Dueling help

Barnical

Diabloii.Net Member
Dueling help

Well, I only duel with friends, and the occasionally pubs, but mostly just friends. My friends consist of a wind druid, bone necro, smiter, and a hammerdin. Is that a character that can kill them efficiently, I was thinking a WW sin but I'm not sure howd that match against anyone.

Due know I'm only dueling friends, and sometimes pubs, so probably no BM. Just someone that can beat Kiba to a pulp (AwroooO!) and kill those chars mainly. Might even duel a bowzon too.

Just point me in a direction. Thanks.
 

Rabbitz

Diabloii.Net Member
I'd advice you to pick up a ww/trapper :)

Depending on youre hotkeys// and skill:

Windy - Should not be too hard.
Bone nec - Take up a widow, use bos, and only stop to shoot or lay traps. ( This means no more w8ting for that enivitable ibs to hit you from afar )
Smiter - If he's gm: Make sure you use the area to youre advantage, try to find some place with peddles where he's likely to get stuck with a mb + traps
Hammerdin - expect him everywhere, there's no real point in looking for peddles, get a mb lock on him ASAP, if a hammerdin is on youre screen without mb youre basicly either hoping for a lucky block or your dead.
 

Dennis_KoreanGuy

Diabloii.Net Member
I think bvc will do better overall against those 4 chars.

for build rabbitz suggested, go to assassin forums and look @happyassassin's hybrid guide.
 

Barnical

Diabloii.Net Member
I don't have the funds to fill my inventory with 3/20/19's and I don't have the riches to get shadow 45+ lifers, all of which are required to make those 2 builds work. My friends aren't fully decked, so any other suggestions? I'm semi-rich, not rich.
 

pedu

Diabloii.Net Member
Making a working bvc or assassin does not require you to get those charms.
 

lendial

Diabloii.Net Member
if you had to chose between ww/trap and bvc to begin with id suggest you chose bvc. you can gear him with just plain 17-20life sc and 100+/30+ gcs if your poor like me. then gradualy collect fine vita charms if you so want/have the time to.
 

Rabbitz

Diabloii.Net Member
I don't have the funds to fill my inventory with 3/20/19's and I don't have the riches to get shadow 45+ lifers, all of which are required to make those 2 builds work. My friends aren't fully decked, so any other suggestions? I'm semi-rich, not rich.
Lol :)

Pm me, ill send you the basic of a ghetto ww/trapper.



 

lendial

Diabloii.Net Member
wouldnt a bvc be cheaper anyways then? and he would not get owned easily by smiters/hammers/bvc ;x
 

Rabbitz

Diabloii.Net Member
A ww//trap assa is one of the finest chars to screw over an hammerdin.

Smiter: Depends... does he overabsorb. If no, you win... if yes.. probably not.

Bvc: The second one of these picks up a tg, my chances are pretty much screwed. I can win but... only at the cost of extreeeem defensive play.
 

lendial

Diabloii.Net Member
i disagree, hammers reach 4k hp, maxed resists so your traps will do nothing, and your venom very little, add in the fact he has massive defense and 75% blocking and you realize theres very little you can do. something as simple as 1 tgods+a few antidotes and he has just negated all your damage sources. sure you can keep him stuned lock till the cows come home but you wont kill him under 8 minutes length.

smiter, again the same problem, your traps will do no dmg, only help stun. you have low AR, and your dmg is mostly venom. you can beat some but the 4klife ones with good gear will just outright molest you.
 

Uncle_Mike

D2 PvP Moderator
i disagree, hammers reach 4k hp, maxed resists so your traps will do nothing, and your venom very little, add in the fact he has massive defense and 75% blocking and you realize theres very little you can do. something as simple as 1 tgods+a few antidotes and he has just negated all your damage sources. sure you can keep him stuned lock till the cows come home but you wont kill him under 8 minutes length.

smiter, again the same problem, your traps will do no dmg, only help stun. you have low AR, and your dmg is mostly venom. you can beat some but the 4klife ones with good gear will just outright molest you.
if paladin wears tgod only traps will still do dmg, if the assa uses whirlwind it is not that easy to namelock since traps are out there and assa is in ww. Do not underestimate hybrids. Do not forget double mindblast from assa and shadow as well. 1 point wake of fire helps stun too. Assuming friendly gm duels he stands a decent chance with trapper vs hammedin.
4 k hp is rather low for hammerdins btw.

Mike



 

order

Diabloii.Net Member
for a wwsin hybrid fire traps would be much more effective against hammerdins for stunlock. i have trouble damaging hammerdins with my ls traps especially when they sorb. even still i kill them quite often with just ww and mb.

overall against just specifically hammerdins a bvc would probably fair better than a wwsin altho they will definately cost much more.

also wwsins dont need 45+life gcs. they do just fine with 30+ which are relatively cheap compaired to other skillers.
 

moonlike

Banned
if paladin wears tgod only traps will still do dmg, if the assa uses whirlwind it is not that easy to namelock since traps are out there and assa is in ww. Do not underestimate hybrids. Do not forget double mindblast from assa and shadow as well. 1 point wake of fire helps stun too. Assuming friendly gm duels he stands a decent chance with trapper vs hammedin.
4 k hp is rather low for hammerdins btw.

Mike
ur hammer has 4.2k lol :p



 

HappyAssassin

Diabloii.Net Member
disagree, hammers reach 4k hp, maxed resists so your traps will do nothing, and your venom very little, add in the fact he has massive defense and 75% blocking and you realize theres very little you can do. something as simple as 1 tgods+a few antidotes and he has just negated all your damage sources. sure you can keep him stuned lock till the cows come home but you wont kill him under 8 minutes length.
That's just not true, a hammerdin with 5k life, max res and tgods gets hurt slowly but steadily by 7k traps. Antidotes don't negate venom. A WW/Trapper can have Angelics and a Fools claw for very high AR.

A BvC can only beat a hammerdin if the BvC is very good. WW/Trappers are generally better if you aren't a top BvC player. Since you are on West Ladder, I can tell you for a fact that there isn't a hammerdin there who will beat a WW/Trapper if you play right (granted, there are like 2 hammerdins on West Ladder who are up to NL standards).

WW/Trapper is more efficient than a BvC vs. Windies. Both beat em, WW/Trapper does it better.

If it's GM, WW/Traps is just as good as BvC vs. a Smiter.

A BvC is better vs. a Necro if the Necro is good, mostly because you will do a lot of damage with just 2 hits, whereas the WW/Trapper needs more hits over time (OW) and needing more hits means more chances for the necro to IBS you. In a BM enviroment, BvC is also far superior. Both of them crush bowers quite easily, no problems there.

WW/Traps is cheaper. Hands down, a high grief is more expensive than a high Chaos, same goes for Beast vs. Fury, 3/xx/20s vs. Shadow GCs etc. The only thing on a WW/Trapper that can be super expensive is a top Fools claw or circlet.
 

Ce Olba

Banned
That's just not true, a hammerdin with 5k life, max res and tgods gets hurt slowly but steadily by 7k traps. Antidotes don't negate venom. A WW/Trapper can have Angelics and a Fools claw for very high AR.
Yes, I truly want to see someone with 90-95% Lightning resistances with a Wisp and TGod's, 90-95% Poison Resistances with 75% Poison Length Reduced and still retain 50% PDR and possibly 75% blocking. Sounds pretty impossible to me.

A BvC can only beat a hammerdin if the BvC is very good. WW/Trappers are generally better if you aren't a top BvC player. Since you are on West Ladder, I can tell you for a fact that there isn't a hammerdin there who will beat a WW/Trapper if you play right (granted, there are like 2 hammerdins on West Ladder who are up to NL standards).
Having mainly played with a BvC in PvP, I have to disagree. I'm not that much of a "good" BvC, meaning I do not exactly 5-0 the top PvPers, nor am I even equal to them. But still, I have dueled a ton of hammerdins, and constantly I've only lost to the best Hammerdin Player on Europe, Vic (RIP_TheJesus). So, either you Westies have way higher standards, or your BvCs suck, or your hammerdins are ungodly. Or I overexaggerated your statement.

A BvC is better vs. a Necro if the Necro is good, mostly because you will do a lot of damage with just 2 hits, whereas the WW/Trapper needs more hits over time (OW) and needing more hits means more chances for the necro to IBS you. In a BM enviroment, BvC is also far superior. Both of them crush bowers quite easily, no problems there.
I've not run into a Bonemancer who would use IBS excessively good in a long time. And the one that used IBS excessively well, I was never able to duel with my current BvC, as he quit back when my BvC had 7k AR with pubsetup and no CoA or Grief.

As for the overall dueling versus Bonemancer, you should also take notice of the fact that Leap is pretty much superior versus Bonemancers compared to MB. I mean, you do not have to stop for Leap to be at it's fullest, nor do you need to take a namelock. The time that it takes to get a namelock and a few MBs off can be crucial if you are in the middle of a field of IBS.

WW/Traps is cheaper. Hands down, a high grief is more expensive than a high Chaos, same goes for Beast vs. Fury, 3/xx/20s vs. Shadow GCs etc. The only thing on a WW/Trapper that can be super expensive is a top Fools claw or circlet.
This is something I have to agree on. There was a time I was gonna make a WWsin instead. Unless you are looking for next-to-perfect gear like >40 life skillers only, 10% at most off-perfect chaos with the most ungodliest +skills (+3 venom +3 Lightning Sentry +2 Shadowmaster), a WWsin will be extremely cheap compared to a BvC. You can get a decent chaos at ~10% of the price of a cheap Grief.



 

Rabbitz

Diabloii.Net Member
First off:

I dont get youre first statement, what are you trying to say?

Decent chaos doesnt pay attention to the ed. Hell it could be the lowest one around and i'd use it if it has 3ls/df/sm.
 

moonlike

Banned
7k traps are nothing when 4.5k hammer wears tg .

grief on ladder is now almost free
gc life/ar and rest sc are as much expensive as trap/shadow sks
 

Rabbitz

Diabloii.Net Member
It hard, very hard to for hammerdin to succesfully lock a ww//trapper. Even with that in mind..

Yes 7k traps dont hurt alot, but they still hurt, it still can chip into you :)

Happyassasins assa ( if I read the guide correctly ) invested in (equilly? ) in his ww and traps. Therefore he has low trap damage (7k) and around 3-4k (?) ww? Correct me if im wrong :)

My opionion is just, 7k traps generaly dont cut it for me in priv duels where I can count on that steady flow of absorb coming my way. Even less so in pubs where you expect to get overabsorbed.
 
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