamers Member

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    @vajar: I consider myself fairly item-rich, but not that item-rich. I don't have a good chunk of those. (particularly call to arms and 3/4ths of the prebuff gear)

    @lucky_seven: I chose laying of hands for the fire resist more than anything (apart from IAS,) since that was my lowest resist, and still is even with the LoH bonus.

    @cattleya: excellent point about the mana leech. I'd already been planning on keeping a TGods around just for gloam purposes, so I think I'll swap the wilhelm's out for TGods permanently for the str/etc., since I had been worrying about the high stat reqs. On the other hand, at 2 life per vit, I can make up missing life with charms a lot easier than I can make up missing stat points.


    Thank all of you for your help, again.

    -Isch
     
  17. Vajar

    Vajar IncGamers Member

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    The prebuff gear and the call to arms aren't really the focus of the setup (were included more for completeness). The focus of the setup is Guardian Angel, Kiras, Stormshield and IK set - all of which aren't that difficult to obtain, IMO. Mostly to show that you don't have to sacrifice points in vitality to have 75% block and use high Str items.
     
  18. Cattleya

    Cattleya IncGamers Member

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    Edit: Never mind, I had my math wrong (forgot the 25 IAS on Passion.) You have it right.
    I can vouch for this. My two-handed enchantress did quite well. Passion itself comes with good crowd control, and teleport is the melee enchatress's best offensive and defensive support skill.
     
  19. Colorless Green

    Colorless Green IncGamers Member

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    I don't have a Kira's. I have a Mara's with 25 res all that I've been considering using, although then I lose ten points of LR and my all-important IAS. I considered using GA in the original setup, but I've been having enough trouble just reaching 75/75/75/75 *with* resists on my armor, let alone reaching 90/90/90/75 with nothing but my poor 13 res all j00l in the GA. I'll look into using the partial IK set, though.

    Other things off the top of my head that I could theoretically swap in for IAS (in lieu of the Kira's):
    Andariel's Visage
    +15% IAS jewel Guillaume's Face
    +15% IAS jewel Tal Rasha's Helm
    Cat's Eye
    Excep Twitchthroe
    Crow Caw
    Goldwrap
    Stealskull


    plus I think I have one unused IAS jewel remaining, so I could just stick it in a shako or something...
     
  20. Cattleya

    Cattleya IncGamers Member

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    I made a memory staff to get ES for my enchantress, and it allowed me to run around Hell with less than stellar resists (44/31/64/61.) It also allowed me to laugh at cursed and conviction monsters. I had 9 points in TK as a synergy and base Energy. I had to keep the mana potions handy, but it worked pretty well.
     

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