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Do Avengers survive well for HC?

Discussion in 'Hardcore' started by The One Winged Angel, Mar 9, 2004.

  1. The One Winged Angel

    The One Winged Angel IncGamers Member

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    Do Avengers survive well for HC?

    In other words, what, specifically, do I need to watch except the obvious (crowds, Nihlathak, boss special attacks, death throws).

    Do I have to worry about Iron Maiden if I'm almost totally elemental damage? This is ladder and I wil be getting my equipment from scratch, by the way.
     
  2. himeji

    himeji IncGamers Member

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    You have to watch yourself :lol: Seriously, my pally dealt most of the time 1 ko hits with even a mediocre weapon, and got overconfident and so died while handling 2 monster packs at the same time (in late nm).

    I don't trust im, even with this build, so i partied up for chaos sanc and used a bow for the ok mages. I would say the biggest danger are the cursed monster packs, with extra strong mod.
     
  3. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    No pally build is invincable, they are all on the edge of death. They are the only "tanking" build that has no minion or escape skill and no life modifier.

    With that said, an Avenger can still do very well but you just have to play him well.

    IM is a major issue if you choose a might merc, or party with people with might mercs or other damage aruras. The "safety" of vengances is it is a one hit attack and greatly elemental so in most cases its going to take 3-5 hits for you to kill yourself with Vengance, but it is still doable especially if you are in a pack and taking damage also.

    The good and the bad part of the Avenger is that when you are paried I doubt you have to kill much of anything even if you run around like mad trying to IM yourself to death the casters kill them so fast it may not be possible since your Convic is soo good (yes it is exagerated but not as much as you might think!).

    Go for the build, its a fun build, not a simple one and very party friendly!

    IMO Might is the way to go simply to help your leach and he is very effective with your arura. Holy Freeze of course is a good option also as well as maybe a Barb or maybe a mage or even a Rouge iwth a good fast bow. It is still hard not to go with the Act 2 guys though.
     
  4. Prez

    Prez IncGamers Member

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    I just finished building an Avenger Pally and playing through hell with him. Some of my thoughts:
    1. Conviction is great for party play. So if you play in a Party with casters, you will not be getting many kills.
    2. Conviction brings everythings defense down to almost nothing. So don't worry much about putting pts in dex.
    3. Max Holy Shield. Make sure you have max block.
    4. Veangence elemental dmg is based on your physical dmg. So unlike a Tesladin that can use a cracked short sword and still kill in hell, you are going to need a high dmg weapon.
    5. As mentioned previously, you have very few ways of dealing with crowds. So hit and run tactics are in order if you play solo.
    6. Your merc is your friend, use a might merc. The extra dmg is needed to kill in hell.
    7. IM still kills. Since you want a big weapon to pump dmg, the physical part is substantial. So areas with Obsidian Mages are going to be a problem since you have no means of dealing with them.

    Overall its fun build that can kill adequetly, not a super duper fast killer. Great party character. Needs good equipment to be effective in late hell.

    Prez
     
  5. CoonerTheRed

    CoonerTheRed IncGamers Member

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    he's not kidding at all... one of the biggest problems i had with my convic pali was that my merc never leveled... he couldn't kill fast enough and i could barely get to a group before convic had kicked in and sorces had killed everything... (of course this was only in larger parties :D )
     
  6. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir IncGamers Member

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    I have always played barb and thought they were the most item dependand character in d2.

    Until i made an avenger.

    My avenger did not have good items, all items were mediocre.
    I had about 900 life
    max block
    6-7k defence
    max resists
    no damage reduction

    this was not enough for hell. I am sure with good items he can be survivable, but without them just sucks.
    The damage is pretty ok, over 3k with baranars and its doubled by conviction.

    Yeah, IM still is dangerous. Other than that, just the things that are dangerous for everybode (souls) always use thundergods (or wisp projector?) when meeting souls.

    Mine is a lvl 73 mule now.

    edit: oh ya as said above, concviction is the best thing you can ever do to a party. everything baal spawns dies as soon as it hits the ground (except for his minnions who live a few seconds)

    edit2: as opposed to above poster, i would go for defiance merc. The damage from might is relatively low since you have a huge multiplier already and the physical is not multiplied (total benefit will be less than 10% of total damage)
    I thing defiance is a merc well suited for paladins anyway. defence is a pala's best friend. My defiance merc was close to immortal :) He was better at tanking NM baals minnions than my paladin.
     
  7. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    i dont know if he is all taht item dependent, but he is definetly weapon based and needs played according to gear. Full PDR can be played differently than no PDR obviously!

    Pallys are easy to get good block with, max is nice but not a must. They are also easy to get good rez with, allowing for easy use of PDR and absorbs.

    mine isnt retired but i havent ran him much as it seems everything dies before I get there thus making him more party firnedly than Stinger friendly! i dont mind making ppl kill better, but man I need to hit something to have some fun, or at least know my minions are like with a Nerco.

    Get with some melee groups and not intensive elemental ones though and he is a blast. ***** is, how many baal runs actually run without a sorc? Not many, most ownt run wihtotu someone teleporting........freaking bums!
     
  8. PhatTrumpet

    PhatTrumpet IncGamers Member

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    Just a couple different takes on the Avenger strategy:
    I was lucky enough to shop a wand with charges of lvl 5 Confuse. I have this on switch and it helps a whole lot with larger monster packs.
    I'll have to throw in a vote for Holy Freeze. Might will boost your physical dmg substantially and help you leach, but it'll also make you a glass cannon around Oblivion Knights (Might %ed on a high lvl Merc can get close to 400% iirc). It's a matter of preference really. I'd rather be safer with Holy Freeze, drink a couple pots, finish off the battle, then switch on Redemption to regain all my mana and life. This way I don't have to worry about leach gear and can focus on resists and life and such (allows me to wear Shako instead of, say, Tal's Mask, for instance).
    Again, if you go with Holy Freeze or Defiance this is almost a non-issue, as your physical dmg is essentially only your base weapon dmg multiplied by ( 1 + str/100 ).
     
  9. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir IncGamers Member

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    Also against the might merc an LL i want to add:

    LL is severly reduced with 1.10.

    your physical damage is low anyways, so is the LL.

    together that means even with might, your LL is not worth it. just dont go for LL equip, use defiance of holy freeze, dont get hit and drink a potion now and then.
     
  10. The One Winged Angel

    The One Winged Angel IncGamers Member

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    How can I compensate for leech then?
     
  11. Zarfol

    Zarfol IncGamers Member

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    keep redemption on a hot key, there is a < 1 sec delay before it takes the first corpse and that usually fills the red up a little.

    I like the avenger because the single resist auras... with 1 pt in vengaence. The aura's give 10% damage to their element respectively and the bonus to the max resist helps me live alot. And that keeps the mana usage very low for veng.
     
  12. PhatTrumpet

    PhatTrumpet IncGamers Member

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    Read my first post if you haven't already.

    And good point about the single resist auras. I opted to place 10 pts in each, bringing my max resists up to 80, then maxing Vengeance (still in the process of doing that). Keeps the mana cost down until you have a hefty pool to feed from at higher lvls.
     

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