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Does Beast RW help Skel Magi? And other questions

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by Josiphos, Sep 3, 2006.

  1. Josiphos

    Josiphos Diabloii.Net Member

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    Does Beast RW help Skel Magi? And other questions

    This question is in regards to a summonmancer, max skell mastery, max skellies, max mages, iron golem(a few points) for PvM boss and area runs.

    I know beast will help the meele skellies and revives...but does it increase the throwing rate of the magis?

    I seem to remember my decrepify slowing down elemental skellies (found in a2...fire, lit etc)...so inversely...Fanat would help my mages throw faster?

    This true or not? Anyone tested?

    Also, is using beast better than say, using a good White Rw wand or Arm of king leoric? Basically is it worth it (in runes) in terms of killing speed (PvM only) to use beast over a good wand.

    I suppose Might mercs are a given...maybe defiance as a distant second?

    Lemme know what you folks have found with your testing.
     
  2. Cope

    Cope Diabloii.Net Member

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    Beast wouldn't help a skeleton mage in any way. Might merc is certainly the best. Personally I would rather have a Thorns, Blessed Aim, Holy Freeze, or Prayer merc than Defiance.
     
  3. FooSoft

    FooSoft Diabloii.Net Member

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    Actually, I think fanaticism does increase mage attack speed, although I'm not 100% positive on this...
     
  4. Cope

    Cope Diabloii.Net Member

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    Maybe you're right. I just checked the necro skeleton damage calculator and that claims that fanatacism does increase their attack speed, but it also says it increases the regular skeletons' attack speed, which I recall hearing was false. So I'll change my answer to "maybe".
     
  5. Jackson

    Jackson Diabloii.Net Member

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    Arm of King leoric is generally used in the first couple minutes when raising your army.

    Afterwards, you can switch off to a Beast, or a HoTO (as most prefer), or a Wizardspike (if you're craving the extra resists).

    I use a Wizardspike myself, since I've yet to see the bonuses of an extra +3 skills while teleing. Also, I'm not really happy with my resists in hell mode while carrying Beast. I find the FCR, and resists from Wizardspike MUCH more beneficial.
     
  6. deademon

    deademon Diabloii.Net Member

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    hey guys whats goin on...i know i have not posted much... sry : / ive been busy with school, but im a fishymancer myself and i thought i might be able to shed some light...here it goes...first off with the fanta helping ur mages...no it does not (im almost positive) because it does NOT have FCR it has ias... if it had both then (if you could imagine) casters carrying around beast for fcr...and thats not the case...sry...and for the beast vs wand... jackson could not have said it better...you raise your army with king leoric and switch to beast... speaking from experiance i raise 19 skellies(just skellies not +mages and + revives) which is skill lvl 49...i think...then when you switch to wand the skill lvl will drop enough to lose one skelly...but your skellies still retain the lvl 49 stats...so yes you will have one less but they have the same stats AND are pumped by that fanta aura from beast = gg monsters...and the merc i am using is might with bramble and pride...sooo you do not really need the thorns merc and for that matter iron golem. that also goes for the holy freeze...yes it is nice to slow them down but that is what decrep is for, i use clay golem to slow... with the 2 forts that my merc gives the skellies through auras, but i do admit i do NOT use beast..kinda poor right now...they walk through pretty much anything as it is...they do not need slow enemies, they like that damage and if i added fant they would probubly start worshipping me...these are my playing styles though...if one likes defensive over offensive then use the holy freeze or as jackson states using wiz for resist...it is all in ones playing style..some would say pump skellys as much as possible...nothing should get close enough to hit you...while others say you can not count on your skellies to protect you...hope i helped and if i am wrong about ANYTHING do not be afraid to correct...im 99.99% possitive about everything i wrote..i could still be wrong :shocked:
     
  7. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Skellies do get faster attack speed, but the 15 frame next-delay waiting time makes any increase in attack speed rather useless.
     
  8. thefranklin

    thefranklin Diabloii.Net Member

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    So it would be pointless for me to get rid of my might merc for an act 1 rogue with lvl 15 fanaticism?

    And if I did that, I might get last wish for the might, but that might be overkill.
     
  9. deademon

    deademon Diabloii.Net Member

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    do auras still stack on mercs..i thought they fixed that : /...well y not keep ur might merc and just have beast on switch???
     
  10. thefranklin

    thefranklin Diabloii.Net Member

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    Level 15 fanat over lvl 9. the might lvl would be about the same.
     
  11. deademon

    deademon Diabloii.Net Member

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    ah i see where ur comin from...but would u rather ur skellies hitting one frame quicker and thats it...or get 2 forts...as i see it might with pride...might merc with pride polearm ... i think the damage would out weigh the one frame a bit more...but meh
     
  12. Lyrs

    Lyrs Diabloii.Net Member

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    If the goal is to help your mages deal more damage, than you will achieve that indirectly with "Beast" only because it allows your mages to survive longer due to monsters being killed off quicker by Warriors and can therefore cast more. To directly increase their damage, you'll have to attain Lower Resist curse and/or "Infinity".
     
  13. Josiphos

    Josiphos Diabloii.Net Member

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    Wow...thanks for all the info guys!

    I hadn't even considered bramble on my merc...for me they have a tendencey to die while fighting bosses, which I WANT to do with this build.

    So, Beast RW is worth it while fighting. I sort of gleaned that from reading the posts, right? Might merc makes total sense, but Pride rw for him is too expensive for my taste...maybe Strength Rw or Ill give him bonehew or something.

    Hmm...without Beast (and might)upping my mages...I'm wondering if its better to max out bone spear or spirit in terms of killing speed. Anyone ever make that build? Max skellies and Bonespear/spirit but only put 1 pt in mages?

    My editor says that mages collectively can start pounding out damage at high level...and I'd only have like 10 pts for a bone synergy anyway...damage may be too low...

    Wow...I cant imagine this set up: beast on me, Might merc with bramble, and Pride...holy crap...toss in Amp damage...knife through butter...
    Any more thoughts?
     
  14. Lyrs

    Lyrs Diabloii.Net Member

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    That is a very powerful setup, so much so that it can be difficult to run Chaos or Baal due to Iron Maiden killing your warriors so quickly.


    Anyway, the best use of your bone&psn skills to increase your kill rate is to increase Corpse Explosion for its radius. Cast amp or lower resist on monsters and then cast Corpse Explosion. The damage inflicted on any monster in the radius is 50-100% of the hitpoints of the corpse, dealt out in half fire and half physical damage.

    A maxed out Corpse explosion means that you'll be blowing up screen's full of monsters and some.
     
  15. sequoia

    sequoia Diabloii.Net Member

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    what do you mean by this? and do mages get this same "15 frame next-delay"?
     
  16. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Skellies have an attack speed in frames. When they attack their attack lasts that number of frames. After this they have to wait 15 frames before they can attack again. This rest period is called the next-delay. For example if your Skellies attack at 7 frames, the time between hitting a monster and hitting the monster again is 7 + 15 = 22 frames. All minions have this delay.
     
  17. Josiphos

    Josiphos Diabloii.Net Member

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    So lets say I had some hacked item that let them attack at 1fps :prop: The attack would go something like

    1+15= 16 frames or an attack every 0.64 seconds.

    It seems that ias is always helpful...right? 16 frames is better than 15+15= 30 frames.

    This would apply to my skellie mages throwing rate as well. 16 total vs 30 total? Oui?
     
  18. RTB

    RTB Diabloii.Net Member

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    The column that value is taken from is called AIDel, or AI delay. Its exact use depends on the AI used, but for skellies it's a delay between attacks, and other decisions. Baal for example seems to ignore it for the most part.

    Nextdelay has an effect on certain missiles, so that they prevent a monster/player to be hit by a missile with nextdelay for an x amount of frames.
     
  19. Josiphos

    Josiphos Diabloii.Net Member

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    So...IAS will help both skellies and mages "swing/throw" faster, right? They will both sit there for the 15 frames between attacks, I'm not disputing that, but as far as damage/frame, Beast will increase the damage output of BOTH skellies and mages...true?

    Bah...I'm going to set up my necro with beast today. I should have some data from that to report tomorrow.
     
  20. deademon

    deademon Diabloii.Net Member

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    -_- sigh no fanta wount help ur mages....just ur warriors... that fps that the beast helps with only affects the warriors bc u need fcr 4 the mages....and nothing gives mass fcr... : / and 4 dam...that only affects ur warriors as well...ur mages are ele dam not physical...
     

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