Do you believe in God?

[Ash Housewares]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Believing that your consciousness lives on after death, and that your actions in life have repercussions in the forever is a powerful comfort.

yea but knowing its bull **** kind of has the opposite effect

 

[WildBerry]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Believing that your consciousness lives on after death, and that your actions in life have repercussions in the forever is a powerful comfort.

I'm not so sure about that. The same folks often have an unshaking belief in that their actions, no matter what they are, cannot save them - that the whatever fate they have is out of their hands. That's, you know, why they're kind of gloomy.

But I'm happy you see it that way.

 

[SaroDarksbane]

Re: Do you believe in God?

I'm not so sure about that. The same folks often have an unshaking belief in that their actions, no matter what they are, cannot save them - that the whatever fate they have is out of their hands. That's, you know, why they're kind of gloomy.

But I'm happy you see it that way.

As a person who believed until his early twenties that his soul was eternal, and that dead loved ones would be seen again in the afterlife, I can tell you first hand the horror of the realization when it finally hit me.

I wouldn't wish it on anyone. That's part of the reason I don't generally try to talk people out of their beliefs.

 

[KillerAim]

Re: Do you believe in God?

SaroDarksbane:

Believing that your consciousness lives on after death, and that your actions in life have repercussions in the forever is a powerful comfort.

QFT. I would also add that believing that what happens in life serves some purpose plus the idea that you might be able to gain some control over what happens in life by asking for the help of the person or persons in charge is also a comfort.

 

[Tanooki]

Re: Do you believe in God?

You do realize that your belief that there is no eternal soul is just that - a belief. It's no more "proven" than the idea that there is an eternal soul.

You choose what you believe.

 

[BlueDogAnchorite]

Re: Do you believe in God?

I've never been able to bring myself to believe in a soul, cos we become different people every second of the day.

 

[sike]

Re: Do you believe in God?

I've never been able to bring myself to believe in a soul, cos we become different people every second of the day.

- I believe; and when i feel the God(s) in myself i'll believe in him/them also.. so far that second didn't happened but it will, probably :-()

- Can't wait to walk throught Valley of Death whistling with smile.. :whistling:

 

[SaroDarksbane]

Re: Do you believe in God?

You do realize that your belief that there is no eternal soul is just that - a belief. It's no more "proven" than the idea that there is an eternal soul.

Hence why I consider myself an agnostic an not an atheist. I can't definitively rule out the existance of God and/or an eternal soul.

You choose what you believe.

It isn't that simple.

 

[Ash Housewares]

Re: Do you believe in God?

It isn't that simple.

yea, I like religion, its too bad I find it too ridiculous to believe, I can't just choose to ignore the things that make no sense - well I'm Catholic raised and thats sort of what we do, ignore the nonsense parts, but that can only go so far

 

[Nazdakka]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Hence why I consider myself an agnostic an not an atheist. I can't definitively rule out the existance of God and/or an eternal soul.

Same here. To my mind, saying that there is no God is unprovable as saying that there is one. So I live with something along the lines of 'I see no reason to believe that there is a god'. Technically agnostic, I suppose.

I suspect there aren't many people who hold the 'strong' atheist position (this makes the statement 'I am certain that there is no god'), for exactly this reason. The word 'atheist' is little awkward, because to many people it represents the view that Tanooki and many other religious people ascribe to it - an positive assertion that there is no god. Other people would use it to cover my position, which is a negative one. The trouble is that 'agnostic' covers a very large amount of territory, and 'athiest' is often used to cover one end of it, without too much regard for the nuances.

 

[Dondrei]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Believing that your consciousness lives on after death, and that your actions in life have repercussions in the forever is a powerful comfort.

It's the real reason religion exists. It tells people something they want to hear, things they'd like to be true.

Also kind of encourages complacency though. If you believe that this is all there is and you don't get second chances, pre-established meanings to everything or magical help via prayer then you're strongly motivated to make your life count, treasure what you have while you have it and do things for yourself.

Not to mention find/make a meaning to it all for yourself. Instead of thinking life is one giant surprise party where any minute everyone's going to spring up from behind the furniture and it'll all be explained to you.

 

[KillerAim]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Dondrei:

Also kind of encourages complacency though. If you believe that this is all there is and you don't get second chances, pre-established meanings to everything or magical help via prayer then you're strongly motivated to make your life count, treasure what you have while you have it and do things for yourself.

Or it can lead to a belief that there is no such thing as right or wrong and that there are no consequences to any 'bad' action unless you get caught.

 

[stillman]

Re: Do you believe in God?

^ I have to disagree with that. People with normal healthy brains have a sense of what is right and wrong. For example, murder is a crime in all countries of the world. This strong, worldwide value is based on the healthy brain and how it opperates.

Sure, some people who are atheists may not have a sense of right and wrong, but some religous people do things that are terribly wrong and justify their wrong actions with their religion.

I don't think the lack of religous values 'leads' to anything like losing one's sense of right and wrong.

 

[Dondrei]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Dondrei:

Or it can lead to a belief that there is no such thing as right or wrong and that there are no consequences to any 'bad' action unless you get caught.

Worldly punishment seems a much better deterrent than some vague threat of ethereal punishment in seventy years though. If you don't fear the former I don't see why you'd fear the latter.

 

[SaroDarksbane]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Or it can lead to a belief that there is no such thing as right or wrong and that there are no consequences to any 'bad' action unless you get caught.

Worldly punishment seems a much better deterrent than some vague threat of ethereal punishment in seventy years though. If you don't fear the former I don't see why you'd fear the latter.

Not performing a bad action only because you might be punished for it later (materially, or immaterially) doesn't say much about the character of the person involved, does it?

Personally, it would be a stronger argument for religion if you could prove it made people want to be good regardless of potential consequences (which the traditional justice system doesn't do). But as Dondrei points out, if all you want to do is deter bad behavior with the threat of retribution, ye olde court of law will do that for you.

 

[KillerAim]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Worldly punishment seems a much better deterrent than some vague threat of ethereal punishment in seventy years though. If you don't fear the former I don't see why you'd fear the latter.

But as Dondrei points out, if all you want to do is deter bad behavior with the threat of retribution, ye olde court of law will do that for you.

Ah, but both are you are forgetting that omniscience is an attribute of God for most people in the United States. If you are a true believer, then you know you WILL be punished for your transgressions no matter if no one else knows you did them and no matter how insulated you are from the wrath of others or the authorities.

Personally, it would be a stronger argument for religion if you could prove it made people want to be good regardless of potential consequences (which the traditional justice system doesn't do).

To me, the reason why someone doesn't hurt me or steal my stuff is almost meaningless. I don't care if he follows the libertarian philosophy, is afraid of getting caught and punished by the authorities, or if he fears the punishment of an all-knowing supreme being in the after-life; as long as he leaves people and their property alone.

 

[Johnny]

Re: Do you believe in God?

The problem will always be that for every religious figure that says you go to heaven for being good there are ten that says you go to hell for being *** or for not killing certain people.


If hell is such a powerful punishment then why do we need to punish all the sinners in life when they go to hell anyway?

Meanwhile we we are handing out all these punishments in life followed by punishments in the afterlife, how about religion starts handing out some rewards in life instead of just in the afterlife?

 

[SaroDarksbane]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Ah, but both are you are forgetting that omniscience is an attribute of God for most people in the United States. If you are a true believer, then you know you WILL be punished for your transgressions no matter if no one else knows you did them and no matter how insulated you are from the wrath of others or the authorities.

And yet "true believers" still do terrible things all the time.

To me, the reason why someone doesn't hurt me or steal my stuff is almost meaningless. I don't care if he follows the libertarian philosophy, is afraid of getting caught and punished by the authorities, or if he fears the punishment of an all-knowing supreme being in the after-life; as long as he leaves people and their property alone.

That's all well and good for any given stranger on the street, but as far as the people I choose to be around (friends) go, I'd rather choose someone who had true strength of character over a mere fear of punishment.

 

[PFSS]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Or it can lead to a belief that there is no such thing as right or wrong and that there are no consequences to any 'bad' action unless you get caught.

Is there any evidence that more religious people are less likely to rape/murder than non-religious people in the same position?

And on the same line as others have said - if someone states that the reason they are not a rapist/murderer is because they fear punishment (either in this life or the next) then I don't want to be associated with that person.

 

[stillman]

Re: Do you believe in God?

"If you are a true believer, then you know you WILL be punished for your transgressions no matter if no one else knows you did them... "

But KillerAim, here is what I don't get...the general belief is that you either: A- don't get punished because you were good, so you go to Heaven. Or, B- you get punished because you were bad, so you go to Hell.

So let's say someone steals from you. I don't see how they can get punished for it. If God sends them to hell, well, that's awefully serious punishment for stealing a TV set from you...being sent to hell with rapists, mass murderes, etc. Or, situation 2: the guy only stole a TV from you, no biggie, he goes to Heaven. Therefore, he's not really punished, is he?

Both systems don't make any sense. Another example: Bethovan (spelling?) made wonderful music that filled peoples' hearts with joy. So he goes to Heaven. Oh wait...he was also a raging scoundrel and overall jerk to the people he lived with. He yelled and spit at them. So he goes to hell.

The only way to fix this problem is if there is some sort of incremtal system where you actually get punished. And, I don't see how it's punishment with God saying, "You were bad, see you stole someone's TV, but I forgive you, so it's Heaven for you."

What do you propose the punishment is for little acts of theft and such? Does this mean we don't get to be generals in God's army and we are stuck down there at rank of private in the Kingdom of Heaven? Well if that's the case, then it's going to be whoever is poor on Earth gets punished because it's mostly poor folks who end up stealing, either out of necessity or poor upbringing by their poor parents. Punishing those who were born into poor families is a system that doesn't seem to make sense either....