Do you believe in God?

[BobCox2]

Re: Do you believe in God?

There's also a huge difference between a difference of interpretation and down right blasphemy

Of all the strange crimes that humanity has legislated out of nothing, blasphemy is the most amazing - with obscenity and indecent exposure fighting it out for second and third place

 

[krischan]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Petrus is Peter and that scripture is so often misinterpreted

Who decides about what's interpreted correctly and what's misinterpreted ? The bible is written by humans and it's certainly manipulated, so interpretations are generally a bit dubious and insecure, in particular if they are made about those who assembled the bible.

The passage essentially says that Jesus wanted build his church on people like Simon and I wouldn't be surprised if it was added to the bible to justify the founding of a Christian church. It was Simon who was the first bishop of Rome and thus the the first pope. That title was assigned to him later, of course, and the course of things might have not been Jesus's intent, but the Catholics can still more or less consider themselves as the church which was founded by Simon.

 

[WildBerry]

Re: Do you believe in God?

I find it really bizarre when Americans talk about Catholics and Christians like they're completely separate religions. I mean for one thing, if anyone has the right to claim the word "Christian", it's Catholics.

QFMFT.

What's wrong with a good old-fashioned clover?

Do those leaves appear to look completely different to each other to you? You're quite the botanist.

No they weren't the original Christians existed during and after the life of Christ and the word/religion of Catholicism appeared around 107 AD and and many Easter Orthodox churches refer to the Pope as the head of the Church and call themselves Catholic,

Remind me again... who if these Early Churchers are still going on and supersede the Roman Catholics' claim to the first still intact group to take up the name of Christians?

Broad sense catholic =/= Roman Catholic. Catholic = general, common.

 

[NASE]

Re: Do you believe in God?

[...] acted against jewish law. the three were washing hands after eating a meal with bread instead of before it, healing on the sabbath, and i forget the third still.

Allow me to say that it's quite short sighted to 'forget' about someone with such a impact simply for breaking 3 rules, of which one is simply stupid and an other not important enough to remember. I'm not saying you should make him messiah or even profit, though from what I understand, you're just ignoring him while he did make some very good points.

 

[WildBerry]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Allow me to say that it's quite short sighted to 'forget' about someone with such a impact simply for breaking 3 rules, of which one is simply stupid and an other not important enough to remember. I'm not saying you should make him messiah or even profit, though from what I understand, you're just ignoring him while he did make some very good points.

Not all his points were valid from Orthodox Jewish position. Do take notice some of even his valid points were formulated pretty outrageously from the POV of the contemporary social and religious standards.

 

[moo-cow]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Allow me to say that it's quite short sighted to 'forget' about someone with such a impact simply for breaking 3 rules, of which one is simply stupid and an other not important enough to remember. I'm not saying you should make him messiah or even profit, though from what I understand, you're just ignoring him while he did make some very good points.

he personally had no real impact on judaism. judaism is made up of many seemingly small rules like the two i mentioned. with the bread one he's following a rejected opinion, with the healing one, that one is a pretty big deal. not having ever read the christian bible but having studied the talmud for a while I'll go with those people who claim there is only the written torah having a much larger effect, both negatively then and positively in response in exile, that he did.

 

[Tanooki]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Is it an actual rule to not divinely heal someone on the Sabbath? Or is that considered "work", but following around a guy all day to see if he breaks the Sabbath isn't work, right?

The problem is that mercy was forced to take a backseat to letter-of-the-law perfectionism. You tell me who did more evil - a man who healed on the Sabbath, or the men who killed that man.

 

[Majaii]

Re: Do you believe in God?

In regards to the Christian bit, this is taken from Webster:




Main Entry:
1Chris·tian Listen to the pronunciation of 1Christian
Pronunciation:
\?kris-ch?n, ?krish-\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Latin christianus, adjective & noun, from Greek christianos, from Christos
Date:
1526

1 a: one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ b (1): disciple 2 (2): a member of one of the Churches of Christ separating from the Disciples of Christ in 1906 (3): a member of the Christian denomination having part in the union of the United Church of Christ concluded in 1961
2: the hero in Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress


I think the confusion lies in that I and many others look to #1 (a) as a definition of a Christian, while yet others look to the rest of #1 as the definition.

Since it was stated that all Modern Dominations stem from Catholics, Mormons do not.

The word Christians was not used in the time of Christ, it was used much later. Those who believed in Christ when he was on the Earth were called his disciples.

 

[buttershug]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Since it was stated that all Modern Dominations stem from Catholics, Mormons do not.

And what religion was Joeseph Smith raised with?
And how is that not stemmed from Catholics?

As for the deity status of Jesus, perhaps the Catholics were the first to realize it, but there's plenty of scripture for anyone today to come to that conclusion on their own. I personally rely on none of the Catholic traditions that aren't found in the Bible.
Communion - yes
Baptism - yes
Confessing to a priest for forgiveness - no
Last Rites - no

But Catholics wrote scripture?
What if they got it wrong?

You do realize that the Bible is a book of the Church of Rome, not the Church of Jeruselem?

 

[Majaii]

Re: Do you believe in God?

And what religion was Joeseph Smith raised with?
And how is that not stemmed from Catholics?

Joseph Smith was raised with the bible, his mother was a Presbyterian, and she joined that church when he was 12. He didn't join any churches, although he was considering Methodists. To qoute:

5 Some time in the second year after our removal to Manchester, there was in the place where we lived an unusual excitement on the subject of religion. It commenced with the Methodists, but soon became general among all the sects in that region of country. Indeed, the whole district of country seemed affected by it, and great multitudes united themselves to the different religious parties, which created no small stir and division amongst the people, some crying, “Lo, here!” and others, “Lo, there!” Some were contending for the Methodist faith, some for the Presbyterian, and some for the Baptist.
6 For, notwithstanding the great love which the converts to these different faiths expressed at the time of their conversion, and the great zeal manifested by the respective clergy, who were active in getting up and promoting this extraordinary scene of religious feeling, in order to have everybody converted, as they were pleased to call it, let them join what sect they pleased; yet when the converts began to file off, some to one party and some to another, it was seen that the seemingly good feelings of both the priests and the converts were more pretended than real; for a scene of great confusion and bad feeling ensued—priest contending against priest, and convert against convert; so that all their good feelings one for another, if they ever had any, were entirely lost in a strife of words and a contest about opinions.
7 I was at this time in my fifteenth year. My father’s family was proselyted to the Presbyterian faith, and four of them joined that church, namely, my mother, Lucy; my brothers Hyrum and Samuel Harrison; and my sister Sophronia.
8 During this time of great excitement my mind was called up to serious reflection and great uneasiness; but though my feelings were deep and often poignant, still I kept myself aloof from all these parties, though I attended their several meetings as often as occasion would permit. In process of time my mind became somewhat partial to the Methodist sect, and I felt some desire to be united with them; but so great were the confusion and strife among the different denominations, that it was impossible for a person young as I was, and so unacquainted with men and things, to come to any certain conclusion who was right and who was wrong.


Kinda reminds me of this thread actually lol

 

[buttershug]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Joseph Smith was raised with the bible, his mother was a Presbyterian, and she joined that church when he was 12. He didn't join any churches, although he was considering Methodists. To qoute:

The Bible was put together by the Church of Rome, and Presbyterians and Methodists are both descended from the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Majaii]

Re: Do you believe in God?

The Bible was put together by the Church of Rome, and Presbyterians and Methodists are both descended from the Roman Catholic Church.

You didn't read what I posted, but that's ok. Joseph Smith was not a member of those churches, they were merely part of a religious revival that caused him to search for the answers that led him to restore the church of Jesus Christ. There is no connection.

The bible does not come from Rome. The old Testament is from Jewish Prophets, and was written in Hebrew. The New Testament is from the apostles and disciples of Christ, and was written in Greek and maybe some Aramaic. It has been translated many different times, and the first time it was translated into English was by John Wycliffe, who was a catholic dissident and translated the NT directly from the Latin Vulgate.

He was followed by William Tyndale, who was the first to make a translation directly from the Hebrew and Greek. He was executed for heresy, but then when King James gathered his 54 scholars in 1607 from the universities they used a lot of his work, as well as some that Miles Coverdale and others had done. The Authorized Version, or King James version was then published in 1611, which is the Bible that I use.

While there certainly was work done on the bible by catholics, or the church of Rome as you call it, it does not originate from them. There has been many contributions made, and while I feel there are translating errors etc... I am still very grateful for all the work that was done so that we can have the bible today.

 

[Spinns]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Edit and the Christians around the time of Christ and shortly after did not believe he was the Son of God.

There are plenty of scripture referring to Jesus as being the son of God you don't need the Catholics to tell you that

And I'm Pentecostal My church derives from the day of Pentecost and yes maybe my church did derive from the Catholic church it still doesn't make all of what they teach right and it doesn't mean they should hold the sole title of Christian, a Christian is someone who believes that Jesus is the saviour of the world, God's one and only son and God himself, they are people who believe that through his death and resurrection and through our repentance we can receive forgiveness for our sins and have eternal life

A bit off topic what denomination are you Tanooki?

 

[stillman]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Religous thoughts come from activity in the temporal lobes of the brain. There are conditions that arise from tumors and abnormalities in these areas. Preoccupation with religion is a symptom of temporal lobe disorder. H.H. was a successful corporate lawyer. But one day, he is found wearing a robe, head shaved, and handing out pamphlets promoting a new religous group he had joined. His family and friends report this is very uncharacteristic of H.H. who is atheist, and it was later discovered that he had a tumor in one of his temporal lobes.

There is also a condition where the patient spends all day crying tears of joy and reports feeling bliss and being 'at one with nature'. Tears pour down his face as he goes into yet another rampage of smiling radiantly. Again, evidence is found that these patients have abnormal activity in specific brain regions.

It has been found that autism, OCD, and sexuality each occur on a spectrum. We are all a little obsessive over a few things, but those with OCD suffer at the extreme end of the spectrum where they repeat daily rituals to the point where it ruins their lives. Likewise, we are all like H.H., but farther back on a spectrum. If H.H. did not have a particular condition, he would still be sitting in his office with no religous preoccupation whatsoever...and so would all of us if there was less activity in our temporal lobes.

Now, you could say that God made our temporal lobes that way, but then you would be digging yourself into a trap, for conditions where a person becomes the most preoccupied with religion involve cancers of the brain. So you would be saying God appreciates brain tumors or sees a cancerous brain as superior because this leads to greater devotion. Cancers can hardly be viewed as perfection as they often kill people early in life.

I'm sure many people in a particular religous group would see H.H. as a perfect follower. He is devoted, spreading the word, handing out pamphlets, being a true believer. Little do they know that Mr. Brown has had his life robbed from him by cancer. He loses his job from his total devotion to God, and his family loses the man they once knew.

Religion is basically a symptom, though fortunately, we don't all suffer equally from it. It's funny how we don't allow schizophrenics to stand on the street declairing their hallucinations are real, yet we allow religous people to declair publicly that thier Gods are real.

 

[Dondrei]

Re: Do you believe in God?

No they weren't the original Christians existed during and after the life of Christ and the word/religion of Catholicism appeared around 107 AD and and many Easter Orthodox churches refer to the Pope as the head of the Church and call themselves Catholic,

Catholicism is a broad term that refers to the body of the Catholic faith, its theologies and doctrines, its liturgical, ethical, spiritual, and behavioral characteristics, as well as a religious people as a whole.[1] In one sense, it refers to the Roman Catholic Church and the Christians living in communion with the Church of Rome.[2] In a broader sense, Catholicism is associated with any church, including Anglicanism, that claims continuity with the Catholic Church before separation into Greek or Eastern and Latin or Western.[3] Churches that make this claim of continuity include not only those of the Anglican Communion, but, among others, the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, and the Assyrian Church of the East.

Well yeah, of course they claim that. Although Lord knows why they'd want to be associated with the church they spent so long denouncing.

P.S. I never said they were the first Christians. Although they were pretty much the first church.

There's also a huge difference between a difference of interpretation and down right blasphemy

And if you ask a Catholic they'll say that what you believe in is blasphemy.

Well, not really, since most Catholics aren't nutcases these days.

The government was clever - it knew that if restrictions were placed on the Church people would rebel. So instead they granted the Church tax exception status - as long as they don't preach politics. The fear of losing that status keeps the Church right where the government wants it.

Keeping its nose out of politics?

Isn't that where everyone wants it?

I personally rely on none of the Catholic traditions that aren't found in the Bible.
Communion - yes
Baptism - yes
Confessing to a priest for forgiveness - no
Last Rites - no

Being pro-life...

Since it was stated that all Modern Dominations stem from Catholics, Mormons do not.

Just because they've added a whole heap of bat**** crazy stuff to it doesn't make them any less descended from Catholics than other Protestant denomination.

 

[Spinns]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Many people say its blasphemy because it is not based on biblical principle in fact they break the 2nd commandment strait up
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them;

They break this with the idolatry of the saints and Mary thus it is Blasphemy.

 

[wrsx]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Religous thoughts come from activity in the temporal lobes of the brain. There are conditions that arise from tumors and abnormalities in these areas. Preoccupation with religion is a symptom of temporal lobe disorder. H.H. was a successful corporate lawyer. But one day, he is found wearing a robe, head shaved, and handing out pamphlets promoting a new religous group he had joined. His family and friends report this is very uncharacteristic of H.H. who is atheist, and it was later discovered that he had a tumor in one of his temporal lobes.

There is also a condition where the patient spends all day crying tears of joy and reports feeling bliss and being 'at one with nature'. Tears pour down his face as he goes into yet another rampage of smiling radiantly. Again, evidence is found that these patients have abnormal activity in specific brain regions.

It has been found that autism, OCD, and sexuality each occur on a spectrum. We are all a little obsessive over a few things, but those with OCD suffer at the extreme end of the spectrum where they repeat daily rituals to the point where it ruins their lives. Likewise, we are all like H.H., but farther back on a spectrum. If H.H. did not have a particular condition, he would still be sitting in his office with no religous preoccupation whatsoever...and so would all of us if there was less activity in our temporal lobes.

Now, you could say that God made our temporal lobes that way, but then you would be digging yourself into a trap, for conditions where a person becomes the most preoccupied with religion involve cancers of the brain. So you would be saying God appreciates brain tumors or sees a cancerous brain as superior because this leads to greater devotion. Cancers can hardly be viewed as perfection as they often kill people early in life.

I'm sure many people in a particular religous group would see H.H. as a perfect follower. He is devoted, spreading the word, handing out pamphlets, being a true believer. Little do they know that Mr. Brown has had his life robbed from him by cancer. He loses his job from his total devotion to God, and his family loses the man they once knew.

Religion is basically a symptom, though fortunately, we don't all suffer equally from it. It's funny how we don't allow schizophrenics to stand on the street declairing their hallucinations are real, yet we allow religous people to declair publicly that thier Gods are real.

I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying religious practice is a disorder or disease within our temporal lobes? So are you basically implying that all religious persons are flawed in genetics vs. non-religious?

 

[krischan]

Re: Do you believe in God?

The bible does not come from Rome. The old Testament is from Jewish Prophets, and was written in Hebrew. The New Testament is from the apostles and disciples of Christ, and was written in Greek and maybe some Aramaic. It has been translated many different times, and the first time it was translated into English was by John Wycliffe, who was a catholic dissident and translated the NT directly from the Latin Vulgate.

The parts of the bible don't come from Rome, of course, but the bible is a compilation, a selection of texts, not a complete collection. There were more texts about Jesus and his apostles, but not all of them made it into the bible.

 

[BobCox2]

Re: Do you believe in God?

The parts of the bible don't come from Rome, of course, but the bible is a compilation, a selection of texts, not a complete collection. There were more texts about Jesus and his apostles, but not all of them made it into the bible.

Still they all agree...
God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks, please. Cash and in small bills.

 

[Felix]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Why aren't they Christians then ? Who says that ? And who says that they were not the first Christians ? The Roman Catholic church says that it was founded by Jesus himself who said that he will build his church on Petrus who was the first bishop of Rome.

Just so you know, I'm not a Catholic and I'm not even particularly religious.

A Christian is someone who talks about Christ all the time. Henceforth the name which came to be as a mockery of this situation. The same way the Greeks named foreigners Barbarians because they heard their language as a barbarbar.

The idea of dividing believers of Christ into separate groups is in err, as the apostles very clearly state. As Paul puts it, loosely from rememberance; Was it Paul that rose from the grave, was it Peter?

Now as protestants have to critisize the catholic church for, is holding on to theological misinterpretations while at the same time calling patent on the faith.

Some of these things are: Peter was a married man, yet catholic priests can't marry. Peter was the apostle of the jews, nothing hints to him ever being in Rome. Paul was the one who went up into Europe.

The idea of a pope as i direct standin for God himself is very wrong interpretation of Christianity to many believers outside the catholic church.

In new testament one man shouts; blessed is the one who carried you, and Jesus responds; blessed is anyone who's name is written in the book of life. So Virgin Mary is a human being who will receive salvation, not by any means a divine being as she is a human saved from the fire like the rest of the holy. And thus the idea of praying to her is very mistakenly in the eyes of those who see this as a wrongdoing.

Jesus says to Peter (Petrus meaning rock, so a play on words); You are the rock upon which I will build my church. Jesus also states; I give you the keys to the heavens. What you tie here on earth shall be tied in heaven. And what you set free here on earth shall be set free in heaven.

By claiming Peter as their patent the Pope claims right to these responsibilities. It is also by this the pope seat again and again in history have spewn out anathemas left and right. And promised salvation for gold too back in the day. Actions that lead to protestantism (And reading the bible for yourself!).

By all measures the most "correct" theology of today is not from the pope seat, it is from protestantism. But again, the virtues of the Lord are defended with most vigor by the Roman church, in a time where the protestants in many ways seem to be throwing belief away as they make their own rules (*** marriage, abortion, all the stuff you don't start talking about at your Boss' dinner party).

But the Christian is the one who talks about Christ and tells you Jesus is the living Son of God. Thus the Muslim God have nothing in common with christianity and the God of Jesus Christ, which by his words and by his actions, by his father in heaven, have made me come to believe in him and only him as the Lord.