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Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Mojotales, Jul 5, 2010.

  1. Mojotales

    Mojotales IncGamers Member

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    Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

    Which do you prefer to play? How come? Extra points (or at least gratitude) for a brief overview/battle plan/summary, as "in the Kitchen with the Candlestick" or, more to the point, "bear - neutron bomb move and fire claw FTW."

    Anyway, it would be appreciated.

    Mojo
     
  2. Milb

    Milb IncGamers Member

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    Re: Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

    Wolf is pretty fun, I had a dire time with the Bear though, others disagree but I hate them.

    Here's my two Druid Guardians so you can look at their skills:

    Wolf

    Bear
     
  3. omgwtfbbqpwned

    omgwtfbbqpwned IncGamers Member

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    Re: Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

    The more common wereform is the Werewolf. I'll run down the pros of both.

    /Werewolf Pros/
    - Although debatable, Fury/Feral Rage/Rabies is the better skill set compared to Maul/Shockwave.
    - Easy to hit good attack speed with Fury with a variety of weapons.
    - Werewolf gives good AR bonus.

    /Werebear Pros/
    - Faster Fire Claw than Werewolf with most weapons.
    - Shock Wave is one of the best crowd control skills in the game; area of effect stun, long duration, cheap mana costs.
    - Looks better than the Werewolf, although debatable.

    The Werebear is problematic in the sense that it's hard to get a fast weapon for Maul, whereas the Werewolf gets innate Skill Increased Attack Speed, and Fury is basically Zeal version 2. The AR bonus from Werewolf is also a lot better than the Defence bonus from Werebear. If I was to do a naked Druid, I would take the Werebear because Shock Wave leaves your enemies incapacitated for quite a long time. Weapon tip: Shapeshifters rely on Weapon IAS quite heavily, that is to say 20 IAS on your weapon will boost attacking speed a lot more than 20 IAS coming from gloves, etc.

    A quick run-through of some Shiftshifting builds:

    /Fury Werewolf/
    - Use Fury 90% of the time.
    - Use Feral Rage liberally if your life bulb is low, or use it to gain Faster Run/Walk to run faster.

    /Fury Rabies Werewolf/
    - Same as above, except use Rabies as a supporting skill. Basically, hit with Rabies (it'll spread if monsters touch), and then switch to using Fury.

    /Fire Claw Rabies Werewolf/
    - Same as Fury Rabies, replace Fury with Fire Claw.

    /Maul Werebear/
    - Open with Shock Wave. Use it liberally.
    - Use Maul until your green ball is big, then use Fire Claw to unleash it for additional AR bonuses. You only need 1 point in Fire Claw (it's only being use for the AR bonus, not fire damage).


    /Maul Fire Claw Werebear/
    - Open with Shock Wave. Use it liberally.
    - If you synergize Fire Claw, same strategy as above, but now you use Fire Claw for its fire damage as well.

    /Shockwave Summoner Werebear/
    - Use Shock Wave. Let your minions deal damage.

    /Fire Claw/
    - Use Fire Claw.
    - Support with Feral Rage if you're a Wolfie, Shock Wave if you're a Teddy.

    /Hunger Werebear/
    - There's two doctrines to this skill; either stock up on lots of Crushing Blow and elemental damage (i.e. SSoG), but most people prefer the second doctrine, which is to just to use Maul liberally until the green ball is big, and then use Hunger.

    Spirit - Oak Sage or Heart of Wolverine?

    For PvM, I take Heart of Wolverine 9/10 times with my Shapeshifters.

    And last, gg weapons:

    /Fury/
    - There are a lot of options. If said weapon can have 40 IAS, chances are it'll work. Look for high %ED.
    - Ribcracker, Griswold's Redemption, 'Grief', 'Breath of the Dying', 'Oath', Nord's Tenderizer, Baranar's Star, Horizon's Tornado, Stormlash, Windhammer, Cranium Basher, Earth Shifter, Death Cleaver, Razor's Edge, Cranebeak, Ethereal Edge, Bonehew, Tomb Reaver, Stormspire, The Reaper's Toll, Azurewrath, Lightsabre, Buriza, Arioc's Needle, Viperfork, Fleshripper, Immortal King's Stone Crusher, Astreon's Iron Ward, Heaven's Light, just to name a few. Most of these will need Shael runes.

    /Maul/
    - Less options.
    - Ribcracker, 'Grief', 'Breath of the Dying', 'Oath', Griswold's Redemption, Windhammer, Death Cleaver, Razor's Edge, Cranebeak, Tomb Reaver, Stormspire, Azurewrath, Buriza, Arioc's Needle, Viperfork, Immortal King's Stone Crusher, Astreon's Iron Ward, Heaven's Light, just to name a few. Most of these will need Shael runes.

    /Fire Claw/
    - Plain 6 socket Phase Blade with Shael runes. You don't need physical damage. If you're hybridizing with Maul, see Maul.

    See here for attack speeds. Ideally, you want 4-7 frame Fury, 5-8 frame Maul.
     
  4. Mojotales

    Mojotales IncGamers Member

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    Re: Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

    Wow!

    As always, the forum comes through -- this is exactly what I needed to see but wasn't sure I'd even formulated the question well enough for people to respond!

    Being rather new to all this, I guess the AS is Attack Speed? What does the I stand for in IAS? I looked it up through Google but never found anything but the initials used -- and didn't mind admitting my foolish ignorance!

    Mojo

    p.s. Having played a bit years ago, the kindness and help here has gotten me miles ahead of where I thought I'd be, just trying to fill in a few holes! (Like the ones in my head)

    It looks like my mind of plan to use something smart -- like launch Rabies and bring in Fury to build from there. Again, great!

    M
     
  5. omgwtfbbqpwned

    omgwtfbbqpwned IncGamers Member

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    Re: Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

    Increased Attack Speed.

    WIAS = Weapon IAS. Any IAS found on the weapon.
    OIAS = Off-Weapon IAS, sometimes Off-Hand IAS. Any IAS found on non-weapons, or any IAS found the second weapon (Barbarian/Assassin only), respectively.
    SIAS = Skill IAS. IAS from skills (Werewolf, Burst of Speed, Fanaticism).
     
  6. Mojotales

    Mojotales IncGamers Member

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    Re: Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

    Ah-so, as my dear late Uncle used to say!

    I signed back on my lowly parked Druid Wolf (and leaving my Bear parked a little longer!) Maybe it's from looking at my assassin for the past45 levels, but I also see a floating ball circling my wolf as if building up a charge but swear I have no memory of the druid wolf having that feature! Is it the same kind of thing that releases with a move that finishes any buildup?

    One other question -- when looking for a weapon, I seem to recall a Maul is a good thing for the werewolf. What I'm just learning is about Runewords -- although only 28 now -- and wonder (1) Is Maul a good choice of weapon or (2) a good basic Runeword to incorporate on whatever weapon seems smart.

    Promise, my last question for the day!

    Mojo
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2010
  7. zarirazz

    zarirazz IncGamers Member

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    Re: Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

    ^^no, it's not a charge-up like the sins. it won't finish with another attack (although it'll last after some time unless reapplied). to keep it going just keep using the skill (feral/maul)

    and as long as the ball circles around you, you'll receive the bonuses it entails with other attacks..

    conclusion: feral rage = free life leech.
     
  8. omgwtfbbqpwned

    omgwtfbbqpwned IncGamers Member

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    Re: Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

    No, it's different. The Werewolf's Feral Rage has a red ball, the Werebear's Maul has a green ball.

    Each time you hit with these skills, the ball grows bigger and their effects are amplified. If you use another skill while the ball is still in effect, you will still benefit from the ball's effects. However, it's timered, so if you don't maintain the ball, it'll disappear after a while.

    For example, level 1 Feral Rage:
    Faster Run/Walk: +19% to +34%.
    Life Steal: +4% to 12%.

    If you use Feral Rage once, you'll see a small red ball. Each time you attack (including Feral Rage itself) with the Werewolf, you'll now have 4% life steal. In addition, you'll walk/run 19% faster.

    If you keep using Feral Rage, the red ball will grow bigger, and once it reaches it's maximum size for level 1, each time you attack (including Feral Rage itself) with the Werewolf, you'll have 12% life steal, and in addition, you'll walk/run 34% faster.

    If you stop using Feral Rage, the red ball will slowly shrink and wear off.

    [edit] See what zarirazz said, it's an easier read. :p
     
  9. ReadyTorches

    ReadyTorches IncGamers Member

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    Re: Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

    I have a werewolf in bnet, and it is really good. Mine is fury/feral rage with heart of the wolverine for its summon skill. With my 1255 botd TM i find my self destroying most mobs before they can even hit me, one draw back though is they can be sluggish on the move speed.

    Fury is zeal 2.0 with more then 4x the damage but 20% less attack. This doesn't matter with heart of the wolverine which grantes 153% more damage and 158% attack. Rabies' poison damage is not enough to make a dent in hell without poison sc's. Feral rage gives you life steal and move speed and at max its life leech is 4-**% and 19-55% move speed.

    Werewolf gets the strong of the abilities and werebear gets more life leech/ mana leech and stun. Werewolf pretty much hits a ias break through at 40ias with 3.5 which makes ias past that stupid (http://diablo3.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weaponspeed.php?lang=english).

    Gear for ww or wb:
    Weapon: ebotdTM/ebotdZ/ (TM is best two hander, zerk is best 1hander) you can also use stormlash eth/zod, death zerk.

    Armor: Chains of honor works the best by far, 65 res/8% reduce; still 750+ armor works fine. Fort on the other hand gives you high defense/30 res/300% damage. Past these I wouldn't recommend much but Levi or glad's.

    Helmet: Jalal's mane 30%fhr, 20% bonus to att, all res 30, +2 druid skills, +2 shape shift, 20 str, 20 energy. This is the pelt you should use because the fhr benefits you greatly and if you sheal the pelt it will help you hit the max fhr bp, the res is the most beneficial because in hell you will find yourself lacking in the res department. Cerebus bite is the next one in line giveing you 4 to shape shift, 2 to feral rage, and 60-120% bonus to att. This only use if you do not have Jalal's because its benefits are more kill quick or die.

    Gloves: Draq's are pretty much what you want here, the life tap and +10-15 to str makes this pretty much the end all be all of your gloves. You could craft ones probably but Draq's is an easy winner. Steel rends are good for the damage 30-60% I believe, and that is all.

    Boots: Gore riders nuf said.

    Belts: I would ride on Dungo's (verdungo's) the vit and damage reduce are your best friend since druids are so weak health wise. The fhr helps to meet the max fhr bp.

    Rings: Raven frost, the can not be frozen big help along with attack. Second ring should be a BK for the extra skill and main point of extra life.

    Amulet: Mara's you will need the res, and as previously stated you do not need the Ias from cat's eye or highlords. Without mara's my druid has 59 res in each area but lightning where its maxed.

    Shield: when using a one hander use Stormshield, the 35% reduce is king.

    Merc:
    Weapon: Doom, the holy freeze benefits alot. It has high damage and because of the holy freeze you can choose a nm act 2 might merc.

    Armor: Eth fort or glad's is fine.

    Helmet: Vamp gaze, delirium or Andy's; if you choose andy's ral it. If a sacred armor fort is used you must use Andy's with a fal in it. At 90+ my merc still does not have 220 str.

    Charms:
    Gcs: 1 to shapeshift is good, with only 4 you can hit 16k with might merc without fort. 1 12+ to fhr works good to (helps with bp)

    Large charms: stay away from these

    Sc: Look for life/Fhr/Move speed. With gear stated you only need 13 more fhr for max bp.

    Damage (for ww):
    Un-fort: tops around 16k with fury/ 9kish with feral
    Fort: 25k with fury/ I would have to xfer to check feral's

    Damage (for wb):
    not a clue

    PvP: most things pop in a shot; Paladin's and whirl barbs defense will provide a challenge (paladin's more block). Always go off sight to charge feral rage because you will need the move speed. Keep Bo applied because my druid without werewolf has 960 and with werewolf 2151 un bo'd and with no lifers. It is entirely possible to kill two or more people at once.

    Ubbers (if you were to): Always have a spinner, the physical immune take to many shots from fury.

    Skills:
    Max fury
    Max feral
    Max werewolf
    Max lycan
    Max heart of wolverine (mines level 93 and has all of them maxed)

    Always keep Feral rage on the left click and fury on the right (i find it easier to use). Hotkey werewolf, fury, wolverine for easy switching.

    That's about all I can say..... besides I'm making one to in sp.
     
  10. Mojotales

    Mojotales IncGamers Member

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    Re: Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

    I know, I did say no more questions tonight ... but ...

    this is so helpful.

    Is there a huge advantage to having a two handed weapon or, let's say, a two slot one handed weapon for Strength and a decent shield that can be strengthened by runes or gems? I kind of went straight to the 2 hander with a wolf, but that was before I got a wee bit better with crafting items.

    Mojo
     
  11. Mostly_Harmless

    Mostly_Harmless IncGamers Member

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    Re: Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

    I think the big advantage to two handers (besides the obvious: much more damage) is that you won't block as often. Werewolves block abysmally slowly but recover from actual hits very quickly, so shields tend to interrupt your attacks a lot. If you can keep your resists high enough without a shield, it's probably much easier to go two handed. If you do decide to use a shield, Rhyme is an excellent option (I love a grim shield/troll's nest for a base, but really anything will do). Another option to shoot for later is Sanctuary (again, base isn't terribly important, but a grim shield/troll's nest is stylish and effective).

    When looking for a weapon, remember that speed is really important. Wolves basically don't benefit from any OIAS, so you want to make sure your weapon is as fast as possible. Grief, Tomb Reaver or BotD are obviously amazing, but you don't need anything nearly that expensive. Ribcracker is an excellent cheap option, as is the IK Maul or Oath (I'd recommend a Feral Axe).
     
  12. ReadyTorches

    ReadyTorches IncGamers Member

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    Re: Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

    Like the other guy said, druids are not the best blockers at all, but you can supplement this with fhr (faster hit recovery). It is completely possible to have max res with a two hander. On my druid I also have a 508 ed ebotdzerk and when its on i hit around 9k less with fury then with the i do with the TM. On my druid it has about 260ish strength and 240ish dexterity I have about 12k attack without HoW but with it I have around 20k attack, any mob I click I kill. The only time I have gotten worried about not being able to fight was in an ubber game surrounded by diablo minions which ended up poping after 2 hits from fury or so.

    You will pretty much never have to worry about blocking at all with the druid, the only problem that I see is getting surrounded by the minions of destruction since they stun.

    With the weapons your second best choice is the ebotdzerk is almost 1/3 the attack of the TM tops out around 545ish but has all the same effects as in the wopping 15 life leech and the 30 to all stats.

    When your a low level go for a Honor Martel de fer, steel driver, bonesnap. One option for an end game weapon I forgot is a eth Tomb Reaver with 15/40's or just any jewel with 15 Ias, this is the only way to reach a tippie top pretty pointless Ias bp that lets you do 4.17 hits a second I believe. Though I still have doubts you can get to it.


     
  13. zarirazz

    zarirazz IncGamers Member

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    Re: Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

    ribcracker. get/find one and you're set for the whole game as a fury wolf.
     
  14. DeathMaster

    DeathMaster IncGamers Member

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    Re: Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

    Some how, I think gear like eBoTD shouldn't be a general suggestion.

    I thought this place was much sensible.

    Anyway, I'd suggest fury wolf. And go 2H.
     
  15. ReadyTorches

    ReadyTorches IncGamers Member

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    Re: Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

    Yeah I can see how you'd say that since zod is just so freaking hard to find. I can also say if you find a eth The Cranium Basher and put a sheal into it you'd be bringing the pain, along with finding an earth shifter it couldn't be eth but with the sheal you'd be back around the 40 ias you need. Just a note with the earth shaker you will be at 30% ias when you need 40%, for the bp. Remember non weapon ias does pretty much nothing.

    I could say go with rib cracker but the rate at which you kill things in hell will be unbearable, the fhr/ias on it is bad a** though.

    This is my wolf druid after the second act http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/4743/spdruid.png Mine was twinked though, but i'm sure if you roll some savage poleaxes you'd be fine. It has a max damage of 473 in ww with feral rage.


     
  16. nebux

    nebux IncGamers Member

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    Re: Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

    my wolf would disagree with this. remember this is Single Player, so no easy high runewords.
    @Mojotales omg gave you a good example of pros and cons for wolfes and bears and good weapon choices. SPF mat/pat thread, read some real sp builds under druid section, that way you understand some available gear and more tips for shapeshifters.



     
  17. Hammy

    Hammy IncGamers Member

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    Re: Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

    With the huge bonus to life, typically you are better putting points into Vit than Dex for shield blocking. You especially want to avoid shields with a bear, their block animation is really slow. There are a lot more readily available "good" 2handers than 1handers. Windhammer and Bonehew are both endgame viable, and most anyone around here would gladly give you five or so of each, just to make room in their stashes.


    -Hammy

    edit... Cranium Basher can't spawn ethereal.
     
  18. maareek

    maareek IncGamers Member

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    Re: Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

    You do realize that the point with the Ribcracker is to upgrade it, right? Unupgraded, it'd definitely be slow, but an upgraded Ribby, especially one with high %ED, is an extremely powerful weapon.

    Also, the upgraded Ribby has a required level of only 56, compared to the minimum of 69 of a BotD or Earth Shifter, 84 with the Tomby or the insane level 87 requirement on the Cranium Basher (which can't spawn ethereal, btw).


     
  19. zarirazz

    zarirazz IncGamers Member

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    Re: Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

    ^^even the unupped ribby makes a great weapon till you can upgrade it. you can even shael it first..
     
  20. ReadyTorches

    ReadyTorches IncGamers Member

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    Re: Druid - Werewolf Or Bear? Why?

    Yeah I found me a weapon to use the rest of the game now- Oath glorious axe- eth
     

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