Do you believe in God?

[Spinns]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Finally someone who can word what I've been trying to say a hell of lot better

 

[Felix]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Thank you my brother, God bless you.

 

[krischan]

Re: Do you believe in God?

A Christian is someone who talks about Christ all the time. Henceforth the name which came to be as a mockery of this situation. The same way the Greeks named foreigners Barbarians because they heard their language as a barbarbar.

The idea of dividing believers of Christ into separate groups is in err, as the apostles very clearly state. As Paul puts it, loosely from rememberance; Was it Paul that rose from the grave, was it Peter?

Now as protestants have to critisize the catholic church for, is holding on to theological misinterpretations while at the same time calling patent on the faith.

Some of these things are: Peter was a married man, yet catholic priests can't marry. Peter was the apostle of the jews, nothing hints to him ever being in Rome. Paul was the one who went up into Europe.

The idea of a pope as i direct standin for God himself is very wrong interpretation of Christianity to many believers outside the catholic church.

In new testament one man shouts; blessed is the one who carried you, and Jesus responds; blessed is anyone who's name is written in the book of life. So Virgin Mary is a human being who will receive salvation, not by any means a divine being as she is a human saved from the fire like the rest of the holy. And thus the idea of praying to her is very mistakenly in the eyes of those who see this as a wrongdoing.

Jesus says to Peter (Petrus meaning rock, so a play on words); You are the rock upon which I will build my church. Jesus also states; I give you the keys to the heavens. What you tie here on earth shall be tied in heaven. And what you set free here on earth shall be set free in heaven.

By claiming Peter as their patent the Pope claims right to these responsibilities. It is also by this the pope seat again and again in history have spewn out anathemas left and right. And promised salvation for gold too back in the day. Actions that lead to protestantism (And reading the bible for yourself!).

By all measures the most "correct" theology of today is not from the pope seat, it is from protestantism. But again, the virtues of the Lord are defended with most vigor by the Roman church, in a time where the protestants in many ways seem to be throwing belief away as they make their own rules (*** marriage, abortion, all the stuff you don't start talking about at your Boss' dinner party).

But the Christian is the one who talks about Christ and tells you Jesus is the living Son of God. Thus the Muslim God have nothing in common with christianity and the God of Jesus Christ, which by his words and by his actions, by his father in heaven, have made me come to believe in him and only him as the Lord.

I haven't said that the Catholic church is right with what they say about the issue, I just mentioned their reasoning and I agree to a couple of your points. However, that won't mean that Catholics have to be distinguished from Christians. A common definition of Christianity (and what a Christian is) is found e.g. here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity.

 

[TheMadCow]

Re: Do you believe in God?

I opted for - dont know

I'm not too sure if i'd say I belive in God or not.

I know that I dont belive evolution can account for the way we are and the world around us. I'd like to think we are a colony world and we came here x amount of years ago from a home world elsewhere. We suplanted the current people (neanderthal man(spl?)) as we knew the planet would be suitable as they were already here.

TheMadCow

 

[Felix]

Re: Do you believe in God?

I haven't said that the Catholic church is right with what they say about the issue, I just mentioned their reasoning and I agree to a couple of your points. However, that won't mean that Catholics have to be distinguished from Christians. A common definition of Christianity (and what a Christian is) is found e.g. here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity.

I tried to make distinguishable shortly the stances of the Roman Church that the other churches find incorrect. I also made certain to mention that the Roman Church is showing the most muscle when it comes to loyalty to what they do believe. A sign of Peter maybe both things? I won't say it is not, because the Christian is also going to their church somewhere I'm sure.

But the church of Jesus is build upon the faith that Peter showed. Call it what we may, it's the faith of the individual that makes a church. It all started year 0, when Jesus was born. The concile that formed the Roman church in the middle of the second century is not what we are counting from.

 

[stephan]

Re: Do you believe in God?

I opted for - dont know

I'm not too sure if i'd say I belive in God or not.

I know that I dont belive evolution can account for the way we are and the world around us. I'd like to think we are a colony world and we came here x amount of years ago from a home world elsewhere. We suplanted the current people (neanderthal man(spl?)) as we knew the planet would be suitable as they were already here.

TheMadCow

So you're an "in-the-closet"-scientologist. :badteeth:

And yes, Catholics are christians.

 

[TheMadCow]

Re: Do you believe in God?

So you're an "in-the-closet"-scientologist. :badteeth:

And yes, Catholics are christians.

Hehe! Thats what they belive is it? I've heard the term but never knew what they belived.

TheMadCow

 

[Dondrei]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Yes, Catholics and Protestants have different beliefs. All the bazillions of different kinds of Protestants have different beliefs to each other too.

Many people say its blasphemy because it is not based on biblical principle in fact they break the 2nd commandment strait up
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them;

They break this with the idolatry of the saints and Mary thus it is Blasphemy.

Pfft, every Christian commits idolatry when they pray to a cross.

But the Christian is the one who talks about Christ and tells you Jesus is the living Son of God. Thus the Muslim God have nothing in common with christianity and the God of Jesus Christ, which by his words and by his actions, by his father in heaven, have made me come to believe in him and only him as the Lord.

Muslims recognise Jesus.

 

[buttershug]

Re: Do you believe in God?

You didn't read what I posted, but that's ok. Joseph Smith was not a member of those churches, they were merely part of a religious revival that caused him to search for the answers that led him to restore the church of Jesus Christ. There is no connection.

The bible does not come from Rome. The old Testament is from Jewish Prophets, and was written in Hebrew. The New Testament is from the apostles and disciples of Christ, and was written in Greek and maybe some Aramaic. It has been translated many different times, and the first time it was translated into English was by John Wycliffe, who was a catholic dissident and translated the NT directly from the Latin Vulgate.

He was followed by William Tyndale, who was the first to make a translation directly from the Hebrew and Greek. He was executed for heresy, but then when King James gathered his 54 scholars in 1607 from the universities they used a lot of his work, as well as some that Miles Coverdale and others had done. The Authorized Version, or King James version was then published in 1611, which is the Bible that I use.

While there certainly was work done on the bible by catholics, or the church of Rome as you call it, it does not originate from them. There has been many contributions made, and while I feel there are translating errors etc... I am still very grateful for all the work that was done so that we can have the bible today.

I did read what you wrote. He was influenced by what he was told. Ok so he didn't formally follow those other two but they are steps in the path he followed.
And the apostles wrote NOTHING in the Bible. Not one word was written by anybody that actually ever met Jesus. And I"m not talking about the English translations. I'm talking about the original. It was written on behalf of those that had which is misleading I think.
To make it perfectly clear Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John did not write the books with their names. I"m not even sure if anyone that even knew them wrote them. Maybe Dondrei knows.

And the Old Testament was written before the Church of Rome but they picked and chose what to put into the version they released.

What about the Iliad? does Homer not get any credit because he didn't translate it into English?

 

[PFSS]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Pfft, every Christian commits idolatry when they pray to a cross.

I also missed the bit in the bible where everyone gathers around an evergreen tree filled with fairies.

I think that sort of thing was in a couple of pagan religions that used to hang around northern Europe but that can't be right because when they converted to Christianity they gave up all their pagan traditions and didn't try to smuggle them into their new religion.

Where the hell an egg laying bunny came from though...

 

[SSNLDO]

Re: Do you believe in God?

I missed the religious option that said we were someones Petri dish.

I figure someone somewhere is running an experiment (or even a bet) to see if his Petri dish will grow faster than the other guys.

So, which religion, hmm... Which one fits with Petri dish?

Religion, is a smile on a dog
Edie Brickel

Or a tick on society?

 

[WildBerry]

Re: Do you believe in God?

In new testament one man shouts; blessed is the one who carried you, and Jesus responds; blessed is anyone who's name is written in the book of life. So Virgin Mary is a human being who will receive salvation, not by any means a divine being as she is a human saved from the fire like the rest of the holy. And thus the idea of praying to her is very mistakenly in the eyes of those who see this as a wrongdoing.

Except if you weren't too busy trying to paint them black in colours that were old back in the day of Luther himself, you'd notice that no Catholic worth her salt is actually praying to Virgin Mary, but asking the blessed mother to pray the poor Catholic. It's merely a prayer of intercession, even if it isn't read aloud in Churches - it's someone praying for you; most protestants have that as well. Same deal with the saints, and the Orthodox icons.

 

[Majaii]

Re: Do you believe in God?

I did read what you wrote. He was influenced by what he was told. Ok so he didn't formally follow those other two but they are steps in the path he followed.

My apologies then for saying you didn't read it. I don't deny he was influenced, but he was influenced away, so there is no connection. Anyways doesn't really matter.

And the apostles wrote NOTHING in the Bible. Not one word was written by anybody that actually ever met Jesus. And I"m not talking about the English translations. I'm talking about the original. It was written on behalf of those that had which is misleading I think.
To make it perfectly clear Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John did not write the books with their names. I"m not even sure if anyone that even knew them wrote them. Maybe Dondrei knows.

Just curious, where are you getting that from? Sure Luke was not an apostle, he was a doctor and traveling companion of Paul, and compiled what others wrote, but Mathew, Mark, and John? Just because you don't think they wrote the books doesn't mean they didn't. Admittedly I can't prove to you they did, but I don't think you could prove they didn't either, and in the end what is the point? If they were actually written in journals or if they are what other poeple recorded, would that make them any less true? Either you believe the account is correct (as far as it is translated correctly) or you don't, which disciple wrote them doesn't really matter.

And the Old Testament was written before the Church of Rome but they picked and chose what to put into the version they released.

There are enough different copies running around that it is pretty obvious that the main things have not changed. David did not get slain by Goliath in the Latin, and slay him in the Hebrew etc...

What about the Iliad? does Homer not get any credit because he didn't translate it into English?

I must admit I am not getting you here, no one even knows if Homer wrote the Illiad. If he did, then Homer would rightly get the credit, in which case you validate my point, it is the original authors not the compilers who get the credit for the book. Hence why the old testament comes from the jews, and the new testament from the writings of the disciples.

 

[buttershug]

Re: Do you believe in God?

As far as I know none of the Gospels were written by anyone who ever met Jesus Christ. That pen was put to paper long after he and anyone who knew him were dead. That they were not written from journals. That they were written by people of the church of Rome.

I am curious as to whether they were written before or after it was voted that Jesus was of divine birth.
Maybe Wildberry or Dondrei know.

Majaii, you really should study up on the history of the Bible. And I mean independantly of the Bible.

I still think if Joeseph Smith had been say Muslim then what he told the world would be different from what he did tell the world. So it does matter what he started from.

 

[PFSS]

Re: Do you believe in God?

My apologies then for saying you didn't read it. I don't deny he was influenced, but he was influenced away, so there is no connection. Anyways doesn't really matter.

Either way there is a connection, but you seem to be arguing for the fact that he pulled his ideas out of a vacum rather than having built on what Christians had practiced for a thousand years or so as means to give his ideas more weight for the 'true' version of Christianity. Which seems an odd path to take.

Just curious, where are you getting that from? Sure Luke was not an apostle, he was a doctor and traveling companion of Paul, and compiled what others wrote, but Mathew, Mark, and John? Just because you don't think they wrote the books doesn't mean they didn't. Admittedly I can't prove to you they did, but I don't think you could prove they didn't either,

I thought it was widely accepted that the Gospels were not written for a hundred years or so after the death of Jesus. But I'm sure that others on here can give you a fuller explanation.

and in the end what is the point? If they were actually written in journals or if they are what other poeple recorded, would that make them any less true? Either you believe the account is correct (as far as it is translated correctly) or you don't, which disciple wrote them doesn't really matter.

When people today argue over the tense or exact meaning/context of a single word that was spoken two thousand years ago in a different language which has since evolved itself, but not recorded in writing until a hundred or so years later... I don't know - if you can't see why that would give cause to take things with a pinch of salt then I don't know what would.

There are enough different copies running around that it is pretty obvious that the main things have not changed. David did not get slain by Goliath in the Latin, and slay him in the Hebrew etc...

Which is the exact verse where we're told that all the laws laid down in the Old Testament don't count anymore (except for the ones that do), I'm not a biblical scholar, I forget.

 

[krischan]

Re: Do you believe in God?

I must admit I am not getting you here, no one even knows if Homer wrote the Illiad. If he did, then Homer would rightly get the credit, in which case you validate my point, it is the original authors not the compilers who get the credit for the book. Hence why the old testament comes from the jews, and the new testament from the writings of the disciples.

Homer will not get all of the credits for the English version of the Iliad. It will still be most of them, of course, but the translator did a valuable part of the work (i.e. the translated Iliad, not the Iliad itself) as well and if he screws up the job, people might say that Homer wrote crap.

 

[WildBerry]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Which is the exact verse where we're told that all the laws laid down in the Old Testament don't count anymore (except for the ones that do), I'm not a biblical scholar, I forget.

Jesus says a lot of things. Not sure if he says that, but at least you know he says...

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

You might be thinking of this, though.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Luther underlined that a lot. Even so, around that very passage the law is still mentioned to go on strong.

I am curious as to whether they were written before or after it was voted that Jesus was of divine birth.
Maybe Wildberry or Dondrei know.

Dondrei will correct me on this I'm sure, but I thought no such votes could've been cast before the first ecumenical council, which would be at Niceae year 325, so I would assume they were written well before. Until Niceae, there was a bit of tug-of-war on whether or not Jesus was fully divine and fully human.

But I'm probably wrong here.

 

[Tanooki]

Re: Do you believe in God?

A bit off topic what denomination are you Tanooki?

I was raised (until I was 7 and we moved) in an E Free church and then attended a nondenominational church. When I got married we attended a different church (Christian and Missionary Alliance) until the pastor left and then we stopped going. I currently don't attend a traditional church. For the past year, I've been meeting with a group of about 7 different families. We meet Saturday night and rotate homes. I rarely host as my house isn't large enough.

The same way the Greeks named foreigners Barbarians because they heard their language as a barbarbar.

I can't wait to call someone a "Blahblahian"

The parts of the bible don't come from Rome, of course, but the bible is a compilation, a selection of texts, not a complete collection. There were more texts about Jesus and his apostles, but not all of them made it into the bible.

I've read some of those "other" texts that got "left out". Trust me, there's a reason they weren't included. For example, the "Gospel" of Thomas has Jesus (as a child) smiting a boy for some forgettable reason. A lot of thought, prayer and debate went into selecting which texts would become canon and which were considered noncanon. I fully trust the council got it right.

By all measures the most "correct" theology of today is not from the pope seat, it is from protestantism. But again, the virtues of the Lord are defended with most vigor by the Roman church, in a time where the protestants in many ways seem to be throwing belief away as they make their own rules (*** marriage, abortion, all the stuff you don't start talking about at your Boss' dinner party).

My wife is a fairly new Christian, so she wasn't raised to hate Catholicism. See can see many things the Catholic church does that are good, but other Protestants reject simply because it originated from the Catholic church. The whole "baby and the bathwater" sort of thing.

It's interesting to note that Martin Luther wasn't attempting to break the church into two groups - he was trying to fix Catholicism from within.

Pfft, every Christian commits idolatry when they pray to a cross.

When have I ever prayed using any icon?

Muslims recognise Jesus.

Recognize him as what? Shouldn't they hate him for being Jewish? Did they "recognize" his quote "I am the Way the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me." as being true? See.. Moses never made a bold statement like that. So we nonJews can "recognize" Moses and still see Jesus as the Messiah. A Muslim CANNOT "recognize" Jesus and still follow Muhammad. If they did, Muhammadian would simply be a denomination, like Calvinism and Lutheran.

And the apostles wrote NOTHING in the Bible. Not one word was written by anybody that actually ever met Jesus. And I"m not talking about the English translations. I'm talking about the original. It was written on behalf of those that had which is misleading I think.
To make it perfectly clear Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John did not write the books with their names. I"m not even sure if anyone that even knew them wrote them. Maybe Dondrei knows.

Luke wasn't an apostle. He was a physician who heard about what had happened and went around interviewing people who were there. He wrote both Luke and Acts. (I never understood why the order wasn't Matthew Mark John Luke Acts.)

Paul wrote most of the letters found in the end... basically the chapters named after cities where the local church was. He also wasn't one of the original 12, but he met them after becoming a Christian. He even rebuked Peter on at least one issue where Peter was in the wrong.

 

[KremBanan]

Re: Do you believe in God?

I have seen more proof that Santa exists than that "God" does.

 

[Johnny]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Recognize him as what? Shouldn't they hate him for being Jewish? Did they "recognize" his quote "I am the Way the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me." as being true? See.. Moses never made a bold statement like that. So we nonJews can "recognize" Moses and still see Jesus as the Messiah. A Muslim CANNOT "recognize" Jesus and still follow Muhammad. If they did, Muhammadian would simply be a denomination, like Calvinism and Lutheran.

Muslims recognize Jesus as a great prophet but certainly not as gods son.

Also muslims have only hated jews for the last couple of decades.

Infact when the muslims invaded Europe they let the jewish population practise their own religion as long as they submited to muslim rule. Then when the christians came and liberated the area they started by killing off alot of the jews for practising witchcraft and what not.