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Does pierce affect Lightning fury?

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by Vilencia, Jan 31, 2004.

  1. Vilencia

    Vilencia IncGamers Member

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    Does pierce affect Lightning fury?

    Topic Im not sure if I should put a point into it, does it?
     
  2. Broncobiv2

    Broncobiv2 IncGamers Member

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    If you want to make a javazon with Lightning Fury as her main attack, get pierce as high as possible (Razortail would help with 33% pierce, but you'll probably want to use Thundergod's Vigor instead). Get enemies grouped as tightly as possible. With high pierce, the jav will hit the first monster, send off lightning bolts, pierce to the next monster, send off more lightning bolts hitting the same enemies, pierce to the third monster, etc. High pierce is critical for a LF javazon.
     
  3. slayer37

    slayer37 IncGamers Member

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    LF + pierce is the only way to go! I'd recommend more points in pierce if you don't wear razortail.
     
  4. slam

    slam IncGamers Member

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    is it true that you can wear razortail, and max pierce (total > 100%) and it effects the chance of an attack piercing subsequent times?
     
  5. Shanksie1337

    Shanksie1337 IncGamers Member

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    with +skills gear, my pierce is ~70 and this is fine. There may be some benefit getting it higher, but it's no way near vital. My lvl 89 Furyzon kills any non LI asap (wearing Tgods) and the points saved (by not aiming for 100 pierce) are usefull to get more damage on your switch attack - in my case PJ.

    I am sure more peirce is better than less peirce, but there is always the opportunity cost for these things and if i can cope with ~70 on my first ever zon, i'd guess you could too :D

    like most skills bar LF in the zon build, go steady adding points as when +skills are factored in an extra skill point spent my only increase peirce (or any skill, by 1 or 2).

    Also ppl do say that extra peirce is better for the chance to peirce the 2nd/3rd/4th etc enemy, but again it isn't exactly a skillfull build and a quick spam of LF kills all, be it 3 shots or 5.

    So in case you hadn't guessed, my advise is ~70 including +skills and spend points elsewhere - ie Valk / secondary kill. LF is deadly with 70 peirce, and tho it may be deadlier at 100, they are just as dead after 3 LF's.

    edit - spelt "pierce" about 8 different ways in that, cba editing tho
     
  6. Jerkazoid

    Jerkazoid IncGamers Member

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    its a very heated debate.
    though the Tgods will help make u Light immune, and give you a nice +3, the pierce factor is what heavily increases (exponentially) the initial hits of large groups..

    with the 100% pierce its common to watch atleast 1/2 of a large group instantly die within the 1st throw, the dmg output can be tremendous as each pierce is +100% of your outpu. Compared to 70% pierce,,the dmg fall off becomes greater as the chance to realese a more spreads of bolts, fails.


    with the tgods u can add maybe a good 15-20% to ur dmg but it will mean u just wont (easily) reach 100% pierce,,and that will either cost skill points,, or mean you wont get that amazing huge pack killer.. ofcrouse, once u get the pack down to about 4 or five guys (spread out).. ANY pierce is practically worthless.,,ofcourse LF becomes not-so-great anyway at that point (imo)

    generally speaking i would go with the high pierce bc thats where LF is REALLY going to help you..

    however since 1.10,, i spent so much time cleaning up the packs of 5 to 6 i found that i could just go with the def of the tgods and just saying F*** LF and go with CS and the LS.

    you would just have to build to very identical builds and thoroughly test them to come to any good conclusion about how they perform PVM

    *they probably perform the same provided u adjust to the style, its just ur preferance
     
  7. Broncobiv2

    Broncobiv2 IncGamers Member

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    A thrown javelin can pierce up to 5 times. The formula is simple.

    (% chance to pierce)^number of monsters pierced

    So, with no piercing equipment, at level 10 Pierce you have a 71% chance to pierce.

    Code:
    Chance to pierce first target:   (.71)^1 or (.71) = 71%
    Chance to pierce second target:  (.71)^2 or (.71*.71) = 50%
    Chance to pierce third target:   (.71)^3 or (.71*.71*.71) = 36%
    Chance to pierce fourth target:  (.71)^4 or (.71*.71*.71*.71) = 25%
    Chance to pierce fifth target:   (.71)^5 or (.71*.71*.71*.71*.71) = 18%
    Using the same formula, here are a few more pierce levels for quick reference.

    Code:
    First target:     80%        85%        95%        98%
    Second target:    64%        72%        90%        96%
    Third target:     51%        61%        85%        94%
    Fourth target:    40%        52%        81%        92%
    Fifth target:     32%        44%        77%        90%
    The higher levels of pierce may not seem to matter much, because they only increase piercing by one or two percent. But when you look how those few percent affect the targets past the first one, it can be a very large improvement. At level 25, Pierce has a chance of 90%. So you're only going to be able to get your pierce above about 90% by using piercing items, such as Razortail. Razortail (33%) and a level 8 pierce (65%) = 98%. Or Razor and lvl 9 Pierce (69%) = 102%.
     
  8. Jerkazoid

    Jerkazoid IncGamers Member

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    AFAIK the cap of 5 targets was removed
     
  9. Broncobiv2

    Broncobiv2 IncGamers Member

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    So with 100% pierce (because I think the 95% pierce cap was also a myth), your arrow will go through unlimited enemies?
     
  10. Jerkazoid

    Jerkazoid IncGamers Member

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    until the projectile has reached its limit of distance.. (wich depends on what it is... multi, guided, LF, plague jav, FA etc)

    yes.. there is no factual 95% pierce cap,,, and this was debated alot here

    the 95% "to-hit" cap however, might, or might not, (never really got a great answer to these queries) have an effect, but only on skills that require AR to hit... skills that are not really totally AR dependant ("always hit" skills), IE, FA, LF or .09GA etc... seem to always pierce.. ...even if succesfully blocked.
     
  11. Ifrit18

    Ifrit18 Banned

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    I have my peirce at 65% right now and will get it up to 70%. Its what makes LF so good :).
     
  12. Shanksie1337

    Shanksie1337 IncGamers Member

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    the stats are all well and good, but ateotd, as some1 has already pointed out - it's personal preference, my zon happily slaughters Hell cows in mf gear (dunno exact stats of her in mf gear - but it's much less than in full levelling gear).

    Again it's a balance between either killing 95% of packs in 1 LF with max peirce, or throwing an extra LF or 2, and having extra skill points to use elsewhere.
     
  13. sir_bazz

    sir_bazz IncGamers Member

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    In the end your gonna want load on up on MF. So razortail comes off and goldwrap goes on.

    In other words your gonna sacrifice some killing speed for more MF.
    Even when levelling within a group you'll find that 70% pierce is good enough to be a valuable contributor in Baal runs.

    bazz.
     
  14. Shanksie1337

    Shanksie1337 IncGamers Member

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    lol totally agree, why couldn't i have said it like that :S
     
  15. kornnstein

    kornnstein IncGamers Member

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    hi, im starting a LF/PJ javazon. ive decided to use thundergod so i miss the %pierce from razor. my question is:

    if i want to save some skill points from pierce hability, which other items could give me the extra % to pierce i need? (dont name bows as i wont be hybrid)
    can i get it from crafted items?


    thx. :howdy:
     
  16. Broncobiv2

    Broncobiv2 IncGamers Member

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    Nope, sorry. Razortail is the only item with % chance to pierce. There are no magical affixes with that attribute. Therefore, magical, rare, and crafted items cannot give you a % chance to pierce. Piercing bows, Razortail, and the Pierce skill are the only way to do it.
     
  17. sasja

    sasja IncGamers Member

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    100% pierce is very valuable when facing huge crowds, as in cows. Throughout the game, though, small, medium and largish crowds are much more common, and then it won't matter as much. For normal gameplay, Thundergod has the edge over Razortail imho for its absorb, dual stat bonus and skills, but 100% pierce in cows makes you a faster killer than anything else. However, when you do cows these days it's probably for mf so you'll want to wear Goldwrap anyway, like sir_bazz says.

    In summary, I use Thundergod for questing and levelling and Goldwrap for cows, never getting the benefit of Razortail's pierce, so I pump Pierce to 80% with items (skill level 15).
     

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