Do you believe in Prohibition?

stillman

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Do you believe in Prohibition?

I'm really torn on this issue. I really am.

On the one hand:
I work in a hospital and I am a big health advocate. One potential problem is that marijuana does have a high tar content and has other carcinogens. Most people are going to use the smoking route of administration, so the end of 'dope prohibition' would lead to an increase in cancer. We already have thousands of people landing in the hospital ON PURPOSE. There are the obesity, diabetes, and sexually transmitted infection epidemics. All three are on the rise. You think Diablo, Meph, and Baal are bad? Well, believe me, sugar is killing more people than you would believe.

And they don't just die; no, they take a long time to die and they put a huge strain on the health care system.

So the issue is why add to the problem? Why make it easier for more people to land in the hospital? There are innocent children with cancer who are not getting good enough/fast enough health care because the health professionals and resources are stretched thin treating heart disease and smoking related illnesses. These are preventable and are wasting billions if not trillions over the decades. There are also innocent people in genuine accidents who have to wait in the ER because someone wants to chain smoke and then be waited on hand and foot by the hospital staff.

So adding another smoking product to the mix would just make things worse. More money would be going into more cancer treatment for cool dudes when it could be used to help innocent people who, IMO, deserve better care and research looking into their health problems. But how much of an impact would marijuana really have? This brings us to...

On the other hand:
Tobacco products are far more harmful than marijuana products. Plus, people in general can't smoke an ounce of high-efficacy weed every day. But they can easily smoke an ounce of tobacco each day, even double this. People have jobs to do, and their employers aren't going to let them get high all day. Their employers will, howver, let them smoke tobacco on all their breaks. So for these reasons, marijuana consumption is going to be much less than tobacco consumption. Tabacco is a pretty lame product with a short lasting effect, so people need to smoke the stuff all day. So marijuana would do tiny damage the the public's health compared to tobacco products.

Alcohol has a HUGE cost on society. Later on, in a future post, I will post some numbers I have from my Drugs and Behavior course I took. But to sumarize, many many murders, rapes, spousal abuse, child abuse, motor vehicle accidents, workplace injuries, and other serous and costly problems are alcohol related. The harm and cost to society caused by marijuana is likely to be trivial compared to alcohol and tobacco.

So I am still undecided. I think my ultiamte view as of now is sure, remove marijuana prohibition, but only if you make a nation wide ban on tobacco products. Take something harmful away before you add something else that is harmful.

You can't just add whatever you like to the mix. Why not make heroin legal? Afterall, the number of people getting killed from ice cream is far higher than the number of deaths caused by heroin. If you don't believe me, go visit a nursing home. The residents will all be thin or average wieght with maybe 1-2 obese residents who are confined to wheelchairs and are living a very poor quality of life. All the serious ice cream users die prior to 60. Or, they have strokes and live the rest of their lives institutionalized.

You have to ask yourself, "can society afford more sick people?" This is a tough question, because most of us are not exposed to sick people in our day to day lives. We walk down the street to work and we only see other people also walking to work. We don't see all the sick people because they are in the hospital hooked up to machines with nurses keeping them alive. We tend to walk around oblivious to the helath care problems because we only see people when they are up and functioning.

All I can add is people really don't like having catheters in their urethas because they can't make it to the washroom anymore. Although it is too late for them, if you ask them whether they would like smoking to be increased in society, they would likely say no. This is getting a bit OT, but patients complain about not being able to go home, even though they own a house, and they have 3 cars, and they have this and they have that. Well none of that matters when you need a hospital staff to keep you breathing. Nothing matters anymore when your oxygen saturation is too low and you require a long (maybe permanent) stay at a hospital. You can own all the houses you like, but it is all untouchable if you don't have working lungs.

It's a tough call. I think many people would love for marijuana to be legal, but those same people would eat their words when it cripples them 20 short years later. Bill Mahr once said, "can you really legistlate taste?" reffering to some drugs (nicotine) being legal and marijuana not. Well it's more complicated than that. Like I said, preventable illnesses are hogging up the resources. Maybe they could legalize it, but I think doctors and hosptials should be allowed to prioritize their patients with dark bias. Doctors should be able to say, "no, we can't treat your self inflicted lung disease...not until we treat all these kids with cancer first. Get in line please." Right now, it's pretty much the other way around.

Note: I live in Canada and hospital care and hospital drugs are free. But this is giving people a system to fall back on so they feel they can just abuse themselves all they want and the health care system will take care of them. Well, it does, but they are not miracle workers and it's mostly providing comfort, not cures.
 
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Johnny

Banned
Re: Do you believe in Prohibition?

75th year? You should have made this thread 25 years ago or in 25 years.
 

Tanooki

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Do you believe in Prohibition?

I think we should legalize all drugs known to man. Of course, before partaking you'd have to sign an agreement that you give up all claims to government health-care, and acknowledge you give up your right to medical help, and agree that you're OK to never receive another welfare check again.
 

PFSS

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Do you believe in Prohibition?

I think we should legalize all drugs known to man. Of course, before partaking you'd have to sign an agreement that you give up all claims to government health-care, and acknowledge you give up your right to medical help, and agree that you're OK to never receive another welfare check again.
We should also strike people who have ever eaten fast food, added salt to their meal or don't do at least three sessions of cardio exercise a week from getting medical help too.

And make damn sure that those who ever drink any sort of alcoholic beverage are struck too.

And allow private health insurance companies not pay out for people who suffer any form of injury if they had any level of blood alcohol whatsoever at the time of admission to hospital.

Actually - expand that - allow any form of insurance company to not pay out if the person had any level of blood alcohol at the time of the incident if the loss of judgement/coordination of any amount of alcohol could possibly have made the incident more likely.

Stillman said:
So adding another smoking product to the mix would just make things worse. More money would be going into more cancer treatment for cool dudes when it could be used to help innocent people who, IMO, deserve better care and research looking into their health problems. But how much of an impact would marijuana really have?
I wonder, statistically, what has a more adverse effect on a persons life expectancy:

Moderate Marijuana use or a Criminal conviction for Marijuana posession.


 
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AeroJonesy

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Do you believe in Prohibition?

We should also strike people who have ever eaten fast food, added salt to their meal or don't do at least three sessions of cardio exercise a week from getting medical help too.

And make damn sure that those who ever drink any sort of alcoholic beverage are struck too.
Perhaps we could charge them more in tax.

And allow private health insurance companies not pay out for people who suffer any form of injury if they had any level of blood alcohol whatsoever at the time of admission to hospital.
Well if that's the contract one signed up for, then yes, we should allow that.



 

PFSS

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Do you believe in Prohibition?

Perhaps we could charge them more in tax.
Don't people who drink alcohol already pay additional tax that's directly proportional to the amount of alcohol they consume? (Well - purchase)

Well if that's the contract one signed up for, then yes, we should allow that.
Don't most insurance companies already have a clause about self inflicted things?


 

BobCox2

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Do you believe in Prohibition?

I think we should legalize all drugs known to man. Of course, before partaking you'd have to sign an agreement that you give up all claims to government health-care, and acknowledge you give up your right to medical help, and agree that you're OK to never receive another welfare check again.
As long as I don't have to pay taxes sure - the government should not be in the job of providing these services in the first place because they do a crappy job at a high cost.


 

SnickerSnack

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Do you believe in Prohibition?

I've long been of the opinion that most (maybe even all) recreational drugs should be legal.

Maybe you should have to be licensed to possess the drugs and tie that license to holding a job. Or along the lines of what Tanooki said, you agree to not receive any government assistance for a certain period. If you stop using the drug for a certain period and are in reasonable health, then you should be eligible for government aid again.

BTW, moderate marijuana use improves long term memory. Keyword, moderate.
 

Johnny

Banned
Re: Do you believe in Prohibition?

BTW, moderate marijuana use improves long term memory. Keyword, moderate.
or the other way around depending on who you ask

This is where drugies allways sink their own debate ship.

They start of my arguing that drugs should'nt be illegal. So the more liberal crowd nods.

Then they claim that the drugs do no harm when used properly and the liberal crowd gives a cautious nod.

Then they go on and claim that drug use is infact good for your health, and this is where the support is lost and they're back on square one trying to get it atleast decriminalized.



 

SnickerSnack

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Do you believe in Prohibition?

who smoked between two and 350 joints a week
350 a week?!?

The research also found that after a month of not smoking, people who had been moderate users - smoking up to 70 marijuana cigarettes a week - showed signs of improved blood flow.
70 joints per week is their idea of moderate? They tested pot heads, not moderate users.

And yeah, I must be a druggie since I think drugs aren't necessarily bad. Don't tell my employers! Also, since one study indicates that recent marijuana use affects the blood vessels in the brain (surprise!), there must be no good long term effects.

EDIT: Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "moderate" to begin with. I mean it in the sense of "moderation in all things."
 

stardrowned

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Do you believe in Prohibition?

Hmm, I consider 70 Spliffs a week a serious drug problem. Thats 10 a day! Not even the most ****ed up potheads I know are that bad.
And from my very own experience I can tell that the stuff does in no way help your brain functions, except maybe creativity and this stuff. But thats of course just my personal experience.
I wonder if it would be possible to put a tax on a drug (any recreational drug) which would pay for all the health problems arising from this drug. It would probably make the drug so expensive that it would be trafficked anyway, but it's a thought.
 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Do you believe in Prohibition?

I'd say more than one or two a week is beyond casual use.
 

PFSS

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Do you believe in Prohibition?

I wonder if it would be possible to put a tax on a drug (any recreational drug) which would pay for all the health problems arising from this drug. It would probably make the drug so expensive that it would be trafficked anyway, but it's a thought.
In the UK I understand that the tax revenues from Cigarettes more than equal the cost to the NHS of treating smoking related illness.

I'm not so sure about the Tax on alcohol though, as the taxes would also have to pay for a huge portion of the police force and a fair bit of street cleaning in addition to paying for the treatment for alcohol related illness.

IIRC In the UK a little while ago a Government funded study found that Cannabis was less harmful than Alcohol or Tobacco, so the government then rejected it. I can't find the exact study but this is another one along the same lines

LINK


 
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