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Enchantress skill points

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Day, Mar 21, 2005.

  1. Day

    Day IncGamers Member

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    Enchantress skill points

    Hi - I'm currently building a melee enchantress and would welcome some opinions (I have never played a sourceress beyond normal) on spending my left over points. She is twinked with the best I have (not necessarily that good) as I think it's going to be a difficult build. Playing SC but trying very hard not to die.

    I have read the guides but want to try something a little different.

    First I'm not bothering with Enchant going to get it from Demon Limb (assuming I can get to level 63 without it).

    I will be Maxing Warmth and Fire Mastery (unsurprisingly).

    I will use lightning skills to get me to level 63 including Max Thuderstorm and Max Lightning Mastery and my Merc. I like the fire and forget option and the ability to pre-buff to cast Thunderstorm. I know Orb is the preferred option and this is sub-optimal but want to try it.

    I will also take teleport and pre-reqs and 1 point in Cold Mastery.

    I'm probably (?) going to use a Holy Freeze Merc.

    I will use Glimmershed as melee weapon and something to buff the Thunderstorm on switch.

    I expect to be finshed by level 85.

    This leaves a few skill points (around 7or 8) and I'm wondering if its worth using 2 to get Shiver Armour. I'll have a few points in plus skills about 4-5 or so - so is a level 5 Shiver Armour any good? I can't see that Energy Shield is worthwhile with so few points?

    Alternative, use of the spare points would be higher Cold Mastery (to make Glimmershed marginally more effective - looks a waste) or a weak Fire Wall - level 12(ish) with plus skills (or 10 if I put the points in Shiver) - since as I'll be meleeing I can pin them myself).

    So is a weak fire wall worthwhile - and is a few points in an armour a good idea? Any other thoughts on where the points could usefully go?

    Thanks for your time.

    Regards.

    Day
     
  2. Gouda

    Gouda IncGamers Member

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    Maybe put a few more points in static field for a bigger range?
    Or a few points in Hydra, since that will be synergized so maybe more effective.

    Gouda


    edit: Offcourse impossible to get Hydra, sorry about that.
     
  3. corax

    corax IncGamers Member

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    only bother with the first sorc armour. the difference in ability isnt enough to warrant more points IMO
    If your going to have lightning mastery maxed what about another lightning skill?
     
  4. Hrus

    Hrus IncGamers Member

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    I haven't used thunderstorm myself, but most of the players say that it's a really underpowered skill. You can get much cheaper (skill-points wise) and much more effective frozen orb. With only 30 (or 25) points there will be some room for energy shield/telekinesis or for Shiver armor.

    I would not go with Firewall. Your Enchant will be stronger anyways and you will need to deal with FI in Hell.
     
  5. jiansonz

    jiansonz IncGamers Member

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    I am going to speak against corax and advise you to spend the 4 points you need to get Shiver Armor. The difference is that you need to get hit for Frozen Armor to trigger the cold effect, while the monsters only need to atttack you for Shiver Armor to do its thing. So as soon as you start fighting a group, they will all get chilled even before they hit. The chill time will only be 1 second in Hell, but that will still be useful.

    If you use high defense equipment, more points in Shiver Armor can get you to respectable defense numbers, especially if you use a Defiance merc. You will even have a weak sort of Thorns going on. Not much, but every bit can help...

    Even the prerequisite point in Ice Blast can be useful, if you really want to shatter a particular monster (like Ancient Kaa´s or Radament´s minions). Just spam Ice Blast while your merc kills the monster.


    Holy smokes, how those Gimmershreds will own with help of your Mastery boosts! The lightning damage alone is so high, you would need a Shocking Weapon of Storms (or similar) to beat it! I can only imagine the pwnage...
    You need to get the attack speed up a bit, though.


    I advice against having prebuffs on the weapon switch! Use Enchant from Demon Limb, then put it in stash/inventory and the Enchant for you and merc will last over 10 minutes. If I were to play this build, I would use "utility gear" on the switch: a shield with Terror charges together with a wand with charges of either Life Tap, Confuse, Attract or Lower Resist (the latter for even more elemental damage mayhem!).
     
  6. Day

    Day IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for all the comments.

    First I now see that it's 4 points for Shiver Armour - so think if I take the armour the weak Firewall is out (thanks for spotting my error)! I can add an extra point here and/or Cold Mastery and/or Static (very good idea that). I'm thinking this would be best. Going for Shiver gets me a cold spell to use early game (I'm about 21 at the moment).

    On the Lightning vs orb - my thoughts were Thunderstorm is level 24 so I can get it earlier - I'm very short on offence at the moment - using 1 point spells!

    Thuderstorm goes for so long I thought maybe an amulet and a wand to boost it then swap- say plus 6 skills would work? I see it as always on always doing damage so its an incremental rather than the killer spell? When I'm doing the real damage in melee. If I was orbing it would be that or melee? Also thought it might be stylish?

    Also as Jiaonsonz points out the "synegies" - lightning, fire and cold look very good with Glimmershed. I also like the option to throw for FE and when I have IM curse on me. I also plan to take my resistances on my shield (shael eth in a Tower Shield )and armour (nef lum in Dusk shroud) to leave as much space for plus life, FHR and elemental damage charms as possible to futher take adavantage.

    On attack speed I have some 20% IAS Blood gloves - with 9% CB and both life and mana steal and plus something else minor which I'm thinking of using(I love CB in players one - going to wear Goblin Toe as well - no Goreriders!). I also have a high lord's amulet to use. The axes are plus 30-or 40% to start. I don't think more is worthwhile (I'll check the breakpoints) - but could add 10% from goldwrap if necessary -I've never seen an IAS jewel.

    On switch the lower resistances is very tempting!

    It's a lot of swaping, demon limb from stash (going to socket it with a rune to bring the str requirement down) to cast enchant. Then swap on wand and amulet cast thunderstorm - Then swap to lower resist and high lords for melee. I will also have a pd Sigorn's on the switch f(or plus 1 more skill). How practical all this is I'm not sure!

    Having something on the switch shield to cast is also a good idea - but I think it might be too complex for me (as the Shield is a big part of my resistances and blocking scheme). The pd Sigorn's which would mean a quick switch to cast lower restances would be doable (?) without losing blocking and too much resistance (compared with the Shael eth Tower Shield.)

    Again thanks for your thoughts.
     
  7. farting bob

    farting bob Banned

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    Thunderstorm isnt that effective, it deals damage slowly and in often small amounts, and when your enchant gets up to full speed, the thunderstorm blast wont make much difference.
    After the 3 fire skills youll be maxing, ideally you want a skill with no synergies, or 1 good one. If it has no synergies, youll be able to max or nearly max its mastery, which will help alot.
    Thats why most go FO, but you can also go for energy shield and TK, for the ultimate fighting sorc.
    Im slowly building one with wirts leg as her only weapon, so im going for a more defensive build, something which wikll allow me to tank for more than 5 seconds without dying.
     
  8. Day

    Day IncGamers Member

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    FB interesting thoughts.

    I did consider the energy shield idea to make use of the sorceress high mana. I think you'd need to build it in more than I'd want to with this character - things like Frostbrun's etc? It seems to need (from what I could gather in the guide very good gear - or at least skillers – I only have one fire skiller.

    I think it would be a fun build as well (not sure about the leg bit – think it would be beyond my skills!!). Maybe next time.

    Assuming, I can cast Thunderstorm at level 30 (and have Mastery at level 25 – not sure if the mastery at the time of casting counts or at the time the bolt hits – but assume the worse) I have it lasting nearly 41/2 minutes, hitting every 1.36 seconds and doing 1287-1721 damage. I also get over 300 plus % damage to the lightning on the axes.

    Orb looks very good (indeed better than Thunderstorm) but– I think I'd just end up spamming that rather than fighting? If the current combination is too weak I will try Orb.

    Looking at other skills firewall is good (putting the points in mastery anyway – but I wanted a different element. Not sure if there is anything else worth looking at.
     
  9. Lucky_Seven

    Lucky_Seven IncGamers Member

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    You are melee, forget everything about spells... :D


    ready?

    ok, your big advantage is fire damage in a fast attack, passion is the word(runeword;)), in a phase blade, you can attack at 7 frames, the faster you attack the faster you kill the bad guys.

    Passion Phase Blade only needs 65IAS to hit the 7FPS, 25IAS from passion + 40 from gloves/Armour/amulet/helmet/belt.

    Mine does 7k-9k fire damage (20 points in Enchant + pre-buffer =level 38 enchant ).

    You can spend 20/40 points in Lightning Mastery/Cold Mastery and use Gimmershred(or demon's Arch - Balrog Spear) + tiamats in switch.

    Some Lightning charms add damage in all attacks

    Stone with 60FHR(+vita/+str/+15 resists/...) is a nice armour to a enchantress and Shako is the best item for this build (Life/mana/+2skills/10%DR )

    Best things for a Enchantress:

    86 FHR
    good block
    65 IAS (for Passion Phase Blade)
    Nice Enchant buffer
    Resists
    +Life (items/charms)
    MDR

    If you want to be a pseudo-fighter you can use FO :)
     
  10. NSXdreamer

    NSXdreamer IncGamers Member

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    Are you sure about not getting enchant skill itself? Charge from demon limb is only level 23 if I recall. With any half decent items you can easily boost your own enchant over level 30, or 40 even. Just leaf (tir ral) staff along can have up to +6 to your enchant.
     
  11. Day

    Day IncGamers Member

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    Again thanks

    Luckyseven I had't considered passion (but think i have the runes and a 4 socket phase to make it so am tempted) I can see the attraction of the Zeal. Don't have the Runes for\Stone. I do have the Shako and will be wearing it. How did you work out the IAS needed fro 7 frames i haven't seen a caluclator that will work out a sourceress's breakpoints using Zeal (I could also see it being useful to know for other characters as well). I will go max block and decent FHR - without Stone may have to settle for the next frame down though.

    I have string of ears and probably will use the fire absorb uniqure ring (can't remember the name )with plus 40 life so will have good MDR as well.

    Definitley decided no Orb.

    NSXDreamer - I'm not sure about the Demon limb at all! I think I can probably cast at around level 29 ish (plus 2 shako, plus 1 SOJ, plus 1 (or more) amulet, plus 1 shield, plus 1 fire skiller) and hope that's enough. Its an experiment having never played an echantress I've no feel for how the damage ramps up.
     
  12. Zarhrezz

    Zarhrezz IncGamers Member

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    First off: You need max block at the fastest rate you can. The means using Guardian Angel. And since you get 90% max resists from it, might as well get a Sanctuary Hyperion for the best possible block and block speed with great resists.

    As for the weapon: Kingslayer Cryptic Sword is the way to go. It can reach the fastest attack rate with the right setup and deals a great deal more damage than a Phase Blade ever will. Passion is a disaster for melee...Zeal is nice but the Terror ruins it. The number of air-swings you'll be doing is breathtaking.

    Then the skills: Max Enchant, Fire Mastery and Warmth. Using the lvl 23 Enchant from the limb nets you 1000's of damage damageloss. When you use prebuff gear (which is easilly possible with the Enchant duration) you're casting at +15-20 fire skills meaning a base Enchant around 15 levels higher than you'll get from the limb.

    Further 20 points TK, 1 Teleport, 1 ES if you don't have a Memory staff, otherwise buff from staff. Note that ES shouldn't be too high...the idea is to spread damage taken in a way that'd mean that life and mana run out at the same time (this is the situation of most effective life).

    Final points should go into Cold Mastery and Lightning Mastery to raise Vengeance damage from Kingslayer.

    This is pretty much the layout of my Melee Enchantress who went through the entire game at players 8...including Ancients
     
  13. Day

    Day IncGamers Member

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    So many ways to play...

    I can do the Memory staff but Kingslayer and Sanctury are beyond my budget (no Mal(s)!) I do have a Guardian Angel with an Um - my best ever rune - in it.

    I think players 8 Hell is beyond me - I'm going to be happy if I can play 3 or 4 in some areas and 1 in most.
     
  14. Zarhrezz

    Zarhrezz IncGamers Member

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    Kingslayer and Sanctuary are high end yes, lower player settings can be done without them though. Shields like Moser's with 2 perfect diamonds are viable too, Sanctuary is just a bit better =) There's some good alternative weapons, but for melee sorc Kingslayer is the top of the line. Lightsabre or the likes are good to go too.
     
  15. jiansonz

    jiansonz IncGamers Member

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    I thought Gimmershed was already decided to be the main weapon for the character Day was planning...


    For shield, a Rhyme Bone/Grim/Tower Shield (or Heater) is my suggestion. CBF rocks.
     
  16. isengart

    isengart IncGamers Member

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    just one thought on the armors in the cold tree:

    my meteorb uses chilling armor (the 3rd one, it's against ranged attacks) and gets it from her orb and lidless on switch. Personally I have grown a fan of this one, as I run act 5 SU with her and there are Quill rats very often around Shenk. I happen to oversee their darts regularly and here chilling armor is my life-insurance. - you see and hear that you have been hit by a ranged attack.

    For me, melee enemies are no real threat (except the usual suspects like hell ancients and so on), I rarely get hit by them. I keep teleporting in front of monsters and step one or two steps back, my merc attacks them immediately.

    The much bigger danger for me are the ranged attackers and I found a way to protect myself against them.

    I use ES and chilling armor from equipment on switch. and have not put any skill points in them.
    and if I get hit, my mana drops quickly but well - that's what pots are for ;)
     
  17. Lucky_Seven

    Lucky_Seven IncGamers Member

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    I've got the IAS needed from other places, but some guys here can read the "matrix" code and tell you the numbers.
    Kingslayer compared with passion is very expensive, I don't have big problems hitting monsters cause i teleport directly to them and with big defense/45%DR/74%Shield Block most of the time i'm out of danger. I don't have problems with terror, when other monsters are dead i teleport in front of the monsters running away.

    Code:
    Normal attack(Vengeance) Cryptic Sword(-10)	
    	
    IAS	Frames per attack	   Attacks per second	
    0 %	          16	                          1.5	
    4 %	          15	                          1.6	
    13 %	          14	                          1.7	
    23 %	          13	                          1.9	
    39 %	          12	                          2	
    60 %	          11	                          2.2	
    99 %	          10	                          2.5
    
    
    To get attack at 10 frames you have to sacrifice other equip for IAS.

    My Setup

    Passion - Phase Blade 'DolOrtEldLem' 25 IAS
    Stone - Archon Plate 'ShaelUmPulLum'
    Stormshield 'Eld'
    Harlequin Crest - Shako 15 IAS
    Blood Gloves - 20 IAS/9CB
    Nosferatu's Coil - Vampirefang Belt 10 IAS
    Mara's Kaleidoscope - Amulet
    Raven Frost - Ring ->very Important for this build (CBF/+Dex/+AR)
    Bul-Kathos' Wedding Band - Ring
    Gore Rider - War Boots
    2 Burning Grand Charm

    +7 Enchant/+5 Zeal(5 hits) when playing.

    Pre-Buffer:
    Que-Hegan's Wisdom - Mage Plate +1 skills
    Arachnid Mesh - Spiderweb Sash +1 skills
    The Stone of Jordan - Ring +1 skills
    Volcanic Coronet of the Colossus +3 to Fire Skills (Sorceress Only)
    Volcanic Amulet of the Wolf +3 to Fire Skills (Sorceress Only)
    Leaf - TirRal +3 to Enchant/+3 to Fire Skills
    Magefist - +1 to Fire Skills

    enchant Sl 39

    Small Charms for FHR/Life/Resist

    Merc:
    The Reaper's Toll - Thresher 'Amn'
    Guillaume's Face - Winged Helm
    Duriel's Shell - Cuirass (ethereal)

    Zarhrezz:
    Can you tell me what is your damage ?
    Maybe some day i do a kingslayer in a Silver-Edged Axe and do a Executress with a big axe :D
     
  18. whomhead

    whomhead IncGamers Member

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    Dude, make the build you want to make. This means - if you want to make the most powerful build out there possible, then listen to all of these nice folks with their advice. If however, you want to make an enchant sorc that uses Gimmershed, maxes all masteries, and uses Demon Limb for enchant, then do it. She probably wont be the most uber-elite-powerful-OMFG-uber-awesome sorc. But if you're having fun, then what the heck is the problem with it.

    [/$0.02]
     
  19. Cattleya

    Cattleya IncGamers Member

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    I'm going to agree with whomhead. All of the advice you have been given is great, but there is no problem trying out the build you originally came up with. TS with maxed mastery could be a nice companion spell, and the fact that you don't have to do anything after its been cast will allow you to focus on the battles. Also, with maxed LM, you could get a lot of milage out of lightning damage charms/gear. I wouldn't bother with Firewall. It's takes skill to use, and your will want to focus on other things. Besides, you will already be doing a bunch of fire damage.

    If you could get your hands on a 4-socketed staff with your cold armor of choice, you could save some skill points by casting the armor and ES from the staff. Zarhezz makes a good point with not wanting ES to high. A memory staff will give you all you need. Points in TK are always good with ES, but it doesn't have to be your top priority. Unless you are using Berserk or Vengeance, you won't need the mana to attack. (My experience is that with 20 in warmth, ES can't keep your mana low enough to prevent Zeal from working, and a regular attack uses no mana.) The only warning here is it will make it harder to teleport. Make sure that you can live with this before investing in TK. Also, mana steal is very useful with ES. That's why I like Tal's Mask.

    One more thing to consider. Frost Nova is great one-point wonder for a melee sorc. Sort of a poor man's holy freeze. (Just be warned, ES can mess this up too, but by then you could be using a HF merc.)
     
  20. Zarhrezz

    Zarhrezz IncGamers Member

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    A screenshot of Brighid at lvl ** shows a Vengeance damage of 8.5k-10k. This in itself isn't that impressive, but there are a few points where improvement is possible: 1) It's a Kingslayer Phase Blade. Cryptic Sword is the better choice since it can reach the same speed while providing much higher base damage and thus Vengeance damage. 2) She uses a Memory staff to prebuff, so no specific Enchant prebuffing. Switching gear to do so would easilly put both minimum and maximum damage into the two-digits range.
     

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