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don't understand maxing telekeneis - someone explain please? :-)

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by BellaHella, Mar 16, 2004.

  1. BellaHella

    BellaHella IncGamers Member

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    don't understand maxing telekeneis - someone explain please? :)

    i just don't get it. i've seen people talking about maxing telekenisis. why would you do this? i see that energy shield gets a bonus from tele; how does that work? and what character types would you use this technique for? sorry to be so dense; i just don't understand. :scratch:
     
  2. memememe173

    memememe173 IncGamers Member

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    I don't know the actual numbers, but the points in telekenisis reduce the amount of mana Energy Shield takes, whe it absorbs damage
     
  3. sawse

    sawse IncGamers Member

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    Increasing tk rduces the ammount of mana needed to absorb dammage. Opinions on whether to use energy shield vary considerably. Some swear by it and call it a life saver. Others such as myself wouldn't use it if the skill points were free.

    The merits are obvious. Extra life. Some of the drawbacks are:

    mana burn is extra dangerous

    resists are treated as 0 for energy shield purposes

    large investment in skill points


    It's a matter of preference. There is no right answer on using / not using energy shield.
     
  4. ChimpFarmer

    ChimpFarmer IncGamers Member

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    Plus, telekenisis can knockback and stun enemies... good for your merc.
     
  5. Zarhrezz

    Zarhrezz IncGamers Member

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    Not really. Mana Burn in 1.10 translates to "get hit, lose all your mana". Period. Seriously, in Hell each and every mana burner with a physical attack will deal at least2500 mana. The fact that you lost some mana due to ES before this loss of mana occurs is totally irrelevant, in either case at the end of the hit, you'll be without mana.
     
  6. sawse

    sawse IncGamers Member

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    Some people (such as myself) play hardcore, where making it to hell is by no means a sure thing. I think "totally irrelevant" is way off. In norm/nm a decent mana pool can take a hit and let you teleport away. With energy shield you're more likely to have to start planning your new sorc.

    Btw, I love your avatar. I smile every time I see one of your posts :) That's such a great show.
     
  7. sawse

    sawse IncGamers Member

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    This effect works the same at level 1 and level 20.
     
  8. holabuster

    holabuster IncGamers Member

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    I have a question. If energy shield acts like you have 0 resist, then could you scrap resist gear for gear geared towards more killing power and mf? you could have -100% resists but kick *** killing speed and not feel any negative effect with energy shield on.

    Is this true?
     
  9. sawse

    sawse IncGamers Member

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    Once the shield goes down you're dead (and it will go down). Your energy shield will take very heavy hits and won't last all that long, even with a high mana pool and max warmth. The math on this has been done extensivly on one of the other forum sites by a genuine technical guru.
     
  10. FallNAngel

    FallNAngel IncGamers Member

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    Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think you're missing the point. Normally (think .09), every point of damage you took while energy shield was on meant you lost 2 points of mana. So if you had 2000 mana, taking 1,000 physical damage would drop your mana to 0.

    Now in 1.10, you can put points into tk to lower the amount of mana you lose when hit with ES on. So in the above example where you have 2,000 mana and taking 1,000 damage will empty your mana, imagine you now need 2,000 damage to empty your mana... how is that a bad thing? Mana Burn isn't any more dangerous when you have ES on either. If you have energy shield on... you lose all your mana. If you don't have energy shield on, you still lose all of your mana.

    Really the only thing to consider is if you have the skills for it or not and if it's worth it to you.
     
  11. IceFires

    IceFires IncGamers Member

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    On the other extreme of high energy/high vit using energy shield build is the max block sorc. They are somewhat better protected against mana burn creatures (75% chance to block).
     
  12. sawse

    sawse IncGamers Member

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    I hate to repeat myself, but it seems like you didn't read the whole thread.

    I'm well aware of the mechanics of the skill in 1.10, if you note my earlier posts I mention how tk reduces the impact on mana. A big weakness it has is vs elemental attacks. The fact that resists always = 0 means they can rip through your mana ball pretty fast.

    Also as I said already, in norm/nightmare 1 hit from a mana burn monster doen't always mean an empty mana ball normally for most sorcs. If you use es, then it does. In hardcore that's just one extra monster that has a great chance to kill you.

    And finally, a 3rd thing I said already. it's a matter of taste. I build my sorcs with base energy to maximize life. That right off the bat lessens the advantages of es FOR ME. I said I don't like the skill and gave reasons why. I also pointed out that some people swear by it. I'm not implying that they are stupid players by any means. We all have different priorities on what we want for our characters.

    My view is that it is more advantageous to go base energy, high vit/block and save your skill points for offensive skills. To be honest, it's kind of a mystery to me why people choose to invest all those points to pump energy/tk and possibly warmth when you can increase your firepower, focus on vitality and get the huge benefit of 75+% resists. That's just my preference when building a sorc.

    With that said, variety is the spice of life, and I think it's great that people realize their own unique visions of the character. The statistically maximized builds are not always the most fun to play,... not even close (for many people at least). My most fun build of 1.09 was the wind druid. Not exactly a powerhouse.
     
  13. sawse

    sawse IncGamers Member

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    The mana burners aren't the biggest deficiency of the skill imo, that honour would go to it's vulnerability to elemental attacks. I would go as far as to say in that situation it is a disadvantage to the degree that you would wish you hadn't cast it.

    Huge dex and a high blocking shield will of course reduce the number of hits from physical dammage mana burners. However, elemental attacks from mana burn uniques/minions carry the effect as well.

    My question to you would be how would you spend your stat points. If a major investment is being made in dex to max block, then what are you pumping vit/energy to? If your mana pool is smallish, is it really worth it to invest in energy shield?

    Sure, es is not a bad way to go vs regular physical attackers, but it's far from the all encompassing cure all some people make it out to be. I would argue that you get more safety out of a good second element to attack with. If you have to wait for your merc to kill a big pack immunes one by one, it's not very safe (or fun).

    One other thing I would like to pass on is that when I play hardcore I only play with my "clan" of primarily very experienced long time hc players. Most have been playing since diablo 1 was released in, what was that? 97 or 98 maybe? (I've been playing that long also). I have never ever seen one of them use energy shield in 1.10. Even the melee sorcs don't use it (and those crazy buggers play a lot of wierd builds like that).

    TO THE ORIGIONAL POSTER: I just noticed that we have all been ignoring part of your origional question. Sorry about that. We all got carried away with this little debate we've got going on. From what I can gather, probably the most common build that invests significantly in es/tk is a MFer that looks something like this:

    20 orb
    20 icebolt
    20 tk
    cold mastery, warmth, energy shield, static, teleport etc to taste.

    What some do is to pump teleport so the mana cost is almost nothing, so they can get away from mana burners. Another way to do this is to have a staff with teleport charges on weapon switch with the charges set to right click. The charges cost no mana so you can get away. I've tried that myself and it works very well. I just don't like using up my weapon switch that way (again, it's all what strikes your fancy).

    That's just an example of course. Any single element attack would work but using one that is very mana consumptive (think fireball or chain lightning) would be a bad fit. With good gear I wouldn't be at all suprised to see an effective 2 tree build also. Orb/firewall could spare the points to pump tk. The build wouldn't be finished till a fairly high level, but would be nice and versitile.
     
  14. AzulAzul

    AzulAzul IncGamers Member

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    well, telekineses works, but only in 2 values, 16, or 20.

    no points in telekinesis - when u are hit by a monster the damage is divided, u lost 2 points mana, and 1 point vita.

    16 points in telekinesis- when u are hit u lost 1 point mana and 1 point life.

    20 points in telekisesis - u are hit and u lost 0,75 of a point of mana and 1 point of vita.

    this is how it works,

    i never maximize my sorcs, i have 3, but i read a lot about that, and talk with another players, they say that works, and its usefull.

    so i decided to try on a new sorc, i keep 16 points till baal run normal, and after a few runs to try, i put all the 16 skills on telekinesis, i went run again and i felt a "cool" diference, it was more "strong". so i keep more 6 points and a runs later i put all the six points, and yes, i notice a big diference, its much more "strong" , and lost much less mana, of course u have to put some points on energie shield, put somo points f u have not extra skills, i think 7 or 8 points its ok, its around 60%.
    my mf only have 2 extra skills so i put some more, the other sorcs are full equieped , so no need to put skills extra on energie shield.


    my sorc have the stats :

    20 FO, 20 synergie of FO, 20 cold mastery, 20 telekinesis, 10 static, 7 energie shield, and 5 points into warmith, im lvl 90 now, almost 91.


    greetings to all
     
  15. DaemonX

    DaemonX IncGamers Member

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    Correct me if I am wrong then, but wouldn't any high mana pvp sorc want to have ES as an option - simply to stop the nasty -100% guaraneteed resistance that cold sorcs will now have on them regardless of difficulty?
     
  16. Zarhrezz

    Zarhrezz IncGamers Member

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    Thanks, I'd give you the addy for the site where I got that from (you can customize your own SP character there, it rox...if you'd see a rl pic of me, you'd also notice how damn close/recognizable it is ;) ).

    I can see your point as a HC player, I myself play exclusively SC (I play SP and the FE fix isn't out as downloadable patch...playing SP HC with melee chars is asking for a FE-bug kill and I don't care to waste my time on that). From experience with my ES sorc I know that in normal and nighmare Mana Burn isn't that bad...Mana Burn didn't bother me at all there since monsters couldn't take down ES anyway, even with Mana Burn. In Hell that changes drastically though, each and every Mana Burner with a physical attack will take all mana, instantly.
    With decent +skills and regen rate coupled with a sufficiently large mana pool, Teleporting should never be an issue though...I know my ES sorc regens enough mana per frame to teleport...the odds of not being able to react quickly enough are greater than the odds of not actually being able to teleport due to no mana.
     
  17. Zarhrezz

    Zarhrezz IncGamers Member

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    This is somewhat correct. Yes, elemental attackers will always hit you, but if mana burn is passed into the attack (not the if) it's at a really low damage value. My ES sorc has had volley-fire shootouts with unique mana burn packs skeleton mages more than once and there was no noticeble difference in mana loss compared to unique packs without mana burn. I believe the explanation lies in the fact that skeleton mages have no listed physical attack/damage, implying that mana burn will be based on 0 damage. I believe that goes for any elemental ranged attack made...no physical damage is done, thus no mana burn effect.
     
  18. sawse

    sawse IncGamers Member

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    I was mostly thinking of black souls when I said that. I hear they have a physical componant to their attack you may be right on the money there. I was under the impression fireballs etc would carry mana burn, but I'm not sure on that one, so I probably shouldn't have presented it as fact until I was.
     
  19. sawse

    sawse IncGamers Member

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    I am not the best guy to ask for pvp questions by any means(I barely ever do it), but that sounds like a worth while option. I'm not sure if it would be better than stacking resists or not though. Changing gear doesn't cost you any skill points, but es would make life easier I would guese. Your best bet is to post that question in the pvp forum.
     
  20. Zarhrezz

    Zarhrezz IncGamers Member

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    Gloams are somewhat different from 'normal' elemental attackers. Their mana drain isn't mana burn. I'm not sure on them, I'll be the first to admit that, but I've had my assassin stand in front of 2 boss packs and not take any damage...however, I did get mana drained, though not instantly which would be expected from regular mana burn.

    My Enchantress (who uses ES) just did Hell River of Flame and encountered a Mana Burn boss pack Death Knights...while they stood back and bombarded me with their elemental bolts I didn't get mana burned (just regular drain from ES). However when I teleported in and they started to hack with their swords, mana burn soon followed. Conclusion: elemental (ranged) attacks do not mana burn.

    As noted before, the mod "mana drain" found on some monsters works different from the unique mod mana burn. I don't recall any monsters with drain mana and an elemental ranged attacks other than Gloams...if anyone knows one, speak up =)
    Gloams are said to deal physical damage in their lightning bolts, but personally I believe that part is converted to lightning damage (I can go into detail if need be, but if there were a physical part, there would be no way Thundergod's could render one immune to Gloams).
     

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