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during work i thought of this...

Discussion in 'Hardcore' started by BaNiSeR, Apr 2, 2004.

  1. BaNiSeR

    BaNiSeR IncGamers Member

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    during work i thought of this...

    so we have a sorc with max TK and max e-shield sending 75% dmg to the mana pool. with some +skills you can easily reach 95% conversion.

    now heres what i thought of, equip whatever combo of items you can to achieve 100% dammage taken goes to mana mod. my thought was this...you take dammage, 95% of it gets xfered to the mana pool at .75 mana lost per 1 point of dmg (if im remembering the max TK rate wrong please correct me :)). then all the dammage you recieved gets converted to mana from the 100% conversion mod, and bam! your mana bulb is completely full again.

    would this work? or would only 5% of the dammage be converted as only 5% is taken as actual physical dammage?

    if i am being confusing, sorry ^_^ i just had to try and remember this from when i thought of it at work lol it seemed pretty clear to me :p
     
  2. PhatTrumpet

    PhatTrumpet IncGamers Member

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    stupid double-post error
     
  3. PhatTrumpet

    PhatTrumpet IncGamers Member

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    I'm not exactly sure whether the dmg to mana mod is factored in before or after Eshield, but attaining "100% dmg taken goes to mana" is rather impractical afaik.
     
  4. Silkweed

    Silkweed IncGamers Member

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    I remember reading about something like this in the sorc forum. Basically, the purpose is to be able to use your mana bulb as your life bulb by having maxed TK, EShield (I think? I don't use it, wouldn't know), and as much damage generates mana gear as possible.

    I would expect that you'd run into problems when fighting against elemental attackers, like gloams, but I forget how EShield works because I don't use it.
     
  5. BaNiSeR

    BaNiSeR IncGamers Member

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    thats what i was thinking too, just get a sorc that cant die because attacks get absorbed by the mana, but the mana gets replaced by every attack more than is drained!

    though the largest leek in my ship would be if the dmg to mana is factored in before the e-shield conversion is lol

    and as far as i know 100% would be completely practical IF doing that would work in my line of reasoning. if not, then your completely right :)
     
  6. HAMC8112

    HAMC8112 IncGamers Member

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    I dont think that you can get 100% dmg taken goes to mana, see, the dmg taken is dmg taken from your life. This means to me that if you use Eshield and telekinese the dmg will not be taken from your life but from your mana wich is not converted back to mana.
     
  7. CoonerTheRed

    CoonerTheRed IncGamers Member

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    no, not true, ham. this does work, to an extent (remembering what i read, so you should really verify this in the sorc forum)

    - damage from mana happens first, converting back to mana happens second (not too bad if you don't get hit for all your mana in a very short amount of time... note the "short" there, it doesn't have to be one single hit, but over a relatively short amount of time, so gloams, etc are really trouble)

    - both are capped (i forget the cap though)

    - mana burn can hurt a lot, so you still need an ok life pool...

    - remember that resists are factored in AFTER mana, but (and here i'm REALLY uncertain) before damage taken? so, if i remember correctly, if you get hit for 100 fire damage, you lose 100 mana points, than resists are figured in, and then you get back 100 - whatever due to resists.

    i'm almost certain about the first 3, sketchy on the 4th

    all this doesn't take away all merits of the idea- some people use it and love it (mostly sc), others prefer the ultimate security of a big red orb. either way, you need a much bigger mana than life pool for this to be viable, since e-shield doesn't take into account resists, and as a sorc, elemental damage is about all you should take. really, i think a little of this is great, but don't sacrifice everything else to get lots of damage to mana
     
  8. MoUsE_WiZ

    MoUsE_WiZ IncGamers Member

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    Mana is deducted from the orb
    Then resists kick in
    Then damage to mana kicks in.
    ES and TK combined with dmg to mana items are not particularily effective vs elemental attacks.
    That said, it's still good.
    Starzia had 20 TK/75% ES while wearing Naj's Light Plate (45% return). I watched D-theGreat zerk him (6K before low % critical, which isn't bad for a ladder running PvM barb) for about 2 minutes without him taking any serious damage, of course I didn't get to watch his mana orb. I also hear beef took about 5 WWs to kill him, and he only juved once. I didn't actually witness that one, just got the /f m spam from the result ^^

    Also, 100% isn't a great number to shoot for, too high and Cooner just said it's capped. Wearing Naj's plate and Tal's belt however you'd get a fairly high % returned without having to sacrifice much to do so.
     
  9. xeyloderixed

    xeyloderixed IncGamers Member

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    mouse,

    does starzia play anymore? i know d died (not sure how....), and his other barb died too (d-great): is he running the ladder again? i'm sort of on and off his f list ><

    btw, are you back to d2x for good?
     
  10. MoUsE_WiZ

    MoUsE_WiZ IncGamers Member

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    1) Starzia was playing on Johnny's barb for a while after he quit, but I'm not sure if he was still doing occasionally when Johnny died. Other than that I haven't seen him at all.
    2) I feel sort of bad about D's second death because I told him that if he managed to get that barb killed I'd make more fun of him than I ever did of pure in terms of ability to put barbs into the top 16 barbs and then killing them less than 12 hours before he died...I haven't seen him since then, but I'd assume he's still playing. I got taken off his list when I moved to classic so I wouldn't know for sure.
    3) Yes, the player pool on classic just isn't big enough to stay there. I can only play solo for so long before I get bored so I guess on on LoD for good.
     
  11. xeyloderixed

    xeyloderixed IncGamers Member

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    (1) i was talking about johnny's barb. since it's technically his acct, and that barb died (may the barb god bless his soul) i assume he's done for good? :grrr:

    (2) i'm pretty sure he still plays, just not sure if he's still running the ladder. as an aside, i think pure is a total jerk, and is just a bad player. how can you die that many times with an (i assume) immortal lvl 9x barb? he probably put in the most ladder hours in east and still isn't close to the top spot.... i mean come on, 2 96 barbs dead, aside from other 9x casualties.

    (3) hmm, i've decided on the "non-quitting" option myself.... and i stopped running the ladder after my necro's death. now i'm mfing madly to build a "perfect" necro. i wonder when i'll be done with that project (need jah, 2 ber, 2 ohm, sur, vex, and countless uniques, and i actually have to find the runes as i despise hacks/dupes.....)
     
  12. HAMC8112

    HAMC8112 IncGamers Member

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    Well; does dmg taken mean dmg taken from your life or not? 75% of the dmg is absorbed by your manabulb true telekineses, that leaves 25% that is taken of your lifebulb. So to get that 25%dmg converted to mana you need 100% dmg taken goes to mana. That does not seem a good idea to me, Cooner can you explain where i am wrong here?
     
  13. BaNiSeR

    BaNiSeR IncGamers Member

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    hmm, thanks guys, i think ill look into how its caped then and which items would be best to get a nice % and test it out :)
     
  14. CoonerTheRed

    CoonerTheRed IncGamers Member

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    i think it's basically damage you "would have taken ignoring eshield." for instance, if i get hit by a 100 pt shot from some monster, all phys, unblocked, no dr, i would take 75*.75 (for good tk) points hit to my mana, and 25 to my life. Then, assuming 75% damage to mana, i would get 75 points back in mana. This is obviously very rough... i'm not sure I'm not missing something, but I think this is the general idea. So no, it isn't returning 75% dam to mana * 25 points taken from life, but 75% *100, the original damage. So you can see this is great for physical damage, but not so good for elemental damage, which comes off your mana before resists. Then you damage taken is calculated, and you take 1/4 of that off life, and get 75% back in mana.

    But please, most of this has been explored heavily in the sorc forum, so check them out... their info is much more solid than mine.
     
  15. Mn_Swe2

    Mn_Swe2 IncGamers Member

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    IIRC "dmg to mana" only work for MELEE dmg, so ranged dmg will cause you big problems.

    /Magnus
     
  16. ventilator

    ventilator IncGamers Member

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    Damage taken goes to mana is based on the actual damage to your life, not on the damage before ES or (physical) resists. Also, after the attack damage has been worked out, the damage taken goes to mana is applied before the manaloss from ES absorb, meaning you won't get back any mana if your manabulb was full before the attack.

    So to gain more than your lost mana you'll need a DtoM percentage of

    ((32 - BaseTKlevel) / 16) * (ES% / 100) = (1 - ES% / 100) * (Other DR % / 100) * (DtoM% / 100)

    Just put your appropriate values in and solve for DtoM. For an example:

    lvl 16 TK, lvl 20 ES, 50% DR

    0.75 = 0.25 * 0.5 * (DtoM% / 100)
    6 = DtoM% / 100
    DtoM% = 600

    You need only 600% DtoM under the above circumstances to completely offset you manadrain ;)

    Edit: or to take your 20TK / 95% ES as an example, I assume 50% global resists again

    0.95 * 0.75 = 0.05 * 0.5 * (DtoM% / 100)
    0.7125 = 0.05 * 0.5 * (DtoM% / 100)
    DtoM% = 2850

    So yes, if you can achieve 2850% damage taken goes to mana a 95%ES max TK sorc will take no damage to her mana :p
     
  17. CoonerTheRed

    CoonerTheRed IncGamers Member

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    ok, so apparently i had everything backwards... but i'm confused, i know there were people who used this somewhat effectively, and mouse's comments back that up.

    i think the general consensus is obvious enough though- some of this is helpful, but don't go overboard

    edit: ok, so i've done a little more thinking. so clearly this is much better with a LOWER lvl eshield, say about 50%. You lose half the life you would have, and don't lose much mana in a repeated physical attack. Which fits nicely with the standard strategy of max tk, ~8-10 with +skills in eshield
     

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