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Disciplining children

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by MadMachine, Sep 28, 2006.

  1. MadMachine

    MadMachine IncGamers Member

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    Disciplining children

    I'm currently editing a decision sent in by the Ontario Superior Court of Justice in relation to the Farah Khan case and I came across an interesting bit of information from Canada's Criminal Code:

    My interpretation of this is that corporal punishment by parents, guardians and even schoolteachers is protected by the Criminal Code. As long as you don't... y'know break any bones.

    *swings around a bag of oranges*

    What do people think of the topic in general?
     
  2. PlagueBearer

    PlagueBearer IncGamers Member

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    If my teachers could have hit me they would have, and just for fun too. My fourth/fifth grade teacher was a sadistic b*tch. She made me cry regularly, seemingly just because she figured out that she could.
     
  3. bladesyz

    bladesyz IncGamers Member

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    There's nothing wrong with corporal punishment, as long as it doesn't turn into abuse. Of course, using it too much as problems of its own, but used in moderation, it's a good way to teach a child limits.
     
  4. superdave

    superdave IncGamers Member

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    DO YOU WANT ME TO TAKE OFF MY BELT? my old man used to yell that at us when we were kids...i once made the mistake of pointing out what a stupid question that was...never again...correct answer from that day on was always "NO SIR".
     
  5. nosoup4crr

    nosoup4crr IncGamers Member

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    I'd have to disagree on your interpretation. Being that what a "reasonable person" would do is a question of fact, and for the jury to decide, it is likely that they would take into mind the current social trend in regard to pysical punishment--and that is that it's undesireable if not outrageous, particularly when thinking about that punishment being dished out by a 3rd party. Would you want a babysitter or teacher using their own discretion as to how to physically punish your child? no? You're probably not alone.
     
  6. HockeyChic

    HockeyChic Banned

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    I'm kinda with you on that one. Anyone lays a hand on my kid had better be prepared. I won't tolerate that. Although, if my mother chose to spank one of my kids I likely wouldn't argue, they'd have it coming if they pushed her that far. She's pretty much the only one that could get away with it.
     
  7. MadMachine

    MadMachine IncGamers Member

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    I'm not sure if a babysitter completely fulfills the definition of "a person standing in place of a parent". Interesting concept though.

    I think the real problem is what people think is "force that exceeds the circumstances."

    Honestly, there are some kids that are just born bad and treat everyone like crap. I'd be a horrible teacher, especially if kids talk back to me the way my classmates did when I was in HS.
     
  8. Amra

    Amra IncGamers Member

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    "what is reasonable under the circumstances"

    Lots of leeway there.

    I don't have kids so I am not really qualified to answer. That said, it seems reason rather than fear is a better tactic.
     
  9. MadMachine

    MadMachine IncGamers Member

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    Oh, neither do I, but my wife and I are trying and I'm looking ahead.

    I do agree that fear is better than action. My dad told me that his dad just had to make a motion to take off his belt and he'd shut it.

    One time when he actually carried the punishment out, he set him against the stairs and whacked the belt against the stairs next to him. My dad was so freaked out he actually thought he was being hit.

    But I think that circumstances have changed considerably since then.
     
  10. Dutchman

    Dutchman IncGamers Member

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    I got the old stalwart "counting to 3" from my father when it punishment time. He got to three once (fortunately for brother), and NEVER again. At 1, rarely 2, we would be running to him to accept punishment lite rather than risk full blown biblical wrath :tongue:

    Dutch
     
  11. HockeyChic

    HockeyChic Banned

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    My dad never once laid a hand, belt or anything else for that matter on me. He had "The Look" down to a science. My mother was a "Weapon of Choice" kind of gal. Basically whatever was closest to her, and would not to great bodily harm, could be used. I simply wish I could achieve "The Look". Not one of our 3 girls are the least bit afraid of the wrath of the Mommy. Our son rarely puts himself in the position to be punished, but when it actually happens, he's terrified.
     
  12. Dutchman

    Dutchman IncGamers Member

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    To elaborate a bit on the concept of reason, this is the best approach in my opinion but it is rarely effective with toddlers, they aren't mentally equipped to understand it yet.

    Nothing wrong with a healthy does of fear, preferably not carried out physically (though that is sometimes necessary too). As far as I'm concerned a child being afraid of their parent when they know they have misbehaved is better than using emotional blackmail on a child that age, which seems to be the preferred approach these days.

    Daddy is mad, sad, dissapointed, etc, makes a child feel miserable, but the reasons why they don't necessarily understand. A spanking is easier to equate for a child to the behaviour that resulted in it than Daddy is mad.

    I'm not expressing this well, but a child figures out pretty quick that I did X, I got a spanking, I won't do X again. "daddy is upset" leaves them trying to understand what Daddy is feeling, and the context of why can get lost. A 3 year old simply doesn't think along those lines yet.

    Anyway, this isn't coming out clearly, but hopefully folks will get what I'm talking about.

    Dutch
     
  13. Stompwampa

    Stompwampa IncGamers Member

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    Punishing kids by hitting/spanking them only teached them that it's OK for them to hit people to get what they want:
    "Daddy wants me to come in for supper, but I want to stay out and play, I didn't come in, so he hit me accross the butt."
    "Well, Suzie won't let me play with her dolly, so I'm going to hit her so she gives it to me."

    I know it's a little more comples than that, but everything I've every learned about psychology and behavior points against using corporal punishment on children. There are far more effective ways to keep your childrens' behavior in line.


    The thing about punishment though; be it a spanking, time out, or getting grounded, punishment must always be swift, sufficienlty severe and certain.

    Which means punishment needs to take place immediatley following an undesirable action. If your kid gets into mommy's makeup and cover's herself in it, then she goes and plays in her room for a bit, then grabs her teddy bear and comes to see you, and you look at her and say "No Sally! That's naughty! " and then give her a spanking, she's not going to know what she's being spanked for.
    Even if the kid is old enough to understand what you're telling them, psychologically, it still doesn't work, generally speaking, that is.
    Also, if the punishment isn't suffiecently sever, then the kid has no reason to not do the same thing again. If you catch little Johnny in your your closet playing with daddy's shotgun, and just say "No JOhnny!" and give him a slap on the wrist, what's supposed to stop him from going back in there when he tells his friend about daddy's cool toy?
    Finally, punishment must be certain. Which means it must always occur. The same punishment for the same crime, always. If you punish your kid for swearing one time, and then not the next time, they aren't going to understand what the rules are and where the boundaries sit.
     
  14. AeroJonesy

    AeroJonesy IncGamers Member

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    What year are you in law school?
     
  15. HockeyChic

    HockeyChic Banned

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    I think you did an excellent job of explaining it.
    We have age issues with ours--The oldest is 11 and everyone says she's far too old to be spanked. I agree, but I have to find out what works in its stead.
    7 yr old son, rarely in trouble, no worries.
    5 yr old girl, temper like nothing else on this planet and nothing works. We're at a loss.
    22 month old girl, too young for actual spankins, not old enough to reason with.
     
  16. Dutchman

    Dutchman IncGamers Member

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    Such as Dr Wampa? :laugh:

    Dutch
     
  17. HockeyChic

    HockeyChic Banned

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    @Stompwampa=How many kids do you have?

    Please oh please hand down your wisdom!!!!
     
  18. SaroDarksbane

    SaroDarksbane IncGamers Site Pal

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    Negative punishment is better than positive punishment, in most circumstances, but sometimes negative punishment can't be enforced like it needs to be, hence spankings.

    I consider spankings to be the last resort.
     
  19. AeroJonesy

    AeroJonesy IncGamers Member

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    I view it as this:

    Spankins are a way for the child to physically understand that his parents are disappointed him. They can say "we are disappointed" all they want, but it may not sink in. Getting a swat or two shows it.
     
  20. Dutchman

    Dutchman IncGamers Member

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    I wholeheartedly agree. Sometimes necessary, but avoided as much as is possible.

    Dutch
     

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