Drop Rates

[etslayer]

Re: Drop Rates

Now, we all know Diablo had a bad drop rate calulator, as in you could have 1000% MF and still not find anything.

Your problem is that you used 1000 MF and actually expected to find uniques. In D2, the optimum MF for finding uniques is 200-250. If you go much higher, you start getting higher ratios of blue items. There was nothing wrong with the MF system in D2... if anything items were too easy to find. The rarer an item is, the more exciting it is to find it.

 

[5zigen]

Re: Drop Rates

I think the drop rates on items are fine the way they are pretty much. The only exception's would be runes which could use a bump, and maybe up the drop rates on the first time you kill an act boss, especially the end boss.

I agree with this, with a couple exceptions.

Certain items were too rare simply because they could only be dropped by a certain enemy, or a couple enemies. Tyrael's might comes to mind, but it wasn't amazing enough to worry about, but IK armor also comes to mind, as does Griz shield/cadaceus and Mav daidem, deaths fathom, the archon staff etc.


I think how they should measure it is that during 1 playthrough of the game (all areas all difficulties) you should get a number of good items and 1 outsanding item. That's just my opinion though.

 

[Arkansaw]

Re: Drop Rates

You are meant to trade! Even the game developers acknowledge this (listen for their comments in the gameplay video).

Diablo's vibrant trading communities would be destroyed if drop rates/rarity rates were increased/decreased and this would make me berry sad indeed! :yes:

Nah, you are meant to frequent that item shop around the corner! If drop rates/rarity rates were increased/decreased, this would make the site owner berry sad indeed!

 

[Arkansaw]

Re: Drop Rates

It's not just the drop rates, the whole drop system should be refined for its known quirks. Remember the problem with set amulets? And how Sander's Paragorn is so difficult to get compared to the other pieces (not that it had great stats either)

 

[phool]

Re: Drop Rates

Your problem is that you used 1000 MF and actually expected to find uniques. In D2, the optimum MF for finding uniques is 200-250. If you go much higher, you start getting higher ratios of blue items.

What you're implying - that it's possible to have excessive mf resulting in a reduced chance of finding uniques - is incorrect. Obviously however the benefit of further mf has to be weighed against any negative impact on your killing speed, especially with mf's diminishing returns.

 

[Dorfoumous]

Re: Drop Rates

What you're implying - that it's possible to have excessive mf resulting in a reduced chance of finding uniques - is incorrect. Obviously however the benefit of further mf has to be weighed against any negative impact on your killing speed, especially with mf's diminishing returns.

Even this comment, implies, or suggests, that you are doing MF runs. While 1000 MF might be unrealistic due to the fact that all of your gear would suck, limiting your killing speed, would infact suggest MF running or boss killing.

Which was my point that I was alluding too, is that the drop system is screwed. You shouldnt have to kill the bosses a million times (exageration) to get something good, or rather that boss shouldn't be the only one with the best chance to get a unique.

Not to mention, it ruins the SP part of the game, because you know you will never see a ZOD or any uber- rare item. You just won't. If you do, you should go get some lottery tickets.

Plus the dupe issue, granted this will be diablo 3, but still, the rarer the item the more its been duped. Zods? Sojs? Torches? Annilies? I mean..come on, they are everywhere.

Someon mentioned trading for items, and the drop system allows you to trade.

Ok what about SP?

and The ecomony is duped runes right now? (at least I think), because they are too hard to find?

For once, I'd like to play the game and have an equal chance to get good gear without MFing the crap out of mephisto. Everyone always talks about how MFing ruins the game, and gets boring, but the fact of the matter is, you HAVE to MF if you want any half-way decent gear, unless you are really lucky..

Also, I don't like the fact that I can't get those items without trading for them, unless I MF for them which is really boring, and hard to do.

Again hindering the SP part of the game, and killing any chance of you enjoying your SP experience (at least for me)

 

[ColdAsIce]

Re: Drop Rates

No, your wrong. The D2 drop rates are perfect as they are and its how it should be. Runes were meant to be extremely hard to find because of what they can create. Enigma for example, not everyone was supposed to have one (Thanks dupers). If it wasnt for dupers, people would actually be willing to MF more, or even rune hunt and items would be worth more. People would see these items as something very very special knowing the runewords they can make.

If people desire these items so much, they work hard for it, either MF for godly items, or go in 8 player games and hit Kurast if you wish to find yourself a Cham rune. They were MEANT to be difficult to find, and i agree that the people who do not work hard at it, dont deserve it. Items like these SHOULD NOT just "Drop" consistently.. they should be limited and kept rarely found. But, yes, dupers have ruined this, so what are you people complaining about? I mean, dupers have already gave you the CHANCE to get an enigma, high runes, etc. Most people do not work hard anymore to find godlies because its easily made illegally.

I respect all legit players and their hard work and interest in finding a HR or godly items legitly. Remember that luck plays the role, so even I have not found a Crown of Ages yet in my entire D2 life, but I know one day I will and I will be VERY excited about it. It seems the economy is becoming lazy and doesnt feel like working hard for their items anymore. "Spoiled" is more what I call it. Almost like how most of our taxes in the USA go to the lazy, drugged out, "10-child a year" people who sit on their butt all day and collect your income because they dont FEEL like getting up off of their butt. (Ok, that wasnt called for, but you do see my picture).

Enjoy how the game was implemented, and if you do not like searching for legit HRs by working hard how it was meant to be, finding godlies, and knowing how to increase your chances of finding them then stop complaining. It may seem impossible, but its really not. I dunno.. I guess I'm just one of those die-hard legit people who enjoy playing the game. I've found Sur,Cham,Arkaines,Soj's,Maras,WF,GF,Levi,Ondals,Steelrends, and much more throughout my experience of just "playing" the game so I have no complains.

-Dave

 

[Dorfoumous]

Re: Drop Rates

I have to disagree. Very much so.

If it wasn't for the dupers, duping those Goldy Items, NO ONE, would survive in Hell alone.

Thus like I said, ruining the SP form of the game.

Thus forcing me to get online to dupers so I have a CHANCE to do something.

I prefer a system like Oblivion, or GW. To where you don't need those items to make it.

Sure you can be lucky to get good items, but you can play the game with a normal sword rather than a Goldy super slayer sword that gives you plus 5014 skills.

Increase the drop rates.

Whats the point of the item if only 1% of the popluation can get it? So that 1% will always be godly?

Doesn't make much sense to me.

Unless of course you want to waste hundreds of hours MFing the same boss to get that item. That isn't how the game is suppose to be played.

 

[ColdAsIce]

Re: Drop Rates

I have to disagree. Very much so.

If it wasn't for the dupers, duping those Goldy Items, NO ONE, would survive in Hell alone.
Thus like I said, ruining the SP form of the game.
Thus forcing me to get online to dupers so I have a CHANCE to do something.
I prefer a system like Oblivion, or GW. To where you don't need those items to make it.
Sure you can be lucky to get good items, but you can play the game with a normal sword rather than a Goldy super slayer sword that gives you plus 5014 skills.
Increase the drop rates.
Whats the point of the item if only 1% of the popluation can get it? So that 1% will always be godly?
Doesn't make much sense to me.
Unless of course you want to waste hundreds of hours MFing the same boss to get that item. That isn't how the game is suppose to be played.

You still do not get what I am trying to say. Every ladder/season I play I always make a MF character, sorceress rather. Ive played for THREE weeks this ladder, ran Meph + Andy, and I've found:

Shako, HoZ, Highlords, Eth 47% Travs, Skullders, 2 x Soj, BK Ring,Magefist, Frostburn, Lightsabre, 3 x Titans, 2 x Bartucs, Lycanders Aim, Reapers Toll, Hand of King Leoric, Cats Eye, Leviathan, Gul from Flayer Dungeon area hell, Dracs and..

About 40-50 (all together uniques,sets,rares) other "Elite-medium-exceptional" items I stashed/kept in mules for later USE that could EASILY get my by in a hell difficulty with team work, or even solo. I know you exaggerated with the normal sword thing, but seriously, this was only in 3 WEEKS playing a couple hours a day. Now, since I have all of these really good items, and decent elite items, I can BUILD my other characters.

You see, theres a way to become STRONG/ELITE quick, and then guess what? You got yourself a good setup for your desired characters who can become strong, and fight in areas your MF sorc wouldnt stand a chance.

This is how you do it, and apparently from what I just said/experienced, I dont see it being that hard. Do you? The hard way is making a weak character as your first char.. why? Its gonna take you 3 times longer than it took me to find good items.

1% Being godly? Are you kidding? Most people end up finding GODLY drops if you do what I just did, and for me finding a HoZ/Shako/SoJ thats pretty damn good for 3 weeks. You tell me.. I seriously dont think its 100% luck, I see it as effort. The funny thing is, before finding skullder/shako I only had about 80% MF from crappy blue/rare items. I start from scratch, and make my character successful legitly.. and you know what? Its not that hard.

 

[AgentMarth]

Re: Drop Rates

The way I look at it is: If an item is in the game, I want to be able to get it.

I, like many others, have spent countless hour killing countless monsters, and the only HR's I have even found are 2 Vex's, and 1 Ber rune. Now while the Ber made its way into a nice CoH (Which is not wasted on HC NL, thank you pointless reset), I would have never had an Enigma if I waited for a legit Jah to drop. That Beast I got? Never would have had. The Enigma's? Nope. And anything else that I used that had a HR. Say what you want about being overpower (some people DO like that, and lol at Wind) but the point is I play the game to have fun, not to MF/Forge rush for an insane amount of hours to cube a HR. While some may enjoy that, I certainly do not.

I want to be able to obtain and item that is in the game if I do so desire, and knowing I have a better chance of winning the lottery then finding a Zod blows. Now I am not saying that they should drop like hotcakes, but there should be a way of obtaining them with a bit of effort. Something like a mixture of Den/Tower/Trist/Ancients where a hard boss spawns (Ancients) and you have to kill it for the chance of a good Rune (Trist), but you have to clear out entirely (Den) all like 5 levels (Tower) of an area and are unable to TP back to town the whole time (Trist) so that you have to tough it out, and can't just pass by everything.

It would take effort, but would be doable and not take forever. Hell, even if it took like an hour, if the payoff was worth it, I would do it.

They shoulda just made Hellforge drop from Pul-Jah. That way you can't get every rune, but can still cube one up if needed.

I hope it stays similar to the way it it now, as I love the item system in D2. But they shouldn't make it broken on certain things like they did, mainly Runes.

 

[lionheart]

Re: Drop Rates

I think the drop rates should be better. I dont want to find everything right away, but i dont want to get frustrated either, kinda ruins the fun

 

[Sessily]

Re: Drop Rates

Drop rates for most anything are abysmal is d2. It is fun but I agree that if an item is there it should not be ridiculous to be able to find it. If you want to see mods that improve on this system look at eastern sun or median. The good items don't rain from the sky but they ARE possible to get! There is a happy medium there.

You are meant to trade! Even the game developers acknowledge this (listen for their comments in the gameplay video).

Diablo's vibrant trading communities would be destroyed if drop rates/rarity rates were increased/decreased and this would make me berry sad indeed! :yes:

And what about SP? Are we doomed to never have good items because we can't trade with dupers? I'll take my legit items over your economy filled with ridiculously duped runes & items, thankyou. Seriously, have any of you tried to find a rune like Vex+ on your own? It's impossible. If you believe even 1% of your Engimas/Infinities/etc are filled with legit runes you are dreaming!

Just look at this very forum's SP community. There are VERY precious few that have HRs and the only way they got them was using (abusing, maybe ) a bug with Lower Kurast's super-chest drops. That is the only way you can get HRs in a semi-reasonable time. Still, it's 19K runs on average for one Ber. And that is impossible on Bnet because it has to be done on /p7-8 & the maps should be persistent to make it more efficient. And even after all that VERY few people on the SPF have these high runes, and definitely there are still no BotD, Last Wishes, and maybe 2-3 Enigmas etc. THAT is how it should be on Bnet, but I hope the drop mechanics are much different in D3 so duping isn't necessary to get the best items.

Bottom line : I think Bnet'ers are spoiled because they can pretty much get anything (duped) if they really want it. If it was actually as hard to get as it should be I'm sure they would be singing a different tune!

 

[ColdAsIce]

Re: Drop Rates

I found my HRS in Lower,Middle, and Upper Kurast and I never used a bug. Can you please explain this bug to me I've never heard it and I doubt theres a "Treasure bug in Kurast" everyone has known 4-5 years now Kurast is one of the best places to find rare runes and I dont think its a bug..

 

[Nimbostratus]

Re: Drop Rates

They really do need to give players a realistic chance of finding some of these things. However, the best items shouldn't be too far ahead of the "regular" stuff. High power + low drop rate = Huge incentive for duping + potential for lots of legit players getting screwed over. If people can actually FIND some of these things, you have less impact from duping, and less reason for people even look for dupe methods to begin with.

On another note, perhaps the rarest items shouldn't be the godliest. Instead, give the super rare items things that are neat to play with but not godly. For example, rather than the rarest barb helm giving something like 20% DR, 40 resist all, etc. etc., give it instead something like +15 Hurricane, +15 Tornado, +5 Whirlwind. Things like this would be great for endgame. Rather than gathering stuff that merely increases the power of your characters, you can get stuff that increases the fun of your characters.

 

[Sessily]

Re: Drop Rates

I found my HRS in Lower,Middle, and Upper Kurast and I never used a bug. Can you please explain this bug to me I've never heard it and I doubt theres a "Treasure bug in Kurast" everyone has known 4-5 years now Kurast is one of the best places to find rare runes and I dont think its a bug..

Oh yeah? What runes did you find?

 

[ColdAsIce]

Re: Drop Rates

Oh yeah? What runes did you find?

2 Seasons ago me and 4-5 friends would run entire kurast grounds. I personally have found Sur, Cham and Gul there. I believe Sur was from a chest right in Kurast and Cham was in a temple in kurast. Altogether, I have seen with my friends who ran Jah, Zod, and Ists drop throughout runs. It would take along time though, but for some reason that place had the best luck.. We had to open all baskets/chests/stashs/etc.

I can remember many runes dropping from chests/stashs. We would also find high uniques and jewels there too.

Other places we ran for High runes were in the flayer dungeon, Abbadon pit levels in act 5, frozen river, city of the damned, tal rasha tombs, and arcane sanctuary. From my memory I've seen an Ohm drop in Arcane.

Can you explain this kurast bug? I'm pretty sure my rune finds from kurast had nothing to do with a bug.

 

[Grunthex]

Re: Drop Rates

If it wasn't for the dupers, duping those Goldy Items, NO ONE, would survive in Hell alone.

Thus like I said, ruining the SP form of the game.

Thus forcing me to get online to dupers so I have a CHANCE to do something.

Sorry, I had to take issue with the above. Swing by the single-player forum sometime. You'll find dozens of examples of people who can not only clear Hell alone without those duped items, they do it without twinking at all. Hardcore even. The real crazy ones only run through each area ONCE, no repeating anything to find items period.

Those duped godly items were never necessary for anything. They're needed by those who want everything easy, and think any challenge is too much.

 

[Sessily]

Re: Drop Rates

2 Seasons ago me and 4-5 friends would run entire kurast grounds. I personally have found Sur, Cham and Gul there. I believe Sur was from a chest right in Kurast and Cham was in a temple in kurast. Altogether, I have seen with my friends who ran Jah, Zod, and Ists drop throughout runs. It would take along time though, but for some reason that place had the best luck.. We had to open all baskets/chests/stashs/etc.

Well that's interesting because Jah & Cham can only drop from chests/poppables in Act4 onward, and Zod only in Act5. So basically you're full of it and I bet you've never seen a high rune drop in your life

 

[5zigen]

Re: Drop Rates

I think the thing with rune drop rates is they were fine pre 1.10. Reason being because a Zod didn't mean the same thing.

Finding a Zod or Ber or Cham, or Jah didn't make your character instantly godlike. They were luxury items in the truest sense. Hardest to get ahold of but not necessarily number one for utility.

When 1.10 rolled around all of that changed and not only created a market for high end runes but enabled a way to dupe them.


My two "wants" for Diablo 3 drop system changes.

At the highest level of gameplay (hell difficulty) the highest level of gear should be the most likely thing to drop. Not venom ward.

Same goes for runes.

Sure it would require that runes be more balanced as with rune words, but that just goes with the territory imo.

I am very skeptical of people who claim to have gotten a zod, since the number of zods that have dropped post 1.10 (per realm) could probably be counted on two hands.

 

[ColdAsIce]

Re: Drop Rates

Well that's interesting because Jah & Cham can only drop from chests/poppables in Act4 onward, and Zod only in Act5. So basically you're full of it and I bet you've never seen a high rune drop in your life

In this case then maybe I am wrong about them coming from chests but I know I found "2" HRS from chests in Kurast and the higher ones dropping from monsters, but I am pretty sure those were it.

Oh is that so? Well in that case, what your saying is not true because I have found them in Kurast and I dont need to go any further. Zod can not only be found in Act 5, and Cham/Jah have been found in Act 3 because I witnessed it. IF you think I'm full of it so be it, I do not need to prove anything because most ignorant people like yourself have never had the opportunity to know whats its like to find a high rune.

From Urliks proven high rune guide:

Although more tests are required to prove it, the only area in the game that may have a higher rune drop average is Arcane's Sanctuary.
Unfortunately, only Uniques and Champions in this area can drop up to Zod. Ordinary monsters (including wraiths) can drop up to Cham.
All those Special Chests at the end of the false paths to the Summoner can only drop up to Lo.
The Summoner himself is the best single source for Gul thru Lo (not counting the 1st time you kill Andy). Lo is his top end as well.
But aside from this, there are two pesky problems with Arcane's, both of which hurt your clearing time.
1. The layout of Arcane's is frustrating to navigate -- there are just so many turns and narrow pathways… You will kill slower as a result.
2. When fighting wraiths, be certain that they are hovering over "ground" when you kill them.
If they die while hovering in space (or over lava in RoF), whatever they would have dropped is lost to the inky depths.

Another area that may be of interest is Sewers L2. This is a level 85 area and it consistently has three Special Chests on the menu!
With a teleporting character, you can reach it very fast and quickly kill any resistance in there.
Unfortunately, the Special Chests in there can only drop runes up to Ber. But I'm not complaining too loudly 'bout that.

Some other areas with potentially high averages:
Maggot Lair L1-L3
Great Marsh
Flayer Jungle
Durance 2
Wilderness areas of Act 5 (Bloody Foothills, Frigid Highlands, Arreat Plateau, and Frozen Tundra)

Oh now isnt that funny.. I just pretty much explained this is where I go to hunt in my previous post. You and your "Only Zod can drop in act 5 and Jah can pop in chests in act 4" can go shove it please unless you were specifically talking about objects only.

You shouldn't say people are full of it when you do not know their history in the game. I bet i've found more high runes than you ever will because unfortunately I've gotten lucky. Oh, and it seems you still havent explained your mythical unevident "Kurast Chest Bug". Go figure.