Double Dream Discussion

[wcwalberg]

Double Dream Discussion

Alright, this thread is meant for the discussion of a couple topics in regards to the double dream enchantress build of the sorceress. First of all, I am currently building one of my own, and am using the following guide as a reference:

http://forums.diabloii.net/archive/index.php/t-315277.html

I'm looking to begin a skill discussion. In the guide two builds are proposed, which are as follows. But first, there are a few skills that both builds max.

Both Builds Allocate...

20 Points into Frozen Armor
20 Points into Lightning Mastery
20 Points into Enchant
01 Point into Static Field

Build 1 Allocates...

20 points into Thunderstorm
20 points into Telekenesis
And all following points into Energy Shield

Build 2 Allocates...

20 points into Fire Mastery
20 points into Warmth
And all following points into Thunderstorm

Now, I propose a third build that is structured differently. Its skills would look like this:

20 points into Lightning Mastery
20 points into Warmth
20 points into Energy Shield
20 points into Enchant
20 points into Telekenesis

My proposal is, what I see as, a balance of the two builds. Build 1 is designed defensively, and build 2 is intended to be more offensive. While the author of the guide, z3phrn, suggests build 2, it would seem to me that the synergy that exists between Enchant and Warmth and Energy Shield and Warmth should be taken advantage of. By capitalizing upon these synergies, the build works more like a "well-oiled machine". It basically comes down to 2 things.

Energy Shield vs. Frozen Armor
I have little faith in defense truly being able to thwart much of anything. Unless defense is able to rise into greater than 20,000 ,and I could be wrong on this, I feel that it will not prove to be highly effective. At the same time, however, defense should not be neglected. It does not seem apropriate to me to max the armor, rather, put a single point into it, and allow for +skills items to boost it. Energy Shield seems to be a much more solid investment.

Build 1 vs. Build 2 vs. Proposal

While I feel that I fairly clearly outlined my reasoning for leaning towards my proposal, I would like to use this spot to propose something for discussion. First, is Demon Limb viable, and why? One question that I have is whether or not Fire Mastery has an effect on Demon Limb's Enchant.

In case it was not clear, I would like for this thread to be used as a discussion place in regards to the skill allocation for the double dream sorceress. But if you got anything else to say about the build, I'd love to here it! Thanks for taking the time to read my thread.

 

[Fongalv]

heh...isnt this similiar to something ive posted a few threads down...

have already started building but really a pain in the @ss to lvl since she aint got much killing power frm 1-65...

 

[wcwalberg]

Yea, I'm working on leveling mine up. I still need to get all the gear though. I wanted to get all the gear and get everything all figured out before I invested anything too heavily and whatnot. Anyways, thanks for your input on the Double Dream sorc. I know it's gonna be hard to get it up there, but once she is, oh man. That'll be sweet. I was hoping more people would respond... Oh! I know what will attract more people!

*offers a free doughnut to anyone who posts*

*hands a free doughnut to Fongalv*

By the way Fongalv, I read your thread. I didn't see that we had the same topic up, but I do think that yours is on the second page now, but I could be wrong. I did notice that, unlike z3phrn, you went base vit, max mana. Would you explain why to me? I mean...probably because of ES, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Also I have a few questions for everyone. Does the Warmth synergy have any effect on an enchant casted via the Demon Limb (Unique Tyrant Club...I think...whatever it is with the lvl 21 Enchant Charges) and no one ever told me whether or not Fire Mastery has an effect either. My last question is whether or not ES can be effective without having a massive mana pool. How much does one need in order to prove ES' effectiveness? Along those same lines, could GBane replace Enigma in the build? Enigma's str bonus probably tips the scales in its favor. Let me know, thanks!

 

[FrozenHavoc]

I think the reason for no Demon Limb is something about the Demon Limb not being affected by Fire Mastery, therefore only boosting your AR, not so much your damage (which the sorc move Enchant does, with the aid of Mastery)....

Just my 2 cents, hope it helps

 

[Aeonios]

Couple things about DD sorcs.
1:You will mostly suck at pvp.
2:You will mostly suck at pvm.

DD sorcs, with a passion blade, can get about 9k AR and decent (although painfully slow) zeal. Capable of killing most chars in one hit. Problem is, you get about 1k HP and similarly die in one hit to everything. Also, if you take a hit and don't die, your mana goes away and you're stuck without tele. Not a good situation. Mine did "ok" in duels (used ik gloves/boots/belt, a super upped viper, 2x raven frosts, crappy seraph's, monarch dream and phase passion. Less than optimal) but died way too easily if I happened to miss.

A very popular and overdone thing to do is to get a beast and turn your sorc into a bear. This doesn't actually improve your damage, but does give you more AR and life. However you lose tele and therefore are about 75% useless in a duel. Your AR will still suck and you'll get killed by anything you can catch anyway.

The advantage to this sorc is that it can do 40-60k melee dmg, and if you use a 5 shael phase blade, you can attack quite fast as a bear, leveling act bosses in about 0 seconds. If you got someone to help you make it to the act bosses, this is great. Otherwise you die to all the little minions along the way, since you have no crowd control besides the confuse that dreams cast occasionally. However, with my dreamer pally, who uses a high lvl of conviction, my friend's bear sorc and I can take down act bosses and dclone in a rather tiny amount of time (Diablo drops in about 2-3 seconds and he attacks really slow right now).

My suggestion: If you really want a sorc instead of a pally (a well built dreamer pally can tank and shred in hell like nothing else) then I suggest you go the passion route with low str gear. In order to stand a chance against anything with high defense, simply get an act1 merc with some good gear to keep her alive. Her inner sight can bring an enemy's defense down to a point where you can actually hit them, and not a lot of people can take a 40k zeal hit. Also, zeal is a good way to deliver that dmg to bosses and such, but make sure you're getting 5 hits out of it.

BTW your third build would work the best imo, if you want to spend the time getting the sorc into mid-90s to collect all the skills for it. That's not even considering the little stuff like tele with all the prereqs.. You'd basically have to be lvl 99 to finish this build. Keep in mind I'd do eshield last since it's not as important as TK, and you should keep a 3-1 mana-life ratio if you want the greatest effectiveness out of it.

 

[White Dragon]

Hi
I'v recently made a DD Beast sorc(prebuff enchant(around lvl 35)switch to bear).
The skill setup i'v used:
Max Warmth
Max Enchant(+3fire eq on prebuff)
Max FireMastery
Max LightMastery

Eq setup:
Prebuff
3fire circ
3fire amu
3enchant orm
occu
the cheap 1skill rw shield
bk

then change into wherebear using beast(provides Lots of life/def, in my opinion a Must)

Duel/Pvm
dream
angelic
angelic/raven
coh
6shealed ba(to hit mfps)
drean
mage
verdungo
aldur boots

There where a few pro's
-Absolute fun to play
-Very easy 2-3k+ life
-nice def(4k+)
-in theorie Alot of damage(thx DD)

Well the problem is this in theorie i did !! 5k-35k but well that was hard to believe since it wasn't shown of in Pvp nor Pvm(this build was better Pvm then Pvp though)

Problems
-your slow as a bear
-i had LOTS of problems with Ar(although i used angelic+enchant i only hit 4k Ar witch give me about 70% chance to hit in act5)
-Res is a problem(atleast with my eq i had about 30all(except fire>75)

So well if you like to spend your ists on the items required to build this goodluck, it will defenatly bring alot of fun(Pvp, IF you hit you'll hit around 20k elemental(infinity not calculated in))but it's not a great build and i quited after a few days of pvping

Note: This however Is great for boosting/Cowing etc, it Masive kills on lower difficulty's

Hope this give's you some more input on these kind of builds

 

[Gimmershred]

Hi,

i made the following dreamsorc:

Equip:
Helm: Dream helm
Shield: Dream towershield
Armor: Twitchtroe socketed with 15 ias jewel
Weapon: Passion pb
Gloves: crafted cb gloves with 20 ias
Belt: Arachnid
Amu: Metalgrid 35 res
Rings: Ravenfrosts
Boots: Waterwalk

Switch: lidless+cta
Charms: anni, around 5 ight gc's, rest fhr/ar/life charms ( used 10 lightskillers first but this seemed to work out better)


I had lvl 3 zeal wich means 4 hits instead of 5 (+1 anni +1 arachnids)
I had around 8-9k ar after using enchant
i had 75% block
i had around 65-70% es

Base str around 80
Base dex around 160

My life and mana after bo would both be only around 1k.
This build didnt work quite well. One thing i am pretty sure off is not to make her block. The blockrecovery is way too slow, and gets annoying real fast.
I tested with 65% oias and it didnt seem to improve my zealspeed, bit strange...


Must haves in pvp in my opinion:

Angelics amu+rings for decent ar after enchant:
37 fc for 10 frame tele or 20fc for 11 frame tele
+3 all skills minimum for lvl 4 zeal=5 hits
Enough mana/life (i think i had around 1k each after bo and i died real fast)

Thats were you come into the problem area.
You can either make a good es sorc with a big manapool who cant hit any1 in pvp or you can make a good ar sorc wich dies way too fast.

I think the best option for this sorc might be lvl 40 energyshield and the following gear:

Passion
2x Soj
Magefists
Gladiators bane
Hsarus belts+boots
Metalgrid with good ar on it

Gladiators would be the only item with high str req, but you need cbf and DR MDR. Iron pelt chammed is also a possability.

An other option might be angelic rings+amu , frostburn, arachnid, silkweave.

you will have decent ar, decent manapool, lvl 40 es (use memory prebuff), cbf, 11frame tele, good DR,MDR.

Keep your merc as low level as possible. Hire a blessed aim merc with insight. If he dies in a duel and he's low lvl it only costs around 5000 to revive him.

If your pvm and use itd then a prayer merc with insight might be nice for very fast life regen.

 

[Fongalv]

hi sorry for the late reply...

havent been arnd the last few days...

did i choose base vit? me bad...i actually meant low vit...so prolly abt base 100 or so...

the reason i chose base/low vit is cuz i got a couple of light gcs +30+ life and hopefullt would be able to hit 2k w/o bo or werebear...

juz curious does glads bane really help with the dr? i juz found an ammy with 30 resists and damage reduced by 23 so if used together with glads would take away abt 40+ damage?


hmm...i was hoping for the beast to boost ar > 5k with enchant...

as for pvp, which was initially what i had in mind, i was considering zapping kill all who have < maxed resists and prolly attacking with beast...

juz cruious if an eschutas would help if its socketed with a 5/5 lightning facet...would it even touch those with high resists?

as for weapon, im not so sure if i wanna go for pasion as from previous melee enchantress experience, its still very very slow...


and yes dreamadins do rock...i was testing with a fanatic zealot friend using ebotdz, fort, phonix, dream helm with 11k max zeal damage on hell baal and guess what...i kill em much faster...lol...

 

[Aeonios]

facets are useless for prebuff. Once you switch weps, the facet bonus goes away. You'll notice you do a lot more dmg with an eschuta's than with your main wep, since you'll have more lit mastry and such, but hitting stuff with an orb isn't the best choice imo ;P.

Also, you all stated pretty much what I said. You'll have crappy AR AND crappy life (since good AR is 15k+, although my sorc was able to get 15k with angelics). You tele too slow to catch other sorcs, have terrible fhr and blocking, and trash resists on top of that. That's why a dreamadin is far better in all aspects. Sorcs simply aren't built for melee combat, but pallies are experts at it.

 

[Fongalv]

yea i know how facets work...

was juz planning to use em when i need to tele catch someone and prolly shock them in the process to kill them...

as for melee, i dont think i got much chance to hit...even if i got good ar, il prolly be killed b4 i can land 1 hit, so my plan is to keep away...

 

[Gimmershred]

You could use a shaeled wizspike for casters. Nice mana res cast rate and when you shael it it isnt very hard to get 10fpa.

How the hell you gonna hit 2k life without bo or bear with 100 points in vita and only some life on lightning gc's?

5k ar is way too low for pvp. Or are you only gonna try catch casters? wich is quite hard since they tele faster and have long range attacks. you really should aim for angelics combo.

Passion is still faster then the maximum 10 fpa of all other attacks. The best option is off course bear and switch to a 5shael eth phaseblade for 5 fpa. But its kinda boring to play.

If you gonna use that 21dr amu then maybe a good option is vipermagi armor with 13 MDR. At least your cast rate will be a bit better that way.

If you are not using gladiators bane then your str req. will be low. Don't go for marrowwalks then but use silkweaves.

I saw that you werent be able to kill many people with your dreamadin, meleesorc will be even worse. If you want a killer char look for another build. If you want a fun and original char then go on with this 1

By the way i dont think when using the berserk from passion that the lighning damage is converted to magic damage, only the physical damage is. Does any1 know if this is true or not?

 

[Norcim105]

I have made a dual dream sorc following the guide above and she kicks a$$. I do 60k dmg at 5 fps with 86 fhr and 4.3 k life with bo and morph. I went with the Enchant, Fire mastery, Shiver armor and warmth. I wouldn't recommend an ES build on a melee character because mana burn is killer to it. I would rather have about 10k def and lots of life. Anyways thats just my 2 cents.