Dtail + TS vs synergized Meteor charge of PS .. which is better? d

Kaze

Diabloii.Net Member
Dtail + TS vs synergized Meteor charge of PS .. which is better?

Im new to sins and im experimenting with the martial arts skills with my first assa ... and i like the playing mechanics a lot ;)

So which u think it does more fire area damage over time , Dtail + TS or Meteor PS ? i guess Dtail does more but lot more? I have tested fully sinergized Meteor PS and is quite good , and if u use another charge of PS also, its 20 skill points less for a fire area attack instead of Dtail + TS ...
 

C-Beat

Diabloii.Net Member
Well, Dtail will deal more dmg over time. PS needs 1 charge up for meteor to drop, which with +12skills would deal ~2.6k average inpact dmg. If you charge up 2 more times but with TS and release with dtail you should hit about 25-30k (i think). So basicly, it's either 2 meteors or 1 release with dtail...2*2.6k or 25k dmg? (add about 2.6k fire dmg to the meteor drop to compensate for the burning time).

Now, Dtail is half physical and half fire so when it comes to pure fir dmg then meteor might deal more if you let a few drop first so the fire dmg can stack. However, not many monsters can withstand 25k dmg from dtail.

I've allways wanted to try a Dtail/PS hybrid :) (max ts, dtail, ps, cot or fof)

C-Beat
 

Kaze

Diabloii.Net Member
Yes the listed damage of Dtail charged with TS is huge ... and that brings to me another doubt , that listed damage is the real damage dealt to the monster , and to the monsters around this 1 in form of fire AOE dmg? so for example, if I hit a group of monters with 0 physical and fire resistance with a listed charged up Dtail of 25K damage, all te monsters in the AOE including the inital monster receive 25k damage, or there is some kind of reducction? coz it seems way 2 much ...

And yes the sin I'm raisin in ladder is like the assa u say, 20 TS 20 DTail 20 PS and raisin CoT right now :) ... many thanx for the fantastic "Striking Tiger, Lashing Dragon" TS/Dtail Assassin Guide
 

C-Beat

Diabloii.Net Member
yes, the maximum dmg dealt can me that high. thats why the skill is so powerful. do remeber though that it takes 4 attacks to deal that much.

acctually, i played around with the skill calculator and i would probably do something more like this:
20 PS
20 Dtail
15 fof
15 cot
rest in ts.

TS get such a huge bonus that i could probably move some points to cot and fof. It would be nice to have the lightning charge of ps for crowds and the meteor for bosses. it should work very well. with 13+skills it should still deal good dmg. adding a few ma charms would bring it even higher!! woho

C-Beat
 

jrichard

Diabloii.Net Member
Dtail's damage listed on the character screen is the damage done to the target the kick is released on. That includes the TS boosted kick damage and the AoE damage. The damage done in the AoE alone is less. This is from the kicking sticky:
Here's a quick run through of the minimum damage equation using 220 str, 150 dex, level 20 TS, level 20 Dtail, and myrmidon greaves:

MinDamage = (220 + 150 - 20) / 4 * (100 + 1440) / 100 + 83 * (100 + (220 * 120 / 100) + 1440) / 100
MinDamage = 350 / 4 * 1540 / 100 + 83 * (100 + 264 + 1440) / 100
MinDamage = 87 * 1540 / 100 + 83 * 1804 / 100
MinDamage = 133980 / 100 + 149732 / 100
MinDamage = 1339 + 1497
Min Damage = 2836

Because we're using Dtail, we multiply the result by the Dtail bonus to find the damage done in the area of effect.
Dtail AoE MinDamage = 2836 * 240 / 100
Dtail AoE MinDamage = 680640 / 100
Dtail AoE MinDamage = 6806

That's the AoE damage of Dtail, to get the total damage shown on the character screen, add the damage from the kick itself and the AoE damage:

2836 + 6806

9642 is the minimum damage that would be displayed on the char screen.
The damage done in the AoE is 100% fire. It's based off of the physical damage done by the release kick. So, if you release Dtail on a PI, no physical damage will be done and no fire damage will be done in the AoE. That's the trade off for the huge damage dtail will do. It has issues with two immunities instead of one.

jrichard
 

Frenzied Bovine

Diabloii.Net Member
Out of interest, JRichard, where do elemental Fire damage adders come into that equation, for example, Ormus Robes??

Would Ormus Robes multiply the total DTail AOE fire damage by a further 15%?

Eg, according to your equation, are we looking at 6806 x 1.15 AoE damage, and 2836 + (6806 x 1.15) damage to target? 6806 x 1.15 = 7826 btw..
 

Frenzied Bovine

Diabloii.Net Member
What JR is saying is that the character screen displays kick physical damage + AoE fire damage. In essense, it's displaying the damage you will deal to the kick target, which is higher than that dealt to the area.
 

C-Beat

Diabloii.Net Member
ok, but even if the kick dmg is removed the dmg should still be very high! the kick itself doesnt do that much dmg, around 3-4k i think.
 

Frenzied Bovine

Diabloii.Net Member
According to his example just above, you can see a character screen displayed damage of ~9.5k, which is broken down into approximately 3k kick and 6.5k fire AoE damage components.
 

C-Beat

Diabloii.Net Member
yes, but 25-30k dtail should still have about 20k, or more, fire AoE dmg...which still is alot...
 

C-Beat

Diabloii.Net Member
guess i got in a bit over my head :rolleyes:

PS should be a great skill to use in conjunction really....i really want to try it, just too bad i'm not into pvm that much anymore...mostly pvp.

This build should be good at mfing baal too though :)

C-Beat
 

Nosf

Diabloii.Net Member
im not sure if i get the deal with imunity of monsters.
If a monster got Physical Imune i cant do any damage to him?! the fire damage will not work?

In this case if i try to kill a Fire Imune my physical damage wont work too?
:scratch:
 

Frenzied Bovine

Diabloii.Net Member
Let me see if I can explain it.

The fire area of effect damage is based on the physical damage dealt. This includes monster resistances.

So if you are standing in the middle of a pack of Physical Immune monsters who are NOT immune to fire.. and you Dtail one of them.. the fire damage dealt to them will be zero! Because zero multiplied by anything ends up as zero.

In other words, dtail is no good against PI's. Fortunately, there aren't all that many PI's out there anymore - fire immunes are far more numerous.

You can circumvent the problem by kicking a monster NEAR the Physical Immunes who is not immune to Physical. Because your physical damage is then non-zero, the blast fire damage will be non-zero, and so the Physical Immunes will be hurt with the explosive fire damage.

As for Fire Immunes (who are NOT immune to Physical) you can still kick them one by one with dtail and deal physical damage to that target. The surrounding monsters should still be knocked back by the blast. Substantial FIRE damage will be dealt, but as the targets are all immune to it, it doesn't matter anyway.
 
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