Drop Rates
- Thread starter Dorfoumous
- Start date
Re: Drop Rates
I was pretty sure I was right. Although, I've found these before the bug was ever discovered, but I dont think it was from pure chests ;P
Re: Drop Rates
Which makes me think you're a complete liar. Then you basically say you've seen HR drop like rain from the sky and you can imagine I'm pretty skeptical. You'd have to have been playing decades to reasonably have seen all the HRs you've seen. So, I still don't believe a word you say. Got any screen-shots of these high-runes dropping?
As for the Kurast bug, well you are welcome to read the almost 100 page explanation on it in the SP forums :
http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=494938
You said :
Making it seem like most of your high runes came from these chests. To which I said, correctly :
Which is correct. Jah/Cham can only drop in chests/poppables in Act4 and Zod can only drop from chests/poppables in Act5.
Which makes me think you're a complete liar. Then you basically say you've seen HR drop like rain from the sky and you can imagine I'm pretty skeptical. You'd have to have been playing decades to reasonably have seen all the HRs you've seen. So, I still don't believe a word you say. Got any screen-shots of these high-runes dropping?
As for the Kurast bug, well you are welcome to read the almost 100 page explanation on it in the SP forums :
http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=494938
Re: Drop Rates
I said we had to open all of the chests/stashs/etc because thats how we did our runs. I asked if thats what you meant, and no I could be wrong about certain runes popping from chests because it was so long ago. I took it as you stated in the original post. "Zod can only drop in Act 5" I guess I wasnt making it clear to myself that you meant chests. Ive "found" a Zod in Kurast because that was one memory I would never forget and it was not from a chest. What is your problem? I already told you I have seen more than 4+ HRs drop in Kurast "At LEAST" with 4-5 people in the game. Kurast's chests are not the only way to retreive High runes. The area itself is a mine IMO. You assume it would take decades for me to find all of the HRs I claimed to have found while calling me a liar, well your a complete ignorant bastard for saying such things you have no clue of. With that being said, it seems your one of those flamers who "Just cant believe people find HRs"
I said I ran with 4-5 of my friends, and we RAN all of the areas we thought were the best chance and we found what we found (Arcane/Kurast/Abandon portals/Flayer Dun/City of Damned/Frozenstein/Tunnels/Palace Basement). I never said I have seen HRs drop like rain from the sky, did I? I simply said I have seen some drop in Kurast, now you tell me what the **** is the big deal about that? Stop *****ing about peoples finds.. just because you have never attempted to go on rune hunts/nor know how doesnt mean you can call people liars who have.
Id love to upload screen shots if I had taken them at the time, but most of the time they werent mine solo finds, they were as a group and since we were friends, we didnt CARE who got them. The whole point of it was to actually find certain runes and have an exciting feeling that a HR was found and it was fun with a lot of hard work and dedication.
So, now that you call me a liar, I guess you will assume others like Urlick were liars about their runefinds, yet he wrote and dedicated an entire guide to his findings.
I still dont seem why you are so upset, and yet I even took the time to explain myself/experiences to you. I believe only 3-4% of people actually explore most hard areas in hell mode, especially the ones I mentioned. The other 96-97% are boss running, baal running, chaosing, or ubering these days. Its amazing what people can find elsewhere if they put the effort into it.
-Dave
I said we had to open all of the chests/stashs/etc because thats how we did our runs. I asked if thats what you meant, and no I could be wrong about certain runes popping from chests because it was so long ago. I took it as you stated in the original post. "Zod can only drop in Act 5" I guess I wasnt making it clear to myself that you meant chests. Ive "found" a Zod in Kurast because that was one memory I would never forget and it was not from a chest. What is your problem? I already told you I have seen more than 4+ HRs drop in Kurast "At LEAST" with 4-5 people in the game. Kurast's chests are not the only way to retreive High runes. The area itself is a mine IMO. You assume it would take decades for me to find all of the HRs I claimed to have found while calling me a liar, well your a complete ignorant bastard for saying such things you have no clue of. With that being said, it seems your one of those flamers who "Just cant believe people find HRs"
I said I ran with 4-5 of my friends, and we RAN all of the areas we thought were the best chance and we found what we found (Arcane/Kurast/Abandon portals/Flayer Dun/City of Damned/Frozenstein/Tunnels/Palace Basement). I never said I have seen HRs drop like rain from the sky, did I? I simply said I have seen some drop in Kurast, now you tell me what the **** is the big deal about that? Stop *****ing about peoples finds.. just because you have never attempted to go on rune hunts/nor know how doesnt mean you can call people liars who have.
Id love to upload screen shots if I had taken them at the time, but most of the time they werent mine solo finds, they were as a group and since we were friends, we didnt CARE who got them. The whole point of it was to actually find certain runes and have an exciting feeling that a HR was found and it was fun with a lot of hard work and dedication.
So, now that you call me a liar, I guess you will assume others like Urlick were liars about their runefinds, yet he wrote and dedicated an entire guide to his findings.
I still dont seem why you are so upset, and yet I even took the time to explain myself/experiences to you. I believe only 3-4% of people actually explore most hard areas in hell mode, especially the ones I mentioned. The other 96-97% are boss running, baal running, chaosing, or ubering these days. Its amazing what people can find elsewhere if they put the effort into it.
-Dave
Re: Drop Rates
Maybe on Bnet, but on the SPF there are countless tournaments and many, many clear the entire game including me (except hell a lot of the time) on /p8 which gives the most drops possible. And in the couple years that I've been following the SPF I can count on two hands the amount of times posters have found Jah+ doing even full clear or thousands of runs of certain areas, etc. And the only reason why the SPF has any HRs at all is because of the superchests bug (mostly exploitable in Kurast - read the thread I provided?)
You say I'm being bitter, or jealous, or something ridiculous like that. Do you realize that the chance of finding Zod in the areas you described is 1 in SIXTY MILLION? Even in the best areas (of which none of them are the ones you described) it's still an impossible 1 in 20 million! I'm only being REALISTIC. The fact that you say you also have found Cham, Jah, whatever... it's a bunch of BS. Either that or you're the luckiest guy in the entire world ever. Go buy a friggin' lottery ticket.
The highest rune I ever found was Sur and I know I took about a million screen-shots. The fact that you don't have ONE is .... well, VERY strange.
Look.... if you seriously did find those runes then you are the luckiest person alive and good for you. BUT your results are definitely not indicative of the overall drop rates for the runes for others. 99.9999% of players have & will not see a HR drop in their entire d2 lives. Maybe even 2 or 3 d2 lives. To link it back to the point of this thread, that should be changed.
Maybe on Bnet, but on the SPF there are countless tournaments and many, many clear the entire game including me (except hell a lot of the time) on /p8 which gives the most drops possible. And in the couple years that I've been following the SPF I can count on two hands the amount of times posters have found Jah+ doing even full clear or thousands of runs of certain areas, etc. And the only reason why the SPF has any HRs at all is because of the superchests bug (mostly exploitable in Kurast - read the thread I provided?)
You say I'm being bitter, or jealous, or something ridiculous like that. Do you realize that the chance of finding Zod in the areas you described is 1 in SIXTY MILLION? Even in the best areas (of which none of them are the ones you described) it's still an impossible 1 in 20 million! I'm only being REALISTIC. The fact that you say you also have found Cham, Jah, whatever... it's a bunch of BS. Either that or you're the luckiest guy in the entire world ever. Go buy a friggin' lottery ticket.
The highest rune I ever found was Sur and I know I took about a million screen-shots. The fact that you don't have ONE is .... well, VERY strange.
Look.... if you seriously did find those runes then you are the luckiest person alive and good for you. BUT your results are definitely not indicative of the overall drop rates for the runes for others. 99.9999% of players have & will not see a HR drop in their entire d2 lives. Maybe even 2 or 3 d2 lives. To link it back to the point of this thread, that should be changed.
Re: Drop Rates
Thats life. You want rare items and random drops, you live with the rarest items having improbable drop chances.
Err...what? I am playing back through Diablo 1 and i can tell you right now you find alot more magic items in D2 than you do in D1
So? That is the nature of random drops. If you are arguing that there should be a way to essentially force particular items to drop, then continue to waste your breath, because it will not happen.
Rare items cease to be rare when everybody starts to find them. That is why they have such low drop rates. The very nature of random drops means sometimes you will hear stories of incredible luck while most of the time you will just hear people ***** that they never got what they wanted.
Thats life. You want rare items and random drops, you live with the rarest items having improbable drop chances.
Re: Drop Rates
Obviously, me finding Cham, Jah, Gul, and Ist arent impossible because I found them throughout YEARS of playing. Like I said, with a full game of people it increases those chances. If I'm the luckiest guy in the world than I guess all of the other people finding high runes everyday must be too. Please, re-vent your "REALISTIC" views a bit more or play the game with a full house more.
Bottom line - not all high runes are duped. Id say a good percent (10-15-20%) are legit high runes because people FIND them and stop basing it on the lottery.
-Dave
So you were talking about single player, Ok next time state that in your post. I know you may know this already, but theres a big difference in the amount of players in your game when running hard areas known to drop good runes.
I just called you ignorant for assuming someones a liar/judging them without knowing them and what they have done. Thats pretty bad and ignorant in my opinion, and usually people like that insecure about themselves, sorry.
Obviously, me finding Cham, Jah, Gul, and Ist arent impossible because I found them throughout YEARS of playing. Like I said, with a full game of people it increases those chances. If I'm the luckiest guy in the world than I guess all of the other people finding high runes everyday must be too. Please, re-vent your "REALISTIC" views a bit more or play the game with a full house more.
Ok, so thats what I call a bit hypocritical. First you said I was lieing and I'm the luckiest guy in the world by finding a single high rune like I told you, now your claiming your highest rune was a Sur rune. So I guess, in your "REALISTIC" sense, you MUST be the luckiest guy in the world too.
That is completely FALSE. You are sooo over-exaggerating there sir, or you have no idea what your talking about. Go ask old school players you know or anyone who has played this game for years. Everyone I know (most of them) have found at LEAST 1-2 high runes from Gul-Zod. This may have taken them YEARS.. I'm not saying its something they just "always found" when playing. Soloing something like doing 1000 Hell Baal runs is no where as near as good as doing a full house 8 player run, for example Arcane.
Bottom line - not all high runes are duped. Id say a good percent (10-15-20%) are legit high runes because people FIND them and stop basing it on the lottery.
-Dave
Re: Drop Rates
Many people (including me) on the SPF clear areas on /p8 which is a command on single player which stimulates the max players in the game AND max drops. Still I can count the amount of HRs found over the years from hundreds of people on two hands (that is, Jah & above). Unless the drop chances are radically different between SP & Bnet there is no reasonable explanation for your success at rune hunting & I have no choice but to believe that 99% of runes on Bnet are duped to hell.
That you, alone or in a group or whatever, have found Zod, Cham, Jah, & whatever else is insanely hard to believe. Even over a period of years. Period.
Think I'm insecure, think I'm jealous, think I don't know how the game works, post a million page overly defensive reply again, I don't care. It's not going to make me believe you any more than before.
This is going in circles, it's pointless.
Many people (including me) on the SPF clear areas on /p8 which is a command on single player which stimulates the max players in the game AND max drops. Still I can count the amount of HRs found over the years from hundreds of people on two hands (that is, Jah & above). Unless the drop chances are radically different between SP & Bnet there is no reasonable explanation for your success at rune hunting & I have no choice but to believe that 99% of runes on Bnet are duped to hell.
That you, alone or in a group or whatever, have found Zod, Cham, Jah, & whatever else is insanely hard to believe. Even over a period of years. Period.
Think I'm insecure, think I'm jealous, think I don't know how the game works, post a million page overly defensive reply again, I don't care. It's not going to make me believe you any more than before.
This is going in circles, it's pointless.
Orphan
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Drop Rates
With regards to the drop system, I'd like it to stay somewhere around D2's current one. As mentioned Hell difficulty isn't impossible with the high level gear, which makes the high level gear nice additions if the player is willing to put the effort in to get it, but not necessary. The duping situation on battle.net has given everyone this misconception that they need or must have these items, when in reality they do not. Not every man and his dog were supposed to have Enigma. I don't like it when people have this belief that everything should be easy to get.
In single player the drop rates should be increase though as the lack of trading environment will make certain items harder to get. Likewise, if they introduce the /players command again in SP it really should be treated as full allied players, rather than unallied.
I also like the randomness of D2. Yes it meant that it was possible for new players to get a lucky drop (like a HoZ from NM Meph on their first play through) but it's what hooks them on the game. I think everyone who has played the game has gotten their "lucky" drop when starting over, be in when they first started or a new ladder season. This is what makes the game interesting to me, being able to travel from Act 1 Normal to Act 5 Normal and have a few good items, many of which would completely different if I were to repeat that process with another character.
Note that the /players command in SP only simulates the maximum un-allied party members, which isn't the maximum available drops for normal mosters (though it technically is for act bosses, because they're no-drop generally reaches 0 at 3 allied party members, or 6 unallied).
With regards to the drop system, I'd like it to stay somewhere around D2's current one. As mentioned Hell difficulty isn't impossible with the high level gear, which makes the high level gear nice additions if the player is willing to put the effort in to get it, but not necessary. The duping situation on battle.net has given everyone this misconception that they need or must have these items, when in reality they do not. Not every man and his dog were supposed to have Enigma. I don't like it when people have this belief that everything should be easy to get.
In single player the drop rates should be increase though as the lack of trading environment will make certain items harder to get. Likewise, if they introduce the /players command again in SP it really should be treated as full allied players, rather than unallied.
I also like the randomness of D2. Yes it meant that it was possible for new players to get a lucky drop (like a HoZ from NM Meph on their first play through) but it's what hooks them on the game. I think everyone who has played the game has gotten their "lucky" drop when starting over, be in when they first started or a new ladder season. This is what makes the game interesting to me, being able to travel from Act 1 Normal to Act 5 Normal and have a few good items, many of which would completely different if I were to repeat that process with another character.
Hrus
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Drop Rates
ColdAsIce, you say that Hell difficulty is tough without uber rare uniques and runewords? It's supposed to be.
(Though with a little bit of concentration, game knowledge and skill, it could be done untwinked, without any reruns and with crazy builds. Solo.)
High runes and high unique items are rare for a reason, you have to play more to get them if you want your character to get stronger.
Easy to get imba items=everyone gets uber good soon=everyone has nothing to do to make his character better=lot of them gets bored sooner and they will stop to play the game sooner. It's of course good for causual players, but core RPG players want to earn to be better than players who don't play as much as them.
And with the actual drops randomness, it only support trading which is a good thing imho.
And with actual droprates, I got all unique and set items besides Tyraels (and Torch of Iro - but I can get it easily if I would run act1 normal targets). And the fact I didn't found Tyraels yet is what keeps me playing the game. It's good that even a Gosu players playing 24/7 don't have any item in the game and actually can play more in the hope to get them is good imho.
EDIT: BTW I don't trade at all, all my items are self-found.
EDIT: ColdAsIce: it's pointless to discuss if you are lucky with your rune finds... Cham is possible from LK dungeon monsters... but I guess your Sur from LK actually comes from the bugged superchests.
ColdAsIce, you say that Hell difficulty is tough without uber rare uniques and runewords? It's supposed to be.
(Though with a little bit of concentration, game knowledge and skill, it could be done untwinked, without any reruns and with crazy builds. Solo.)
High runes and high unique items are rare for a reason, you have to play more to get them if you want your character to get stronger.
Easy to get imba items=everyone gets uber good soon=everyone has nothing to do to make his character better=lot of them gets bored sooner and they will stop to play the game sooner. It's of course good for causual players, but core RPG players want to earn to be better than players who don't play as much as them.
And with the actual drops randomness, it only support trading which is a good thing imho.
And with actual droprates, I got all unique and set items besides Tyraels (and Torch of Iro - but I can get it easily if I would run act1 normal targets). And the fact I didn't found Tyraels yet is what keeps me playing the game. It's good that even a Gosu players playing 24/7 don't have any item in the game and actually can play more in the hope to get them is good imho.
EDIT: BTW I don't trade at all, all my items are self-found.
EDIT: ColdAsIce: it's pointless to discuss if you are lucky with your rune finds... Cham is possible from LK dungeon monsters... but I guess your Sur from LK actually comes from the bugged superchests.
3allied=5unallied and it's only true for Mephisto, Diablo and Baal, not for Andy and Duriel.Orphan said:
Sein Schatten
Diabloii.Net Member
Orphan
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Drop Rates
So assume the following example: You're in a game travelling through with your friend who's always close by, and there's 4 other people in a different act doing a MF run. Any monster you kill with have a no drop player modification of: 1 (you) + 1 (your buddy) + (0.5*4 = 2) = 4.
This is not to be confused with HP and Exp, which gets increased by everyone equally, regardless of whether they're allied with you or not.
Pretty much. Basically, ever monster has a no drop rate which determines when the monster drops nothing. Additional players in the game reduce this no drop chance, but how much they reduce it by depends on those players status and location. If those players are allied with you and within two screens of any monster you kill then they are treated as a full player, otherwise they're treated as half a player. In other words, even if the player is allied with you, but off in a different act then they're treated the same as someone who isn't allied to begin with.
So assume the following example: You're in a game travelling through with your friend who's always close by, and there's 4 other people in a different act doing a MF run. Any monster you kill with have a no drop player modification of: 1 (you) + 1 (your buddy) + (0.5*4 = 2) = 4.
This is not to be confused with HP and Exp, which gets increased by everyone equally, regardless of whether they're allied with you or not.
Re: Drop Rates
the problem of the current system IMO is that the system places TOO much emphasis on MF. take a look at the ladder reset, for the first two days or so all you saw was sorks and hammerdins. Took me a week before i saw a druid. I think that they should increase set and unique drops a bit and throw MF out the door completely, because right now MF is really what dominates the endgame. Id like to see more endgame stuff rather than running pindle for 4 straight hours. maybe better PVP or something, but not MF. I made the rich richer, and the poor poorer.
the problem of the current system IMO is that the system places TOO much emphasis on MF. take a look at the ladder reset, for the first two days or so all you saw was sorks and hammerdins. Took me a week before i saw a druid. I think that they should increase set and unique drops a bit and throw MF out the door completely, because right now MF is really what dominates the endgame. Id like to see more endgame stuff rather than running pindle for 4 straight hours. maybe better PVP or something, but not MF. I made the rich richer, and the poor poorer.
Re: Drop Rates
The lack of weapon requirement for hammerdins and sorcs means having a 125 mf weapon set switch is super easy for them, though that's the case with necros, wind druids, assassins etc.
Aside from that, the hammerdin and sorc are the most mobile classes and additionally the easiest to gear. They both do excellent with simple runewords and between Teleport for the sorc, Charge and Endurance aura for the pala, they are the classes that can most effectively kill any boss easiest.
if you removed the MF stat from D2 you would see the exact same thing, because the real reason is concentrating loot at bosses, and only giving 2 classes extremely good mobility options to get to those bosses while skipping everything else.
Well the stat isn't really responsible for this, only partially for 2 reasons:
The lack of weapon requirement for hammerdins and sorcs means having a 125 mf weapon set switch is super easy for them, though that's the case with necros, wind druids, assassins etc.
Aside from that, the hammerdin and sorc are the most mobile classes and additionally the easiest to gear. They both do excellent with simple runewords and between Teleport for the sorc, Charge and Endurance aura for the pala, they are the classes that can most effectively kill any boss easiest.
if you removed the MF stat from D2 you would see the exact same thing, because the real reason is concentrating loot at bosses, and only giving 2 classes extremely good mobility options to get to those bosses while skipping everything else.
Nimbostratus
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Drop Rates
I'm pretty sure smartdot was talking about magic finding in general, not the stat. They really do need to get the focus off of endlessly running for items.
I'm pretty sure smartdot was talking about magic finding in general, not the stat. They really do need to get the focus off of endlessly running for items.
Re: Drop Rates
But I think if they do anything about the activity of magic finding, they need to do 2 things. 1) more evenly distribute the loot throughout the game instead of only having it at the bosses. 2) simply remove the ultra mobility skills or tone them down.
Well, I think that's one of the main draws for a lot of people for example, Hrus.
But I think if they do anything about the activity of magic finding, they need to do 2 things. 1) more evenly distribute the loot throughout the game instead of only having it at the bosses. 2) simply remove the ultra mobility skills or tone them down.
Re: Drop Rates
Hardcore gamers like to mf 165156154564 hours, casual gamers like to get items without spending that 16515615456 hours. U cant compare, it doesnt make sense. Increasing droprates and u lose hardcore gamers, decrease/maintain the current rate and u lose casual gamers.
People who like to mf will argue that it feels very good to have found "XXX" item after 51215641 runs, and that increasing the drop rate will screw up that good feeling. Why do they say that? Simple, because increasing the drop rate will mean that ur 20000 weeks of mf for a griff doesnt seem very accomplished anymore, when some noob gets it on his first day of play(Just watch as all these hardcore mfer disagree with me. Simple mental defense).
Personally, I'd like the chances to be increased, that is not to say make griffs drop every 10 mins. I dont like spending countless hours mfing for a digital pixel. The thing about D2 that keeps me and most others playing, is the fact that u can always get something better, thanks to the endless ability combinations. Why not focus on monsters with this type of flexibility? Why focus on items? Why not make bosses have the ability to be xtra strong/aura'ed/CE/LE/PI etc. Why not make "mirror" bosses? Bosses mirroring ur very own char, with the ability to spawn with xtra mods/features. Obviously such bosses would also drop nice items. This way it doesnt feel boring doing 56156100 runs because its different everytime, and the boss gets stronger as u get stronger.
Hardcore gamers like to mf 165156154564 hours, casual gamers like to get items without spending that 16515615456 hours. U cant compare, it doesnt make sense. Increasing droprates and u lose hardcore gamers, decrease/maintain the current rate and u lose casual gamers.
People who like to mf will argue that it feels very good to have found "XXX" item after 51215641 runs, and that increasing the drop rate will screw up that good feeling. Why do they say that? Simple, because increasing the drop rate will mean that ur 20000 weeks of mf for a griff doesnt seem very accomplished anymore, when some noob gets it on his first day of play(Just watch as all these hardcore mfer disagree with me. Simple mental defense).
Personally, I'd like the chances to be increased, that is not to say make griffs drop every 10 mins. I dont like spending countless hours mfing for a digital pixel. The thing about D2 that keeps me and most others playing, is the fact that u can always get something better, thanks to the endless ability combinations. Why not focus on monsters with this type of flexibility? Why focus on items? Why not make bosses have the ability to be xtra strong/aura'ed/CE/LE/PI etc. Why not make "mirror" bosses? Bosses mirroring ur very own char, with the ability to spawn with xtra mods/features. Obviously such bosses would also drop nice items. This way it doesnt feel boring doing 56156100 runs because its different everytime, and the boss gets stronger as u get stronger.