Double Swing Barb?

Calizzar

Diabloii.Net Member
Double Swing Barb?

How come there are no guides for this? Does anyone use it?

It seems like a solid way to go, considering with a point in frenzy and plus skills, you can land a frenzy, and then double swing at 5fpa.

How does souble swing work? with each hit every 5 frames, will the damage of both weapons and both mods add together?

I was thinking of it as a build.

20 double swing
20 sword mastery
20 bash
20 battle orders
1 in all prereqs and 1 pot wonders.

Using eBotD Collossus Blade and either eth GF or another runeword CB.

I'd be double swinging at 5 fpa after a hit with frenzy, and doind great damage.
 

Spankeh

Diabloii.Net Member
how is the damage hi?
Adding points doesnt even increase its damage

Best spent on increasing frenzy damage by maxing double swing, but never using double swing
 

Calizzar

Diabloii.Net Member
bash synergizes double swing.

double swing is faster. and depending on someone answering my question, double swing does more damage because the damage of both weapons are added in.
 

sir goatscelot

Diabloii.Net Member
Calizzar said:
How come there are no guides for this? Does anyone use it?

It seems like a solid way to go, considering with a point in frenzy and plus skills, you can land a frenzy, and then double swing at 5fpa.

How does souble swing work? with each hit every 5 frames, will the damage of both weapons and both mods add together?

I was thinking of it as a build.

20 double swing
20 sword mastery
20 bash
20 battle orders
1 in all prereqs and 1 pot wonders.

Using eBotD Collossus Blade and either eth GF or another runeword CB.

I'd be double swinging at 5 fpa after a hit with frenzy, and doind great damage.
All mods on equipment work with Ds and Frenzy. All dual weapon barbs use Ds, and some, as you have pointed out, use a single point in Frenzy for speed increase.

Overall, there's nothing wrong with the build you propose. However, let me propose another option:

Drop the swords in favour of axes..unless of course swords are all you have. Then try to obtain 2 Gimmershreds..use on weapon switch for iron maiden areas along with Dt..or phys immunes, use Ds. Main weapons can be anything you wish that's axe class.

Options are Death Cleavers, Razors Edge, or any useful/obtainable runewords.
Use equipment with the usual melee mod's ie) deadly strike, crushing blow, open wounds, slow, chance to cast, life/mana leech etc etc.

Try to use the following build: 20 axe mastery, throw mastery, battle orders, split the rest as you see fit between bash, Ds, Dt, and don't forget the 1 point wonders like increased speed, nat resist, battle command, and frenzy etc.

This build will take you anywhere in the game and is quite fun indeed..a rogue merc with faith is always a great but exspensive option if you choose it.

Good luck with either option!

P.S ..you could just use Gimmershreds alone with no weapon switch ;)
 

Calizzar

Diabloii.Net Member
well ya, axes are probably better, but i like swords more :smiley: .

so, double strike deals damage from both weapons in 1 hit, right? doesn;t that make it more damaging than, say, frenzy?
 

GreyGhost

Banned
No. Double swing gets a weak damage bonus. Frenzy calculates damage from both weapons and gets a bonus.

Double swing is just fast. Frenzy is better.
 

Calizzar

Diabloii.Net Member
so each frenzy attack does damage from both weapons in one hit? not one, then the other in successive swings?
 

sir goatscelot

Diabloii.Net Member
Calizzar said:
so each frenzy attack does damage from both weapons in one hit? not one, then the other in successive swings?
Well yes and no..each weapon that has its own specific weapon attributes, has to be swung and make contact to produce mods ie) ctc, leech etc. However, if you have say a beast weapon along with another weapon, the fana bonuses apply across the board, but the cb only applys to that weapon and does not apply that mod to the off weapon.

For example, Dual wielding Botdz and Beastz will allow all the dmg and speed bonuses from the fana aura, but will not check for cb on the botdz, only the beastz. Each individual weapon is checked to hit and dmg, and each will apply any mods it carries, but will not share them unless one of the weapons carries fana, might etc..call it an off weapon mod if you will.

Now as far as saying that frenzy is better than Ds, thats more than debatable and has been discussed. Personally, I prefer Ds, but I leave it to the individual to make the choice...and no I won't get in to a debate about it lol.

Now for guides, there is a guide for Ds on theamazonbasin.com, Spattens Ds guide in Barb forum, but Ash's Frenzy guide can be applied to Ds as well.
 

Wacken

Diabloii.Net Member
Well yes and no..each weapon that has its own specific weapon attributes, has to be swung and make contact to produce mods ie) ctc, leech etc. However, if you have say a beast weapon along with another weapon, the fana bonuses apply across the board, but the cb only applys to that weapon and does not apply that mod to the off weapon.

For example, Dual wielding Botdz and Beastz will allow all the dmg and speed bonuses from the fana aura, but will not check for cb on the botdz, only the beastz. Each individual weapon is checked to hit and dmg, and each will apply any mods it carries, but will not share them unless one of the weapons carries fana, might etc..call it an off weapon mod if you will.

Now as far as saying that frenzy is better than Ds, thats more than debatable and has been discussed. Personally, I prefer Ds, but I leave it to the individual to make the choice...and no I won't get in to a debate about it lol.

Now for guides, there is a guide for Ds on theamazonbasin.com, Spattens Ds guide in Barb forum, but Ash's Frenzy guide can be applied to Ds as well.
This is interesting and i want to know if there is anything i am missing.

-DS is faster, but both skills max out at 5fps. If you have Beast and some IAS, you will reach 5fps with frenzy (even before charging) and the speed difference is void.

-DS costs no mana and thus can be used against mana burners.

-Frenzy does more damage and has better attack rating.

Is there anything else to it ?



 

ayaueto

Diabloii.Net Member
oh ya i've tried both builds, and as for my play style/taste, i have
chosen the double swing build for these reasons:

1. Frenzy initial swings are really slow compare to double swing.
2. Frenzy needs a few hits landed to get yourself fully charged.
3. Frenzy got 6 seconds to hit things to keep that charge alive
the implication here is that you will really needed to go "frenzy"
because you just can't stop and navigate around, you will always
have to think about keeping that charge alive, hence go "frenzy"
finding monsters to hit/kill.
4. The fully frenzied walk/run speed is amazing, personally i can't control
my character the way i would liked with it charged up fully.
5. Frenzy costs mana, Double swing you almost won't need any.

considering all that above, what double swing give up is a i dunno %
of damage compare to frenzy. And I used 2x about 400ed ebotdz?
more than make up for it if you ask me. I do about 2.2K-6.5K dmg
per swing, per weapon, showed on the lying character screen.

As for attack rating, yeah you will have to work on loading it up anywhere
you can do get yourself about 75% or above chance to hit monsters.
Thats the 2 disadvantages of Double swing compare to frenzy if you
ask honestly how i feel about the two with my personal experience.

Consider what your play style is like, if you only worry about playing
the game in a hurry and not worry about checking out on drops, type
a few messages, navigate around where you will be going then,
otherwise, you know what to choose ;)
 

Wacken

Diabloii.Net Member
I am just calculating things like BOTD + BEAST vs BOTD+BOTD

I have another (noob) question, if i have beast and i have +8 to all skills, that does not apply to the fana aura does it?

I will soon post it all here. First i have to go to the shop before it closes.
 

Wacken

Diabloii.Net Member
I have found the answer myself, it remains lvl9 :)
Ok, the calculations, lets start stating some facts and assumptions:

  • 8 skills, +10 combat from equipment (torch, arreats,highlords,COH/Eni)
  • 20 IAS (highlords, will be using draculs so no ias from gloves)
  • 265%ed on beastBA. -> 47.5*3.65= 173 avdmg
  • 375%ed on eth botdBA. -> 47.5*4.75*1.5= 338 avdmg
  • frenzy30(235)20syn*(160)28mast(163)M.Merc(200)150str(150) = 908%ed
  • DS30(0)20syn(200)28mast(163)M.Merc(200)str(150) = 713%ed
  • Lvl9 fana = 169%ed

*It is possible to put more points into frenzy synergy, thus benefitting frenzy damage. For comparison here, i assume the extra points to be used elsewhere and use the same amount of synergy for both skills.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frenzy, Beast+BOTD
Beast: 173+908%+169%= 2036
botd: 338+908%+169%= 3978
Average attack damage: 3007
speed: 6fpa uncharged - 5fpa slightly charged.
dmg/sec: 4.5 - 5 att -> 13532 - 15035
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frenzy, BOTD+BOTD
botd: 338+908% = 3407
speed: 7fpa uncharged - 5,5 charged.
dmg/sec: 3.5 - 4.5 att -> 11920 - 15330
------------------------------------------------------------------------
DS, Beast+BOTD
Beast: 173+713%+169%= 1699
botd: 338+713%+169%= 3319
Average attack damage: 2509
speed: 5fpa
dmg/sec: 5 att -> 12545
------------------------------------------------------------------------
DS, BOTD+BOTD
botd: 338+713%= 2748
speed: 5fpa
dmg/sec: 5att -> 13740
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conclusions:
BOTD+Beast does more damage in frenzy than 2xBOTD. (2xBOTD has better stats though)
Fanatacism speed is unneeded with double swing.
BOTD+Beast Frenzy does most damage alltogether.
2x BOTD double swing seems roughly equal to 2x BOTD Frenzy.
 

Qotsa

Diabloii.Net Member
I've got a frenzy barb and he's heaps fun. He wields Ebotdz + Beastz and his frenzy speed is incredible even before swinging. Then when he's charged, he's just as fast as ds. He's only marginally slower than ds to begin with.
 

Gabber_Roid

Diabloii.Net Member
I've got a 60ish Mace Frenzy and now I'm working on a tweaked Axe Ds in his teens.

From a purely gameplay/fun standpoint, I can already tell I'm gonna like Ds more... as it's been mentioned, it's just too much of a PITA controlling a Frenzied Barb, plus having to keep the charge up is a monumental PITA as well :(
 
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