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Discussion in 'Amazon' started by scottha16, Feb 11, 2004.
Eaglehorn or Upgrade Goldstrike?
Which do you think would be better for hell pits? (USeast ladder)
upgraded goldstrike all the way dude..
upg goldstrike = wf until high 70's when the wf's max dmg mod kicks in and surpasses goldstrike dmg.
eagle's just not as good anymore... or.. err never was.
Eagle is the better choice. Goldstrike upgraded gives a negligable dmg increase but much increased req's. Your choice mate
Everything in the pits is either Demon (Carvers/Corrupted Rogues) or Undead (Skeletons). You figure it out.
Goldstrike is also faster (50% IAS vs zero) so you can more easily hit the 9/2 breakpoint. I'd shael the weapon, and then go and find another +50% IAS someplace else to get to the magical 120% for a 9/2 strafe speed.
But don't upgrade the Goldstrike. The strength requirement rises significantly. Apparently if you take those stat points and pump Dex instead, you end up with the same amount of damage from the bow either way.
Unless, of course, you have too much strength already.
Well we could debate this all day but lets not lol. Try them both, then choose. Since I have used both, but with LOH, I know which I prefer. Have fun.
If this is strictly for the pit then goldstrike wins out no contest. Even an exceptional goldstrike will kick the crap out of eagle on this map. Goldstrike can give 70% ias on the bow (with shael) while eagle can only manage 20% with shael which lets the goldstrike achieve a 2 frame strafe without having an absurd amount of IAS. As stated by others, everything in the pit is demon/undead so combining goldstrike with LoH will rip apart the enemies especially demons. Eagle doesn't really have an advantage in AR even though it's ITD because goldstrike has a healthy AR% boost as well.
Um... I wouldnt call a damage increase of 80-90+ max damage negligable . If you wear an Enigma, the str penalty is easily bypassed. Goldstrike is more flexible because of the IAS, deals almost windforce-type damage to both demons and undead and since you'll be mf'ing and leveling in areas that are full of those types of monsters its a great benefit.
I would choose Goldstrike over Eaglehorn if it is a good %.
he's saying the base dmg for a gothic bow is 10-50, base for hydra is 10-68.
18 max dmg, no min dmg. even with a PERFECT 250% goldstrike the upgraded max dmg is only increased by 63. and no minimum increase... that means the average damage only goes up by fewer than 32 damage.
32 more ave. damage after ed% is factored in? NOT worth it to me for the extra 40 strength I'd have to put into my zon (meaning 40 less in dex).
That being said, I am interested as to which actually performs better in the pit. To settle this once and for all, here are some mathmatical calculations:
let's assume we get a decent goldstrike to start out with... say 230% ed (a little above average) and with 170% ed to both demons and undead (a little above average).
Damage to demons w/o LoH: (10-50)*(3.3+2.7) = 60-300 damage.
Damage to undead w/o LoH: (10-50)*(3.3+2.7) = 60-300 damage.
Damage to demons w/ LoH: (10-50)*(3.3+2.7+4.5) = 105-525 damage.
EAGLEHORN (assume @clvl 85):
Damage to demons w/o LoH: (15*3)-(63*[3+2.7]) = 45-359 damage.
Damage to undead w/o LoH: (15*3)-(63*[3+2.7]) = 45-359 damage.
Damage to demons w/ LoH: (15*[3+4.5])-(63*[3+2.7+4.5]) = 112.5-642.6 damage
Ok, so let's take an average between the damages with LoH and without, because we will assume half the monsters are demons in the pit, half are undead.
GOLDSTRIKE: damage w/ LoH vs. demons & undead: 82.5-412.5
EAGLEHORN: damage w/ LoH vs. demons & undead: 79-501
Eagle has a better average by 42.5 damage.
This post is long enough as it is.... but next we should factor in IAS on the bows. Getting goldstrike to 2fpa strafe isn't hard, as many say. Since the IAS tables aren't up, I don't know what the bp would be on eaglehorn for a similar IAS setup. Someone want to figure taht one out for us?
As i said, the zon attack bp tables are missing up in the sticky area due to the forum wipeout, but I checked that weapon speed calc that seems to work on every class but wereforms (I think it's a Danish site? Or German? I'm bad w/ languages ) and here's the info I got.
both goldstrike and eagle are base 10 bows, meaning they need only 11% ias to get a 3fpa strafe, but 120% ias to get to the next bp at 2fpa.
Goldstrike can easily get there: shael the bow (70%), use LoH (20%) and either cat's eye/highlords with 1 ias jewel somewhere in the equipment, cat's eye/highlords with a stealskull, or 2 ias jewels somewhere in equipment.
Eagle on the other hand has no ias. None! So without sacrificing tons of gear, there really isn't a feasible way to get 120% ias on eagle to reach that 2fpa bp.
The only way it could be done is 60% ias armor, 20% gloves, 20% bow, AND 20% ammy (or stealskull + ias jewel or the like). With 60% ias armor you'd be sacrificing life, resists, and whatever other juicey mods your armor happens to give.
Therefore Goldstrike can attack at 1.5 times the rate of Eagle with a more normal pvm setup (3fpa as opposed to 2fpa). I could go into the initial hit of the strafe, but it wouldn't factor in much seeing as it's still in Goldstrike's favor.
If you have 60% ias armor on your pvm zon for some strange reason (like we bowazons dont' have enough trouble w/ res already), then reaching the 120% bp w/ eagle is possible and therefore Eaglehorn is the better choice.
If you wear any other type of armor, you'll probably only be able to hit the 120% ias bp with goldstrike, and therefore the 42.5 more average damage of eagle does NOT compare to the faster firing rate of goldstrike. Therefore Goldstrike Arch is the better choice.
Let me know if I miscalculated anything, or am missing out on something.
P.S. remember this is for pitrunning only, therefore the %dmg to demons/undead is factored in at 100% effectiveness for GSA, while in the entire game, it is probably nearer to 70% effectiveness.
You can still find the IAS tables here
I have a nearly perfect goldstrike. I believe its around 245% ed and 195% to demons. Would this be worth the extra strength to upgrade and use this for the pit etc.?
that's the premire pit-running bow my friend (besides maybe a wf or botd crusader). but I wouldn't suggest upgrading it. read the start of my first long post in this thread... it describes how upgrading is not worth it for GSA.