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Dragon Tail damage question

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Crudesash68, Mar 15, 2004.

  1. Crudesash68

    Crudesash68 IncGamers Member

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    Dragon Tail damage question

    Does anyone have a clear explanation of how the fire damage is doled out on this skill? I read through Wildjinn's excellent guide, and if I understood it correctly, the damage is a multiplier of the phys damage released?

    Any help here would be appreciated, thanks.

    Steve
     
  2. Uzziah

    Uzziah IncGamers Member

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    I hope this helps answer your question.
     
  3. Fafner

    Fafner IncGamers Member

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    This skill is sick, just sick...go try it, max TS and D-tail and I think you'll hit 30k damage with decent +skills and myrmidon greaves. I used my only Ko and Lem over the weekend to upgrade goreriders (lvl 72 req. :rant: ). I have a PS/TS/FoF/CoT/Dtail hybrid going on and she kicks major A. The only problem is there are no points for support skills left, can you say skill lvl 1 WB, SM, Fade, Bos...

    As for your question, I think Uzziah got you on the right foot. There is a kicking FAQ in the assassin FAQ...http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=127905

    I believe it has the formula.
     
  4. wildjinn

    wildjinn IncGamers Member

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    I'm glad you've been enjoying the guide. If you're interested in playing with some numbers after you read the kicking thread that's been mentioned already, I made an excel spreadsheet calculator of DTail damage--feel free to email me about it and i'll send one your way.

    j-kurtin(at)northwestern.edu
     
  5. Zarhrezz

    Zarhrezz IncGamers Member

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    Perhaps Jrichard can answer this one that I've been wondering about: How do Dragon Tail and Dragon Talon work with the bonus given to damage to undead by Sanctuary (Azurewrath)? 500+% ED on undead is rather nice if it's in the right "phase" of addition. Besides that, 250-500 cold and magic damage doesn't hurt either. Kicksin with Azure could do rather well at Ancient Tunnels running (only 1 non-undead monster down there).
     
  6. wildjinn

    wildjinn IncGamers Member

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    He has posted about where auras stack in the calculation. Let me go dig up the equation...i'll post it in a sec.

    edit: Aura_bonus is the modifier where the +500% would be added. Looks like it might be multiplied by DTail, since other auras are. If that's true, you could be doing nice additional fire damage to all enemies around an undead that you kick. These calculations assume that that assumption is true.

    MinDamage= (str + dex - 20) / 4 * (100 + skill_bonus) / 100 + BootMinDam * (100 + (str * StrBonus / 100) + skill_bonus + non_weapon ED + Aura_bonus) / 100

    MaxDamage=(str + dex - 20) / 3 * (100 + skill_bonus) / 100 + BootMaxDam * (100 + (str * StrBonus / 100) + skill_bonus + non_weapon ED + Aura_bonus) / 100

    Let's use these stats to get a DTail calculation:

    Strength: 450
    Dex : 150
    Boot Min Damage: 83
    Boot Max Damage: 149
    Skill_Bonus: 2100 (lvl31 TS)
    non_weapon ED: 20
    Aura_Bonus:0
    Dtail AoE Bonus:350 (lvl31 DTail)

    Min Damage: 24k
    Max Damage: 37k

    Now, with an Aura_Bonus of 500,

    Min Damage: 27k
    Max Damage: 41k

    I threw together a rudimentary excel spreadsheet that will give approximate (non-rounded) answers. If anyone knows excel well and remembers the expression to make numbers round mid-calculation, please let me know. :) And if you want it, just email me at j-kurtin(at)northwestern.edu

    edit2 @ Fafner: the 350% ED to demons would add in at the non_weapon ED, presumably. That's a good idea for boss running that I had forgotten about. I think I'll put a pair of LoH on my 'sin sometime with a Demonlimb on switch for the AR bonus that I was getting from enchant with Lavagout.

    I'm also sitting on this thread to see what jrichard has to say about it because all of this is stuff from his kicking writeups.
     
  7. Fafner

    Fafner IncGamers Member

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    I'll give something a try that gives a bonus dmg to undead and demons tonight. LoH for demons, I have that. For undead, I'll find something.
     
  8. Crudesash68

    Crudesash68 IncGamers Member

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    Thanks everybody! My brother-in-law is running a TS/DT Sin, and he was curious about how the damage worked.

    Wildjinn, the formula you want would start like this: =round(

    Let's say you wanted to round 27/5, to the nearest whole integer. The formula would look like this:

    =round(27/5,0)

    The 0 is what determines the level of rounding, so 0 will =5, 1 will equal 5.4, 2 will equal 5.40, etc.

    Steve
     
  9. Zarhrezz

    Zarhrezz IncGamers Member

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    Hmm...looks like Talon would benefit the most from Azure's aura then, seeing the relative skill bonus (150-ish for Talon, where Tail uses Tiger). And followup kicks with 250-500 magic + 250-500 cold at 2 frames per kick is rather powerful.
     
  10. wildjinn

    wildjinn IncGamers Member

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    I know of that one, but I thought that it didn't round during the calculations, just at the end. I'm looking for the operator that intermediately rounds. However, I'll check that one and might have to be rounding a ton of intermediate results. :)
     
  11. Crudesash68

    Crudesash68 IncGamers Member

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    Perhaps if you could show me the formula in question, without the round, we can decipher it. I don't know of the specific formula offhand, but perhaps the round function can do intermediate results by the parentheses placement.

    Steve

    If we use the formula in your above post, I believe the trick here is to place the round function inside the formula, as opposed to the beginning:

    =x-y*(ROUND(a/b,0)/z)

    Does that look right?
     
  12. strijdje

    strijdje IncGamers Member

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    well when i tested my version of the kicker i reached almost over 60k max with it... dont know exactlly how i did it but i'll look it up when i get home...
    the damage was just plain sick and everything was instant dead, anytihng that hadnt any fire resitance :rant:
     
  13. Zarhrezz

    Zarhrezz IncGamers Member

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    The formula's use rounding down in various places. I'd say just follow that for the most accurate results. Why use roundings that the game itself does not use?
     
  14. Fafner

    Fafner IncGamers Member

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    The test results are in. I used a LoH, and a 169% Gravepalm. It doesn't look like much damage at all is transferred in the kick. In the claws, yes. If you use dragon claw, then charge up + bonus is decent but not worth crowing about. I didn't try just releasing with a normal attack to see how much that would help as I'm sure my Dtail damage is higher anyway.

    I guess if there exists a boot with %damage to demons or undead that may be worth trying. Otherwise, forgeddabout it.
     
  15. jrichard

    jrichard IncGamers Member

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    *exits his recent lurking mode*

    Look at the formula again:

    MinDamage= (str + dex - 20) / 4 * (100 + skill_bonus) / 100 + BootMinDam * (100 + (str * StrBonus / 100) + skill_bonus + non_weapon ED + Aura_bonus) / 100

    MaxDamage=(str + dex - 20) / 3 * (100 + skill_bonus) / 100 + BootMaxDam * (100 + (str * StrBonus / 100) + skill_bonus + non_weapon ED + Aura_bonus) / 100

    Both non-weapon ED and bonuses from auras get the shaft in this formula. Using the idea of Azurewrath as an example, you find that just four levels of TS adds slightly more damage than the azurewrath. TS gets figured into both halves of both equations. So, an increase in TS's boost of 240% means more than adding 500% aura or non-weapon ED. That isn't taking into account the change in Dtail's bonus, just changing the value for TS. When the change to Dtail is also counted in, the aura boosted damage falls quite a bit short. Just in changing from a claw/claw setup to the azurewrath/shield setup, you'll lose those four levels or more generally (tuc/tuc or tuc/jade talon setup).

    Here's something i had posted over at the AB concerning Dtail and the might aura that could be helpful:

    Dtalon would gain a better benefit from the aura found on azurewrath as talon isn't multiplied by the result of the kick damage formula as Dtail is and very rarely does talon have the godly amounts of ED provided by TS which a Dtailer does, but a taloner suffers from the problem of being a single target attacker. Not what you're looking for if you want the char to clear large groups of monsters quickly.

    In the end for my own playing, i came to the conclusion that going after either non-weapon ED or aura bonuses as a means of increasing damage was not worth it if it mean sacrificing anything else on my setup, especially +skills or stats.

    Wildjinn, the kick damage equation doesn't actually round anywhere. It just flat out drops decimals. This is integer math. The function you are looking for is the INT() function. You will have to add it into the equation so that it doesn't change the order the operations are done in. Should go something like this (i'm doing this off of the top of my head, so it might have some errors):

    MinDamage= INT(INT((str + dex - 20) / 4) * (100 + skill_bonus) / 100) + BootMinDam * INT((100 + INT((str * StrBonus / 100)) + skill_bonus + non_weapon ED + Aura_bonus) / 100)

    jrichard

    *re-enters recent lurking mode* :)
     
  16. wildjinn

    wildjinn IncGamers Member

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    Ooh. thanks for the post and clarification.

    INT was the operator I was looking for--I remembered its existance from my random highschool Office class, although I was apparently looking for the wrong thing. You should come out of lurk mode more often, jrichard. :)
     

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