ED & min/max dmg jewels

jackthelad

Diabloii.Net Member
ED & min/max dmg jewels

I asked the following in the 1pt smiter guide over in the pala forums....

Me! said:
Ok, so I realised one of my mf sorcs must've found this jewel: 40%dmg, 4max. I thought of putting it in my gulli face, but I seem to remember reading something about a bug with off hand ED or max dmg? Can someone give me an idea about which bug I may (or may not!) be thinking about & whether its a good idea to put this in my gulli or whether I should put an um in instead, & sell the jewel for some currency? Thanks!
But I have turned up some confusion it seems....

Ragnarod said:
Don't, you're right about the bug... In jewels with both ED and max/min damage the ED is applied to the max/min damage added by the jewel only, and not to your total damage, if they're socketed in something other than weapons. That's why socketing a plain 40% ED jewel in your helm would add much more damage than that 40% ED 4 max jewel
Ceramic Weasel said:
I don't think that's how it works. I was under the distinct impression that the 40%ed would apply to everything except the min/max damage on the same off-weapon item.
Ragnarod said:
Now I'm not sure, I've done a search and I've found both explanations for the ED/max and ED/min jewel bug. From the Strategy Compendium:

If a jewel adds both ed% and min dmg, the ed% will only affect the max dmg.
If a jewel has both ed% and max dmg, the ed% only affects the min dmg.

Yet here there's another poster saying basically the same you're saying, so...

After some more search there's another explanation that combines parts of both: in an ED/max jewel the ED works fine for the min damage of the character, but only modifies the jewel's +max damage which is added to the max damage of the character.

I guess someone should test this more thoroughly, I'm not really sure about which one is correct right now
Can anyone confirm which is right or if they are both right or what exactly the bug is? If my jewel isnt worth a lot I would be willing to do some testing I guess!
 

Ceramic Weasel

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: ED & min/max dmg jewels

It'd be less expensive to test it in single player, which I would do right now if it weren't past 3am in Aus. ;) I'm sure someone else can answer this before tomorrow, though.
 

Ragnarod

DiabloII.Net Pal
Re: ED & min/max dmg jewels

I'll be keeping an eye in this thread too, I hope someone has tested this already and can help us out :)
 

Banananas

Banned
Re: ED & min/max dmg jewels

I did a simple test: I created a barbarian with jeweled shields,
one had a +10 min and max damage, (1)
one with a +10 min damage and +100% ED (2)
and one with +10 min damage and +100% ED. (3)

The damage results was:

(1) = (2)
Min damage on (2) = (3)

my conclusion is that Ragnarrod is correct:

If a jewel adds both ed% and min dmg, the ed% will only affect the max dmg.
If a jewel has both ed% and max dmg, the ed% only affects the min dmg.
 

sirpoopsalot

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: ED & min/max dmg jewels

I did a simple test: I created a barbarian with jeweled shields,
one had a +10 min and max damage, (1)
one with a +10 min damage and +100% ED (2)
and one with +10 min damage and +100% ED. (3)

The damage results was:

(1) = (2)
Min damage on (2) = (3)

my conclusion is that Ragnarrod is correct:

If a jewel adds both ed% and min dmg, the ed% will only affect the max dmg.
If a jewel has both ed% and max dmg, the ed% only affects the min dmg.

Did you confirm the damage being equal in the LCS, or by some other method?

Many folks don't trust the LCS' damage numbers (with good reason).



 

Ceramic Weasel

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: ED & min/max dmg jewels

Okay, I've tested this in PvP, with jeweled helms, just to be sure that it isn't a display glitch. The damage dealt is more or less what the Character Screen says it should be, which means that Ragnarod is correct.

  • Jewels with only +ED% and no +Min or +Max damage will work as expected. That is, the +ED% will add to the item/skill multiplier, in the same way a Fortitude's +ED% would.
  • Jewels with +ED% and +Min damage will only apply their +ED% to the total Maximum damage.
  • Jewels with +ED% and +Max damage will only apply their +ED% to the total Minimum damage.

So, a 40%ed / +15 Max damage jewel in a helm will add +15 to your maximum damage, and apply an additional +40%ed to your minimum damage. Whereas a plain 40%ed jewel will apply the +40%ed to both minimum and maximum damage.
 

Ragnarod

DiabloII.Net Pal
Re: ED & min/max dmg jewels

Thanks for testing it so thoroughly, it's good to know for sure!
 

onderduiker

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: ED & min/max dmg jewels

Okay, I've tested this in PvP, with jeweled helms, just to be sure that it isn't a display glitch. The damage dealt is more or less what the Character Screen says it should be, which means that Ragnarod is correct.

  • Jewels with only +ED% and no +Min or +Max damage will work as expected. That is, the +ED% will add to the item/skill multiplier, in the same way a Fortitude's +ED% would.
  • Jewels with +ED% and +Min damage will only apply their +ED% to the total Maximum damage.
  • Jewels with +ED% and +Max damage will only apply their +ED% to the total Minimum damage.

So, a 40%ed / +15 Max damage jewel in a helm will add +15 to your maximum damage, and apply an additional +40%ed to your minimum damage. Whereas a plain 40%ed jewel will apply the +40%ed to both minimum and maximum damage.
I've finally been prompted to corroborate this for myself, and I found that while this summary is correct for both displayed and actual damage when using a melee attack, it is not correct for actual damage when using a ranged attack: actual damage is calculated as expected when using a ranged attack.

All tests were performed with a perfect Merciless Phase Blade (100% Enhanced Damage, 62-70 weapon damage) and Merciless Diamond Bow (100% ED, 66-80 weapon damage) equipped by a character with 150 Strength and Dexterity (+150% Damage for both weapons). Targets were Zombies modified to have specific life values with no damage resistance or regeneration.


Enhanced Damage and Minimum Damage
Perfect Jewels with various combinations of the Ruby prefix (+40% Damage) and Bliss suffix (+10 Minimum Damage) were socketed in a helm. Actual results were based on attacking Zombies with life equivalent to minimum expected damage: if actual damage were as expected, Zombies would always be killed by a single hit and survival would indicate that damage was not as expected.

Melee
Code:
JEWELS                DAMAGE                          +% DAMAGE
1          2          Displayed   Expected   Actual   Min   Max
---------------------------------------------------------------
+40% +10              180-203     208-211    < 208    150   190
+40%       +10        208-209     208-211    > 207    190   190
+10        +40%       180-203     208-211    < 208    150   190

+40%       +40% +10   208-231     237-240    < 237    190   230
+40% +10   +40%       180-231     237-240    < 237    150   230

+40% +10   +40% +10   205-231     270-273    < 270    150   230
Displayed damage applies the "if min >= max, then max = min+1" condition to final damage, but it is actually applied before +% Damage (it is actually being applied to 72-73 or 82-83 weapon damage, not 72-70 or 82-70).

Damage is not actually bugged when +% Damage and + Minimum Damage are on separate Jewels, and +% Damage is socketed before + Minimum Damage. Otherwise, the Jewel's +% Damage is only applied to maximum damage.

Ranged
Code:
JEWELS                DAMAGE                          +% DAMAGE
1          2          Displayed   Expected   Actual   Min   Max
---------------------------------------------------------------
+40% +10              190-232     220-232    > 219    190   190
+40%       +10        220-232     220-232    > 219    190   190
+10        +40%       190-232     220-232    > 219    190   190

+40%       +40% +10   220-264     250-264    > 249    230   230
+40% +10   +40%       190-264     250-264    > 249    230   230

+40% +10   +40% +10   215-264     283-264    > 263    230   230
The "if min >= max, then max = min+1" condition does not actually apply to ranged damage, so in the final example +230% Damage is applied to 86-80 weapon damage and results in 283-264 damage (effectively 264-283 damage).


Enhanced Damage and Maximum Damage
Perfect Jewels with various combinations of the Ruby prefix (+40% Damage) and Carnage suffix (+15 Maximum Damage) were socketed in a helm. Actual results were based on attacking Zombies with life equivalent to maximum displayed damage +2: if actual damage were as displayed, Zombies would never be killed by a single hit and death would indicate that damage was not as displayed.

Melee
Code:
JEWELS                DAMAGE                          +% DAMAGE
1          2          Displayed   Expected   Actual   Min   Max
---------------------------------------------------------------
+40% +15              179-212     179-246    < 214    190   150
+40%       +15        179-246     179-246    > 213    190   190
+15        +40%       179-212     179-246    < 214    190   150

+40%       +40% +15   204-246     204-280    < 248    230   190
+40% +15   +40%       204-212     204-280    < 214    230   150

+40% +15   +40% +15   204-250     204-330    < 252    230   150
Damage is not actually bugged when +% Damage and + Maximum Damage are on separate Jewels, and +% Damage is socketed before + Maximum Damage. Otherwise, the Jewel's +% Damage is only applied to minimum damage.

Ranged
Code:
JEWELS                DAMAGE                          +% DAMAGE
1          2          Displayed   Expected   Actual   Min   Max
---------------------------------------------------------------
+40% +15              191-237     191-275    > 238    190   190
+40%       +15        191-275     191-275    > 238    190   190
+15        +40%       191-237     191-275    > 238    190   190

+40%       +40% +15   217-275     217-313    > 276    230   230
+40% +15   +40%       217-237     217-313    > 276    230   230

+40% +15   +40% +15   217-275     217-363    > 276    230   230
 
Last edited:

onderduiker

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: ED & min/max dmg jewels

A few more test results to cover more bases...

Enhanced Damage, Minimum Damage AND Maximum Damage
Perfect Ruby Jewels (+40% Damage), Jewels of Bliss (+10 Minimum Damage) and Jewels of Carnage (+15 Maximum Damage) were socketed in all possible orders.

Melee
Code:
JEWELS                        DAMAGE                                 +% DAMAGE
1         2         3         Displayed   Expected   Actual          Min   Max
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+40%      +10 Min   +15 Max   208-246     208-246    > 207           190   190
+40%      +15 Max   +10 Min   208-246     208-246    > 207           190   190

+10 Min   +40%      +15 Max   180-246     208-246    < 208           150   190
+10 Min   +15 Max   +40%      180-212     208-246    179 < A < 214   150   150

+15 Max   +40%      +10 Min   208-212     208-246    < 214           190   150
+15 Max   +10 Min   +40%      180-212     208-246    179 < A < 214   150   150
Incidentally, I repeated that last test using level 1 Smite (+15% Damage) with a Zakarum Shield (46-46(+1) damage) and the bug still applies even though Smite doesn't apply + Minimum Damage or + Maximum Damage: 140-143 damage was expected with +205% Damage but a single hit was never enough to kill Zombies with 126 life, indicating the Jewel's +% Damage had not been applied to either minimum or maximum damage (so 121-124 damage with just +165% Damage).

Ranged
Code:
JEWELS                        DAMAGE                                 +% DAMAGE
1         2         3         Displayed   Expected   Actual          Min   Max
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+40%      +10 Min   +15 Max   220-275     220-275    > 219           190   190
+40%      +15 Max   +10 Min   220-275     220-275    > 219           190   190

+10 Min   +40%      +15 Max   190-275     220-275    > 219           190   190
+10 Min   +15 Max   +40%      190-237     220-275    189 < A < 239   150   150

+15 Max   +40%      +10 Min   220-237     220-275    > 239           190   190
+15 Max   +10 Min   +40%      190-237     220-275    189 < A < 239   150   150
So actual ranged damage does correspond to displayed damage when both + Minimum Damage and + Maximum Damage are socketed before +% Damage: the Ruby Jewel's +% Damage is not applied to either minimum or maximum damage. Otherwise, actual ranged damage is not bugged.

Let's throw the Vermillion prefix (+15 Maximum Damage) into the mix:

Melee
Code:
JEWELS                              DAMAGE                                 +% DAMAGE
1              2                    Displayed   Expected   Actual          Min   Max
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+40% +10 Min      +15 Max           180-246     208-246    < 208           150   190
+15 Max           +40% +10 Min      180-212     208-246    179 < A < 214   150   150

+40% +15 Max      +10 Min           208-212     208-246    < 214           190   150
+10 Min           +40% +15 Max      180-212     208-246    179 < A < 214   150   150

+40%              +10 Min +15 Max   208-246     208-246    207 < A < 248   190   190
+10 Min +15 Max   +40%              180-212     208-246    179 < A < 214   150   150
Ranged
Code:
JEWELS                              DAMAGE                                 +% DAMAGE
1              2                    Displayed   Expected   Actual          Min   Max
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+40% +10 Min      +15 Max           190-275     220-275    > 219           190   190
+15 Max           +40% +10 Min      190-237     220-275    189 < A < 239   150   150

+40% +15 Max      +10 Min           220-237     220-275    < 239           190   150
+10 Min           +40% +15 Max      190-237     220-275    189 < A < 239   150   150

+40%              +10 Min +15 Max   220-275     220-275    219 < A < 277   190   190
+10 Min +15 Max   +40%              190-237     220-275    189 < A < 239   150   150

Circlets
Circlets can spawn with % Enhanced Damage prefixes and + Minimum Damage and + Maximum Damage suffixes, so it's possible they might also be bugged like Jewels. However, displayed and actual melee and ranged damage were as expected for the following:

  • Deadly Circlet (30% ED)
  • Deadly Circlet of Excellence (30% ED, +9 Min)
  • Deadly Circlet of Quality (30% ED, +8 Max)
  • Rare Circlet (30% ED, +9 Min, +8 Max)
So circlets without Jewels are not bugged. Displayed and actual melee and ranged damage were also as expected when the rare Circlet was socketed with a Jewel of Bliss (+10 Min) or Jewel of Carnage (+15 Max), but not when socketed with a Ruby Jewel: its 40% ED applied to neither minimum nor maximum damage, presumably because the Circlet had both + Minimum Damage and + Maximum Damage before the Ruby Jewel was socketed.
 
Last edited:

onderduiker

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: ED & min/max dmg jewels

One final thing, this bug does not apply with % Damage to Demons and % Damage to Undead:

I have mine socketed with a rare Jewel with the Diamond affix (+ED and AR against Demons), and some other helpful stuff. Damage, regular ED, stats, resists, it's all good. Do note that the bug with %ED and +damage in a jewel socketed in a non-weapon does NOT exist when that %ED comes in the Diamond or Pearl prefix. Ragnarod tested this for me (thanks!), and these jewels work as they should.
I've just done some quick tests of my own to corroborate this.
 
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