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Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

Discussion in 'Monk' started by stillman, Aug 21, 2009.

  1. stillman

    stillman Diabloii.Net Member

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    Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

    Dexterity is mentioned, so this is the "high dex" character, but it is also said he is another melee class akin to the barb. What do you think?

    Also, I take it he is not the shield class unless you count the staff as the new shield. He really makes you think, doesn't he? He seems to be the holy character without shield (or knightly armor), but he also seems reasonable as the bow class. Both? Neither?
     
  2. SEANBCOOL

    SEANBCOOL Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

    I'm pretty sure we have yet to see the ranged/physical class, who I will refer to as the Ranger (I'm fairly confident that the Ranger or something extremely similar will be the 5th and final class).

    First of all, no bow skills for the monk have been mentioned or evidenced in any way. Second, it seems like he is focused around hand-to-hand combat.

    As for the "shield" thing...

    A lot of people seem to think that the speed and technique based melee class (who also happens to be a holy warrior, which a lot of people accurately saw coming) needs a shield. I'm not sure why this is, as the only character class we've seen that has an emphasis on a shield is the Paladin.

    I feel like simply making another class that fits that particular mold is pretty boring. Making a knight class or something similar is just too close to what we've already had. Been there, done that.

    HOWEVER...

    Keep in mind that, aside from quick, precise melee attacks -- like the ever-popular Paladin -- the Monk also seems focused around defense. I would venture a guess that the Monk will feature similar abilities to the Paladin's auras, as well as something like the Amazon's dodge/avoid/evade abilities. What we have seen so far is the Impenetrable Defense skill, which appears to deflect enemy missiles back at them... very cool skill, I might add.

    In short, the Monk is the new Paladin. We haven't seen the ranged fighter yet.
     
  3. SEANBCOOL

    SEANBCOOL Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

    Oops, double post. Got a little too frisky ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2009
  4. Deckard Cain

    Deckard Cain Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

    Definitely odd to see that the Monk is a high dex based character. I would have thought that the ranged character would be the high dex, but it seems like there now may be 2 high dex characters.

    Imo the monk does not look like he will have anything to do with bows. It seems like he will be using fist items (possibly even a class specific item??). All of his skills appear to be close quarters.

    It would be hard to fathom D3 not having a ranged character, but it seems a possibility now (though i highly highly doubt it).
     
  5. ancalagon

    ancalagon Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

    He has katars like the D2 assassin ... its concept art on the D3 Monk class page.

    Definitely gonna be a ranger. Blizzard actually listens to fans. Most common suggestions before Blizzcon 08 were a new spellcaster, a monk and a ranger, closely followed by Templar (But meeeh isnt Templar like Pally?). We have the first 2. And where would the game be without a bow class, we had both in D1 and D2. Trademark!

    I was hoping for neither a monk nor a ranger, and something super original instead. But Im more than happy with the monk! He is amazing. Kinda kills the fun of guessing next years class though, gonna be 100% ranger now

    Gonna be fun though. Some crazy new multishot and strafe abilities, enhanced with various elemental attacks and crits and explosions and curses with Runes. Can you imagine how cool the new skill system is gonna be once fully implemented? We have not seen the true potential of runes on any of the classes yet!


     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2009
  6. SEANBCOOL

    SEANBCOOL Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

    I'm also gonna go ahead and say that the Ranger will be introduced as a female.

    Not only were the Rogue and Amazon females, but there has only been one character thus far introduced in its female form (Wizard).

    I will also play my Ranger as a female, because it wouldn't seem right playing that type of class as a dude.
     
  7. Telzen

    Telzen Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

    Impenetrable Defense I believe stops everything. And yeah I don't think he will be using any shields or bows.
     
  8. Kinbote

    Kinbote Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

    If he has the equivalent to "Blade Fury," then I think I've found my class.
     
  9. Nojin

    Nojin Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

    Do we need shields? Blizzard has stated there are no tanks or healers--every class is a DPS class. So do we need a class that is high on defense?

    That being said, a shield-based class could use the shield in offensive ways. I'm talking shield slams, charges, etc. But at the same time, how many (visually) flashy abilities could they come up with that revolve around the use of a shield?

    Blizzard has stated that shields will be in the game. So that raises the question; do we need a class that revolves around a shield? I think no. I believe a shield should essentially be for players that feel they have too low of defense, that die too often because they don't know how to avoid enemy attacks (or fall into traps too often), or that want to throw themselves into the thick of things and/or want to play the role of a "tank."

    I'd be repeating myself if I stated that Blizzard is only making DPS classes (well damn, I just did), but Blizzard is allowing for some unique customization of player classes. Even with the abilities we know about, the Wizard could easily specialize in abilities that would go well with a sword n board combination.

    I do see myself equipping a shield--but only in use for a secondary weapon, and only when battles get really heated. I can imagine myself swapping to a sword n board for boss fights, especially if I know they're going to be tough! Might slow down the DPS a bit, but at least the character will survive. I think it's more fun to play dynamically!
     
  10. CursedZero

    CursedZero Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

    It's difficult to say that the Monk will be "the high dex character", because we don't know what's the fifth class. Also, i think the Monk won't have bow skills, because this's what you find in the Monk page on the official Diablo 3 site:

    Though I do wonder for what need his thousand gods would require a mortal man to implement their will. When I asked him why he did not carry a sword or, indeed, any weapon at all, he simply replied, "My body is my weapon." Then raising his hand and tapping his forehead, he added, "As is my mind."

    Maybe he'll be able to equip bows.


     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2010
  11. NASE

    NASE Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

    How about this as a way to implement the ranged aspect.

    You could put a minor focus on bows on the monk, it wouldn't be misplaced. The weapons that will be used seem like those that the D&D monk uses. Quarter staff, clubs and (cross)bows IIRC. And those are still counted as damage from body. certainly the quarter staff and the club are weapons that are made for hand to hand combat specialists.

    Then, we have a whole class to cover the throwing weapons in all aspects as well as the mele combat with a shield. Seems like a good combination to combine ranged and mele combat in one character as no switching of weapons is needed what so ever. And it seems we covered most of the aspects possible (safe for shape shifting).


    Therefore, my vote goes to yes. He'll have a bow skill, maybe only one. But one for sure.
     
  12. DemolitionSquid

    DemolitionSquid Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

    Its sad how many times I need to post this.

    Barbarian has: Shield Specialization, Charge, Warcry auras. Various resistance passives.

    Barbarian is the "sword and board" class.


     
  13. Nojin

    Nojin Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

    I just reviewed the Barbarian's skills from Diablo 3 and could only find the word "shield" used once in all of those abilities you mentioned.

    Obviously the Barb has some defensive skills, but you cannot count them as "shield" abilities (otherwise, I could say the exact same thing for any other class).

    So, please explain to me because I do not understand, what abilities actually use the shield?

    EDIT
    I could argue that the defensive passives are evidence against the Barbarian using a shield.

    Think of it this way, if all classes are DPS, why would you spend points into defensive abilities AND use a shield?

    I believe Blizzard meant the defensive passives + Warcry buffs + other defensive abilities to off-set the lower defense that the Barb would have if he didn't use a shield.

    In other words, having a Barb with no shield and no defensive abilities would result in being as fragile as a Witch Doctor with no summons to mitigate damage. (Perhaps I'm comparing apples to oranges, but you get the idea.)

    However, having a Barb with defensive abilities AND a shield would result in a poorly balanced character, who could take a lot of damage but would deal very little.

    If you are using a Barb with a sword n board, don't dump your points into defensive abilities (perhaps just the shield specialization), put them into offensive abilities so you can keep with the the Barbs that are using higher dmg weapons.

    On the other hand, if you are using 2 weapons or a 2 handed weapon, expect to have lower defense. Thus you may want to focus some points into defensive abilities to balance your character out.


    In other words--Defensive abilities encourage/allow Barbarians to avoid using a shield, there is only one ability that promotes the use of the shield.


    Warning: This may be a little off topic.
    In the business world we have a couple of terms--Substitutes and Complements.

    Substitute -- A product or service that negates the need for another product or service. For example, hair-spray is a substitute for moose. Coffee and tea would be another example.

    Complement -- Two products or services that go hand in hand. When a consumer purchases one product, they are more likely to purchase the complement. The most used example is hotdogs and buns.


    Shield specialization is a complement to using shields. The more players use shields, the more the the player is likely to put points into Shield Specialization.

    But in all other cases, I believe having more defensive abilities will be used to substitute the lack of defensive armor. If a player is using a shield, they will be more likely to put points into offensive abilities (except for Shield Specialization) to make up for the lack of offensive based equipment (2 handed weapon or 2 one handed weapons).

    Of course, a player could choose to have a shield + all the other defensive abilities... but that would be like having coffee and tea for breakfast--a very poorly balanced breakfast.

    EDIT
    Again---->

    To make a well rounded character:
    Barbarian with no shield (lacking defensive equipment) + more defensive skills/abilities
    Barbarian with shield (increased defense from equipment) + less defensive skills/abilities

    Poorly balanced characters:
    Barbarian with no shield (lacking defensive equipment) + no defensive skills/abilities = all offensive, weak defense
    Barbarian with shield (increased defense from equipment) + all defensive skills/abilities = all defensive, weak offense


    The only cases where I could see the poorly balanced characters working out would be...

    For the all offense, if the Barbarian sticks to easier areas, doesn't take high risks, allows other players to take damage, and is a veteran player (doesn't die often).

    For the all defense, this could be better foor noobish players that die often, or for players doing Hardcore mode and want to minimize the risk of dying. I want to note that this is the only time that I would call this character a "tank" or a defensive based class.

    But I still wouldn't call him sword n board... cause I could argue that the Wizard is sword n board too...


     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2009
  14. Funkopotamus

    Funkopotamus Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

    Cap' has the shield and ranged dps aspects covered.
    [​IMG]

    Seriously though, I'm expecting an archer. Like a regular one. I say that because I'm seeing a trend of normalcy in these characters. An Asian wizard is kind of weird but I've seen enough borderline racist Disney movies in my childhood to not find it that strange. Though the same could be said about the brown (Californian) sorceress. I guess I'll just flat out say I liked the black characters in the previous games. I'm not even black either so it's not like a relating thing.

    Yeah, they were pretty much just European concepts with their origins changed but it's like when they reimagine a comic book character and it makes them way better.
     
  15. NASE

    NASE Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

    1. going defensive on your skills means you can go offensive on your equipment. In diablo 2, you can change out coh for fort if you invest a bit in natural resistance. And I believe often it's worth the sacrifice. For me, it's probably similar things will be possible in diablo III. So it doesn't prove anything if you ask me. At most, it open the option for a unique approach to the barbarian. But saying that building like that is stupid is kind of soon.

    2. You need to make sure you understand what dps character are. This doesn't mean that every character has to do several 10 k damage per second like a lightning sorcerer with infinity. It simply means that each character have to be damage oriented and capable of soloing the game.
    Take for instance the abbott (in a barbarian version with ebotd zerker and ww - video wanted). It's highly defensive yet is still capable of taking out baals minion in an 8 player game in respectable time.



     
  16. Nojin

    Nojin Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

    Note what you said, which I put in bold. Then note what I said:
    So let me rephrase what I said...

    "Going defensive on your skills means you can go offensive on your equipment," -- such as equipping a 2 handed weapon or 2 weapons, instead of a weapon+shield.

    Looks like we agree.

    I merely said going ALL defense, that is, going all defensive skills + defensive equipment (like using a sword+shield) would be a BAD idea. If you were to use a shield, use offensive skills. But if you have offensive skills, you might have weaker defense, so use a bit of defensive equipment (like a shield).

    What is so funny, is this can actually apply to EVERY class that can use a shield, not just the Barbarian. So if a Wizard has no defensive skills, she might consider using a shield instead of an Orb (or whatever she puts in her offhand).

    Does this make the Wizard a sword n board class? No. She just has the option of using the shield, just like the Barbarian, or probably most other classes.

    When Blizzard is talking about "every class is a DPS class" I do understand that some classes might have higher defense than others. However, I think they are referring more to the roles of an MMORPG.

    In Diablo 2, you didn't have the Healer, Tank, and DPS classes, just DPS.

    What I'm talking about, and I believe Blizzard is talking about, are ROLES that characters play in battle. What ROLE is a character?

    Are they the main damage dealers of the group? Then they are the DPS.
    Do they rush in and taunt all the enemies, taking all the hits, while doing very little damage themselves to allow the DPS classes to kill the enemies? Then they are the tank.
    Do they stand back and heal the tank and whoever else gets damaged? Then they are the healer.


    But because there is no "tank" class, or need for a tank class, there is no need for a sword n board character class.

    --UNLESS--

    And this is what I was trying to point out originally...

    Unless the sword n board class uses his shield to actually damage the monsters, so the class still stays a DPS class and avoids the label as a "tank."



     
  17. skyjuice

    skyjuice Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

    Guys, its a no brainer when they say its a melee class.

    Leave the bows n darts to the range class.
     
  18. JSLAW

    JSLAW Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

    I heard that DIII is going to differ GREATLY than DII in that Blizz is really trying hard not to peg any character to a certain style of gameplay. While a Wizard will not be able to use two-handed axes, there WILL be melee Wizards out there for example.

    On that note, I think the Monk could easily have builds and skills that support a more "physical ranged" attack.
     
  19. raveharu

    raveharu Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

    He's a melee class, my god you people are stubborn :rolleyes:


     
  20. Telzen

    Telzen Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Do you suppose the monk will have bow skills?

    For real. I doubt the monk will even be able to use bows. Has a bow even dropped since the first gameplay video? Maybe there will be no ranged class, that would provide a good laugh.



     

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