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DS, CS, and Vengeance

Discussion in 'Paladin' started by Tib, Oct 20, 2006.

  1. Tib

    Tib IncGamers Member

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    DS, CS, and Vengeance

    Hey folks,

    I'm sure that DS and CS affect the physical part of the Vengeance damage calculation, but I'm not certain if it affects the elemental portion. Anyone know?
     
  2. Bladewind

    Bladewind IncGamers Member

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    it does not.
     
  3. Tib

    Tib IncGamers Member

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    All right, this means that Grief would be the best rw for a Vengadin, right? Or does ED count towards it?

    The way I figure: the amount displayed for normal attack is the amount calculated for vengeance enhances. Right?
     
  4. Bladewind

    Bladewind IncGamers Member

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    Nope Grief will be downright the worst. The + damage of Grief does not count for Vengence. Best choices will be Ebotdz or even eth Stormlash.
     
  5. Asmodeous

    Asmodeous IncGamers Member

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    Not grief. Oath is the best of the inexpensive rune words for an avenger. use a ethereal conquest sword or beserker axe and hope you get a 300% ed+ roll. Also the built in 50% ias is a huge bonus in getting a good attack speed.

    And on your topic of the post, deadly strike & crushing blow do little on a well set up avenger. If your achieving a 1-2 hit kill on most monsters then DS & CB are a waste. The only time they will help is against champions, uniques and bosses.
     
  6. Tib

    Tib IncGamers Member

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    Why Oath? Wouldn't Death be a better solution? or an eth dc?
     
  7. Veilside

    Veilside IncGamers Member

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    Oath is cheaper, and can be made in flails which look sexy.



     
  8. Tib

    Tib IncGamers Member

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    :) Price is of no concern to me. I'm willing to pay quadrupel for 10 extra damage :)

    I understand Oath is a decent weapon, possibly a twnk, but end-game offeres much better soultions. I'm wondering if there is something about Vengeance I don't know that reacts with Oath :)



     
  9. PhatTrumpet

    PhatTrumpet IncGamers Member

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    There isn't.

    Top choices include Famine and the usual eBotD (both in zerker axes of course).

    Death is too slow to be of any use, and DC would be completely pointless due to the wasted Deadly Strike.



     
  10. Delreich

    Delreich IncGamers Member

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    Oath has (a lot of) IAS, Death doesn't...

    Asmo did say inexpensive though, so Death might not have been considered becuse of that.
    However, all Death has that Oath is missing is the 45-90% extra ED, so I'm not so sure.

    Can't see how a DC would stand a chance at all. Less IAS, less ED, not indestrucable...
    A spare socket can hardly make up for all that.
     
  11. Veilside

    Veilside IncGamers Member

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    What about the huge CB and DS on Death?



     
  12. Delreich

    Delreich IncGamers Member

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    Having no experince of avengers myself, I rely on Asmo.


     
  13. Veilside

    Veilside IncGamers Member

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    I was refering to your comment of all death has is a bit of extra %ed which is untrue. Also the cb will greatly help your boss killing potential.



     
  14. PhatTrumpet

    PhatTrumpet IncGamers Member

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    I don't know if there's any amount of CB that would make up for Death's slow speed. Avenger's tend not to have much room for IAS in the rest of their gear.
     
  15. Bjam

    Bjam IncGamers Member

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    I have fast killing, nearly indestructable Avenger (PvM only) so I'm just gonna tell you what I'm using and why, since it is working so well. You'll notice I have 0% CB, and I assure you that it doesn't matter. I can tank Baal's minions like a Grief wielding Zealot, and Champions, Super Uniques, and Bosses go down very very fast.

    Weapon: eBotDz (Has it all: huge damage, 60% IAS, stats, dual leech)
    Switch: None personally, but obviously CTA would be nice
    Helm: Perfect Gaze (big DR, dual leech; CoA might be better if you are rich)
    Gloves: Lava Gouts (Laying of Hands would work too, but not as fun)
    Armor: Archon Fort (extra physical damage and helps leeching a lot)
    Belt: T-God (life, strength, light dmg, max light res +10%; Dungoes or String are excellent too and I prefer them for the extra DR when battling Baal's minion's)
    Shield: HoZ (blocking, stats, resists, +skills, and socketable; for an Avenger, it is far superior to Exile)
    Boots: Upped Tearhaunch (I love vigor, but not spending points for it, also gives stats and resists; this may be my only controversial selection, but you can also use good rares, War Travs, eth Treks, Waterwalks, whatever)
    Rings: Raven (no brainer)/really good rare (use a BK if you have one)
    Ammy: Mara's (Highlord's would be nice for IAS, but I need the resists and +2 skills gives a nice damage boost)

    Inventory: Torch, anni, and any good combo of life, damage, resist charms, or skillers that works for you.

    Merc: Might merc with Eth Doom Polearm

    End result at level 83:
    Life: approx 2000
    DR: 20% to 35% (add 8% or 16% if you Ber the Gaze/HoZ, but I am using IAS jewels)
    Damage: Over 7K average damage (effectively much higher due to Vengence...and I have no skillers equipped)
    Resists: 80/80/95/75 (T-God) 80/80/85/75 (Dungo/String)
     
  16. Bladewind

    Bladewind IncGamers Member

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    if u want CB, use guilimare's face and gores with an Ebotdz. That way you won't lose out too much in terms of speed.
     
  17. Tib

    Tib IncGamers Member

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    *cracks fingers* I"ll do some number-crunching and elighten you all up with results.
     
  18. Tib

    Tib IncGamers Member

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    I can't edit anymore, but here's a template I'm going to use to replicate the damages. Let me know if I'm off.

    Name - Illustrator's Axe
    Weapon - Tib's Axe
    Min Damage - 50
    Max Damage - 100
    IAS - 40
    +Dmg - 100
    ED - 250
    Min Dmg - 525
    Avg Dmg - 613
    Max Dmg - 700
    + EFire - 184
    + ECold - 184
    + ELight - 184
    + Avg Fire - 1739.5
    + Avg Cold - 1739.5
    + Avg Light - 1739.5
    AVG DMG - 5831



     
  19. Tib

    Tib IncGamers Member

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    Okay, I've done some homework, and here to report my top 3 for each of the following: weapon, shield, helm, armour.

    Weapon.
    #1 - Death Eth Zerker
    #2 - BotD Eth Zerker
    #3 - Oath Eth Zerker

    Shield.
    #1 - Dream
    #2 - Phoenix
    #3 - Hoz

    Helm.
    #1 - Griffon's
    #2 - Dream
    #3 - Didn't bother to check any others. Maybe 2*5/5 CoA would do well.

    Armour.
    #1 - Fortitude
    #2 - Dragon
    #3 - Didn't bother with any others, but you may chose to go with defence route or +skills (enigma).

    Best damage would be a toss up. BotD is a staple. Cheap, great second mods. Death will surpass BotD's damage, even if just the physical part is cs/ds, but BotD has leech which is very nice, and IAS, which is even nicer.

    Dream helm is nice for damage, but Griffon's is much better. If you can afford it, I highly recommend it. If you put Griffon's on head, pop Dream on shield. If you can't afford Griffon's, pop Dream on head, and Phoenix on shield with Dragon accompanying it.

    This gives you a nice dual light / fire build. If you want to go pure light (damage) then ignore Dragon and put on Fortitude (physical damage boost is actually superior to fire damage boost from dragon).

    If you're going for physical dmage route, switch BOTD with Death. So you've got Death, Griff's, Dream, Fort. This is physical / Light.

    Light/fire would go with BotD, Dream (helm), Dragon (arm), Phoenix shield.

    Phoenix works wonders with dragon equipped since it gives you that 28 to enemy resists mod :)

    I've already got all of the gear on a test pali I use with 1 into each skill, so I'm going to throw it all on my vengadin and switch it up for fun. If I find something else out that would benefit y'all, I'll let you know for sure.
     

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