E-conservatives and libertarianism

[Garbad_the_Weak]

E-conservatives and libertarianism

It seems like more e-conservatives identify with libertarianism instead of the republican party. And its not just online, either. In the meat, you hear blowhards like Rush talk about this divide.

Personally, I wonder if it might be related to the type of people who jumped on the internet hard and early (the old timers among us will remember how anarchistic the net was in those days, and how people railed against the herd that eventually consumed them). Perhaps similar to how the silly druggies of the 1960s evolved into the Clinton democrats of the 90s, the haxxor anarchists of the 1990s have evolved into the libertarians of today. Or perhaps its an aspect of education (people active on the net tend to be more literate and educated than the population at large). Whereas ignorant conservatives comprise the moral majority, perhaps educated conservatives tend towards libertarianism (plus all the college kids who want legal pot, of course).

What do you think? Do you identify more with the libertarian party or the republican party? Why?

 

[Amra]

Re: E-conservatives and libertarianism

It seems like more e-conservatives identify with libertarianism instead of the republican party.

I would say that applies to any conservative these days. To wit, it seems the republicans have in many ways strayed from how we (or I) think they should be.

Ronald Reagan where are you?

Do you identify more with the libertarian party or the republican party? Why?

"More" is hard to define. There are certain things I like about both parties.

I want less government in my life regarding most things. Lower taxes, more free enterprise, fiscal responsibility. Those seem like things both parties should want.

But I don't want all drugs made legal nor open boarders. I also don't believe killing babies is right.

At the end of the day I have to vote with whom I think will best represent my wishes while not mucking things up (this Ross Perot).

 

[SaroDarksbane]

Re: E-conservatives and libertarianism

What do you think? Do you identify more with the libertarian party or the republican party? Why?

I think my position is apparent. :wink:

 

[phool]

Re: E-conservatives and libertarianism

Does seem libertarianism is a lot more popular in internet forums than elsewhere. Republicans and Democrats are both basically the same, it's not surprising people are turning to Ron Paul and others for some winds of actual change. Unfortunately it's easier for the 2 parties to gain more votes by moving towards each other in an effort to snatch votes from each other than it is to move away. 2 party systems suck.

I find libertarian to be the best umbrella term for my personal political persuasion, as I believe strongly in social freedoms and support fiscal conservatism, for lack of better phrases, if in the latter case not with a whole ton of conviction or necessarily across the whole board. It's pretty hard to talk contructively using these rather reductive, subjective and for many rapidly changing terms at all to be honest.

 

[Tanooki]

Re: E-conservatives and libertarianism

2 party systems suck.

QFT




10charsucks

 

[WzWz]

Re: E-conservatives and libertarianism

I would say that applies to any conservative these days. To wit, it seems the republicans have in many ways strayed from how we (or I) think they should be.

Really? How do you think Huckabee won a few states in the primaries? If you think the stupid type of conservatives are extinct, come to the South. It's rife with them.

 

[AeroJonesy]

Re: E-conservatives and libertarianism

I chalk it up to the unpopularity of Bush. During the past 8 years, to identify one's self as a Republican meant an automatic assumption from the rest of the world that you agreed with Bush, favored war, and favored a large government that spied on everyone all the time.

People with conservative leanings needed to distance themselves from Bush, and thus turned to libertarianism. And it didn't help that Bush and the Republican party of the last decade had turned away from some classic Republican ideals like small government freedom from government intrusion.

 

[Glurin]

Re: E-conservatives and libertarianism

What choice did conservatives have? What choice do they have? The republicans abandoned them, even trying to imitate democrats at one point. They just don't represent the political right anymore.

As for me, I try not to identify myself with anybody, and if you believe those cheesy online political spectrum tests, I'm about as dead center moderate as you can get. If I had to pick one though, it would probably be libertarian. I think I've been drifting a little that way anyway lately.

 

[Dondrei]

Re: E-conservatives and libertarianism

It's because people who post regularly on internet forums are way more likely to have gone to college. Libertarianism is very attractive to overprivileged idealistic young white males *****ing about their taxes and looking for a free lunch.

As for society at large, it's just caused by the gradual liberalising of conservatives as their rear-guard action steadily fails. How many conservatives still oppose divorce or interracial marriage? Those weren't that long ago. Socially liberal + economically conservative ~= libertarian.

Does seem libertarianism is a lot more popular in internet forums than elsewhere.

Little hint about how relevant it is.

 

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Re: E-conservatives and libertarianism

Little hint about how relevant it is.

You couldn't be more wrong. I suspect the internet gamer demographic is far more influential than the nascar dads, or just about anyone else. You are generally speaking about young (16-30), educated, males who know enough and care enough to debate. What could terrify the status quo more?

@AJ
Its older than notbush tho. It was around back in like 1996.

@socially liberal + fiscally conservative

That's the definition of a regan republican, not a libertarian. I think its more fair to say that libertarian is a truly third way, not measured by your two scales. Libertarians are not truly socially liberal; instead they think government should not regulate/subsidize/promote social behavior at all -- conservatively or liberally (ie both drugs and abortion are legal, but affirmative action and home schooling are not). Likewise, they aren't fiscally conservative; instead they think government should let the free market regulate itself. Libertarians want small government, yes, but they envision the government as a tool to build railroads and to protect against the canadian invasion threat, not as a tool to promote the welfare of its population.

As far as I know, anyhow. I should probably read up on the ron paul ****.

 

[Tanooki]

Re: E-conservatives and libertarianism

I'm having trouble figuring out that last post. Are you suggesting that libertarians don't think home schooling should be legal?

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks we have a true enough "free market" (i.e. the general public has perfect information) for there to be no regulation.

I'm also not sure about the railroad part. Streets, highways.. sure. But railroads? That's for private industries. Might as well say the government exists to build toll roads for private parties.

And the invasion people are worried about isn't going to come from the north, but the south.

 

[SaroDarksbane]

Re: E-conservatives and libertarianism

and looking for a free lunch.

Free lunches are exactly what libertarianism isn't. :crazyeyes:

 

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Re: E-conservatives and libertarianism

I'm having trouble figuring out that last post. Are you suggesting that libertarians don't think home schooling should be legal?

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks we have a true enough "free market" (i.e. the general public has perfect information) for there to be no regulation.

I meant subsidized home schooling. And as far as I understand, Libertarians would argue for very little restrictions on the market, despite the current scapegoating. The theory of an efficient market doesn't depend upon truly motivated government regulators; it depends on financially self interested rational actors poring over the data and punishing liars with their dollars. A good example might be how reliable or effective something like consumer reports mag is compared to like your community better business division.

But meh, a couple of bad examples perhaps. I'll let one of the true believers give us a sales pitch if they want.

 

[AeroJonesy]

Re: E-conservatives and libertarianism

Libertarianism is very attractive to overprivileged idealistic young white males *****ing about their taxes and looking for a free lunch.

Or maybe it's appealing because people who have worked hard to get themselves in a good position in life don't like paying for other people's lunches. Is it that surprising that as the nation turns into a welfare state, the anti-welfare position starts to become more popular?

 

[lAmebAdger]

Re: E-conservatives and libertarianism

imbalance calls forth balance and vice versa

it's a simple principle of harmony that has held true for nations all of our history... it's just not all that noticeable, because it takes many decades to pull through that balancing/unbalancing act in which time there are newer issues which would be affected by that principle as well

 

[Dondrei]

Re: E-conservatives and libertarianism

Free lunches are exactly what libertarianism isn't. :crazyeyes:

That's why it's a scathing witticism.

You couldn't be more wrong. I suspect the internet gamer demographic is far more influential than the nascar dads, or just about anyone else. You are generally speaking about young (16-30), educated, males who know enough and care enough to debate. What could terrify the status quo more?

Sorry, are we talking about the gamer demographic or forum denizens? Ie, BNet tards or zombie-hunting trolls with green hair growing out of their feet?

They are a subset of young, educated males.

@socially liberal + fiscally conservative

That's the definition of a regan republican, not a libertarian. I think its more fair to say that libertarian is a truly third way, not measured by your two scales. Libertarians are not truly socially liberal; instead they think government should not regulate/subsidize/promote social behavior at all -- conservatively or liberally (ie both drugs and abortion are legal, but affirmative action and home schooling are not). Likewise, they aren't fiscally conservative; instead they think government should let the free market regulate itself. Libertarians want small government, yes, but they envision the government as a tool to build railroads and to protect against the canadian invasion threat, not as a tool to promote the welfare of its population.

As far as I know, anyhow. I should probably read up on the ron paul ****.

I think you're confusing socially liberal with left wing. The left isn't entirely socially liberal. Don't know what's gone wrong with your definition of economic conservatism, guess that's the result of the morass that is the modern Republican party.

Reagan Republicans weren't terribly socially liberal, he was a compassionate conservative, not a liberal one.

Or maybe it's appealing because people who have worked hard to get themselves in a good position in life

Uh, we just finished discussing how libertarians are college kids with parents who can afford to make them such.

And libertarianism isn't very popular, never was really, it was an elitist intellectual movement and is now more academic than ever.

 

[KillerAim]

Re: E-conservatives and libertarianism

Dondrei:

That's why it's a scathing witticism.

You might want to tell us when you're trying to be funny. That way, I can distinguish your "witticisms" from your "foot in mouth-isms".

Uh, we just finished discussing how libertarians are college kids with parents who can afford to make them such.

No, you're the only one that made that ridiculous claim. Please explain how having money makes it easier for one to believe that you have the right to control your own destiny but not the right to control the destiny of others.

And libertarianism isn't very popular, never was really,...

Personal opinion unsupported by any facts.

it was an elitist intellectual movement and is now more academic than ever.

Another, uh, witticism? Libertarianism is the most non-elitist position you can take.

Definitions of elitism taken from the web:

• the attitude that society should be governed by an elite group of individuals,
• elitist - someone who believes in rule by an elite group.
• the belief or practice that government should be by a self-appointed group who consider themselves superior to those governed by virtue of their higher birth.

How do you reconcile those definitions with the belief that a person has the right to do anything he wants, no matter how stupid or dangerous, as long as he doesn't directly affect the rights of others.

 

[Dondrei]

Re: E-conservatives and libertarianism

As in it was a fad among the cultural elite.

I see that free lunch thing really stings, guess I hit the nail on the head.

 

[AeroJonesy]

Re: E-conservatives and libertarianism

I see that free lunch thing really stings, guess I hit the nail on the head.

KillerAim or Saro, feel free to correct me, but I thought that libertarians weren't demanding a free lunch, but rather, they were opposed to paying for the free lunches of others.

 

[BobCox2]

Re: E-conservatives and libertarianism

What is this Cultural Elite you speak of?