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Dilemma :rolleyes:

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by gibsonSG, Jun 30, 2005.

  1. gibsonSG

    gibsonSG IncGamers Member

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    Dilemma :rolleyes:

    I have a bit of a dilemma here. I'm basically following the meteorb guide that was posted here by sasja. Unfortunately, I'm like level 63 or something, and I have some 200-odd unused stat points. Here's the stats without items:

    Strength: 95
    Dexterity: base (25?)
    Vitality: base (10?)
    Mana: base (35?)

    Most guides say "enough strength for gear, and the rest into vitality." Some also say you can put points into dexterity and go for max block. I intend to use this sorceress for MF, solo/group hell (baal runs I suppose), rushing, and potentially PvP. My dilemma is this: should I put in points for max block? According to the meteorb guide, at level 99 you need 235 dexterity for max block (or something like that). Some people say it's best to just pump vitality and ignore block. But for what I want to do with this character (see above), which is the best option: max block...or overload on vitality? Also, is 95 base strength too much? 95 is the bare minimum for war travelers from what I read. War Travelers (at least I still think) are the best MF boots, so is that the minimum strength I want? Part of this would be helped by answering another part of my question--if I want to be able to PvP as well as the other things listed, have I already pretty much pissed away points into strength that I could have used in vitality? I guess stormshield is usually the preferred PvP shield...but at 95 strength, I might have to put a few more into strength to get the stormshield's requirements :confused: .

    ...am I asking to do too much with what I'm looking for in a character, or is this fathomable, and within the realm of possibility?

    Thanks.
     
  2. MapleBarb

    MapleBarb IncGamers Member

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    re strength: tuff to say what the "magic" number is (imo) without knowing what equipment you'll be using. What I would do if I was you would be to add all the points you get from your equip. Because just because you dont start out with a lot of strength doesnt mean you wont be able to get it from your equip. For example enigma is one that, specially if you get a bp you wont need much strength and still be able to equip ss. Also if you have anni that will help too. and some skillers have strength + in them

    In my latest sorc (litening) I went just for strength (enough for equip) and vita the rest. and I'm having a blast doing cow lvls :). I never thought a litening sorc could be this much fun
     
  3. lonnie913

    lonnie913 IncGamers Member

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    str REALLY depends on gear. if you dont have all your gear set up (if this is your first mf sorceress for example), then its best to hoard those points as long as possible until you find some endgame gear.

    i think for a meteorb sorceress, you definitely want max block. actually i think that for any sorceress you want max block, but thats b/c 1) i teleport rather aggressively and 2) i really really hate archers.

    the best non block shields are lidless wall, and spirit monarch.

    there are a lot of good blocking shields though:
    stormshield: a lot of defensive mods
    upgraded visceratuant: a good compromise, low requirements, +1 skill
    upgraded mosers: i love this shield. 2 sockets is great for diamonds or facets :lol:
    rhyme: in a minimum 40% block shield (for minimum 60% total) i use heater b/c i think tower and grim shield are really ugly. haha.
    whitstans guard: saves you the most dexterity, but i think the other shields are all better since they have other nice mods.

    you can get away with no block, but maxing block allows more aggressive play, and saves your skin quite often.

    as for your pvp asperations, you will probably have to build an entirely new character for serious pvp. most pvp characters are highly tuned, very specific, 1 target killing machines.
     
  4. Superhal

    Superhal IncGamers Member

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    if you wanted to save stat points, you should not have raised str at all until you found your endgame gear. usually, for pvp, people use crafted and rare rings, belts, and amulets that can have up to 20 str on them. sometimes, on the really expensive ones, you can find dex as well.

    imho, you should just use this char for mf (meteor itself is not a good pvp spell.) blocking is very good to have for any build that uses meteor.

    to that end, a basic setup is generally:
    156 str (minus whatever str equip you have)
    200 dex (plus whatever dex equip you have)
    rest vit
    base nrg

    i used to say go with 110 str, use tgods and a 26 str ammy to equip stormshield, which will then stay on. but now, because of spirit, i just say screwit and go with 156 str.
     
  5. gibsonSG

    gibsonSG IncGamers Member

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    Thanks...this helps. Except, usually when you go for a max-block type build...what shield do you adjust your dexterity for-Stormshield or something? I also read the recent thread of like...how much HP you lose if you put the points you'd have put into vitality into dexterity. Then again, if 75% of physical attacks are "blocked" then I suppose even if you loose a few hundred life from using less vitality...if an attack is blocked, then I guess it does 0 damage anyways-and if you have 1 life, if what would be a 10k damage attack does 0 because it's blocked, than I suppose it's better :D .


    Thanks.
     
  6. gohanthemystic

    gohanthemystic IncGamers Member

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    You also have to remember that sorceresses get the shaft when it comes to vita. I'll quote the meteor guide for that..

    And later
     
  7. gibsonSG

    gibsonSG IncGamers Member

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    Hmmm, I didn't see the last part of that in the guide, but yeah--I saw the first. If I'm going to MF with this character, chances are I'm eventually going to be using enigma, which with 95 base strength for war travelers gives me +10 to strength, and whatever enigma gives--which is more than enough for a stormshield (if I want to duel)...but what's a good sorceress MF shield--is it a runeword? I think pre-1.10 it was "rhyme" or something like that...any idea what "type" sorceresses would use (as long as it's above 60% block or whatever)? I really liked that statistics block that was in the meteorb guide--where it shows the block % based on level/shield. Oh yeah...and just a last quick thing--based on the strength I already have...it's not too much of a waste to attempt to make an enigma out of an archon plate, right? Archon plate strength=103, but 95+10 (from war travelers)=105, so I'm safe with the plate--an armour that gives decent defense, and is "light" so stamina isn't drained too much, or my IR/WS isn't dented too much.

    Thanks again!
     
  8. xeyloderixed

    xeyloderixed IncGamers Member

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    im making somewhat ridiculous assumptions here, for the sake of calculations.

    str requirements (if the items are strength bugged)
    starting sork str = 10
    annihilus = 20
    enigma on a (not archon, but elite and light; ill use dusk shroud in this example): assuming a lvl 80 char = 77 (dusk str req) - 60 (enigma str bonuses) = 17
    wartravs = 95 - 10 (str bonus on them) = 85
    stormshield (best shield for survibility imho) = 156 - 30 (str bonus on them) = 126
    shako = (negligible str req) - 2

    so lets add the str/str bonuses assuming you equip them as follows:
    equip annihilus = 30
    equip shako = 32
    str bug the enigma dusk = 92
    str bug the travs = 97
    so you would need 126-97 = 29 str from the rest of your items to go base str and still have enough to wear the above gear. you can do the following: equip tgods (20 str) and maras (5 str) and get 2x 2str scs with second mods and you can wear everything with base str. or alternatively, you can lvl up some more (because the calcs based above are for lvl 80 enigma user)
     
  9. gohanthemystic

    gohanthemystic IncGamers Member

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    Rhyme is still good for mf, atleast unless you have mad cash and can get a 4 isted monarch.

    Um, honestly, on all my sorceresses, i go 156 str base, then my equip doesn't have to go on in any certain order, then again, i play pally alot, so... i'm kinda wierd like that. Besides, like i said... get str and dex up and you shouldn't have to worry much about mana, i use storm when i can get it, and it does fine with me, the DR and blockrate really help with it all. Socket the storm with and eld for less investment in dex...
     
  10. gibsonSG

    gibsonSG IncGamers Member

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    ...that's insane-those really are "out-on-a-limb" assumptions. I think I'm fine with 95 for now hahaha :D .

    ...but what will fix my vitality problems? Even with max-block, when I get gang-raped by a pile of like...lancers or something (on hell) I just get destroyed. Maybe the better-gear thing will help. I assume my vitality worries will greatly slump once I get my hands on a harliquin crest (again...).


    Thanks
     
  11. xeyloderixed

    xeyloderixed IncGamers Member

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    ok, from your response, i assume you are "not so rich" :(

    let me just state clearly (before i get bashed ><) that i havent built the following sork yet. this is merely speculation:

    ive built a few orbers since season 1. theyve been my best telers, although they arent exactly the fastest characters. the mana is stable, life is decent, and the kill speed is passable.

    fast forward season 2. the only major difference between the two seasons, in regards to teleporting, is insight. with this, you can ditch the warmth/eshield/teleport/orb idea, in favor of a build thats faster but relies on a merk to teleport (choose your build, but blizz is best for the poor).

    now here comes the speculation part:
    my very first orber in season1 was my longest lasting sork, with this gear when she started mfing hell meff:

    spectral shard
    frostburns
    viper
    2x diamond mosers
    pcrown
    waterwalks
    tals belt
    2x bahamuts rings
    thrashy ammy (something like 20+res + a few life?)

    with the usual mf switch.

    the key to this build is the charms. i loaded her up with whatever janky charms i had at the moment (life charms of any size, mana gcs, single res+life charms any size). she reached 800/800 life/mana solely on the strength (or the wackiness -.-) of her inventory.

    now, she can infinite teleport (meaning, if thre are no monsters and you cast teleport, you will never run out of mana) without a merk, so i used a kelpie snare to slow down meff so i can actually orb him without him killing me. easy enough: just teleport on top of meff, and wait for *waheed* to hit him once.

    so, assuming the slow of kelpie snare and the speed of blizzard+iceblast is the same, then you should be able to kill meff with a setup just like the one i posted earlier (skillwise) with the items/stats i have here.

    i wouldnt try running meff with anything less than 600/600 on life mana. below that, you either run out of mana very fast, or any bad teleporting will kill you (tele on fana maulers). try to nm cow for charms before you hit hell; get as much life and mana as you can.
     
  12. gibsonSG

    gibsonSG IncGamers Member

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    Yeah...I used to be somewhat "wealthy" pre-1.10 though. I had sweet characters etc., then I stopped playing because of all the problems pre-1.10. It came out, then my brother got me hooked again, so I have to "start from scratch" more or less. I'm following the meteorb build as of now, as that seems to be the most plausable/practical/effecient build for my purposes. I guess I'm in that phase where I just need better gear to strengthen the character. I think I'll go the max-block route, as not-getting-hit by 3/4 of melee attacks (and arrows/ranged crap) sounds pretty enticing, and my character has to get kind of close to do more damage anyways. For the dexterity thing, would i want "235 (or whatever it is)" base, or should I factor in the gear. Mind you, if I use her for different things, she'll have a different dexterity level for MF gear as she will for like combat/rush/PvP gear. Oh well, I'm about level 73 or so in hell now...I think my build will be more or less "complete" come level ** or so...I might try to go to 90 just for the extra points--a few extra in cold mastery or warmth can't hurt. One more quick question (i'm not sure how much it relates to the forum though, but as long as I'm typing this all in one post, might as well ask)...is there anything you can find doing hell MF runs in the realm of unique/set items that have any trade value? Or is it pretty much just...kill as much **** as you can and hope you get some good rune drops :\.

    Thanks
     
  13. xeyloderixed

    xeyloderixed IncGamers Member

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    (1) dont actually put 235 in dex. for one thing, irrc 237 dex gives u max block for a lvl 99 character with a stormshield. well, i'm sure that (a) you will not get 99 anytime soon, and (b) you will find equipment that boosts dex.

    (2) meteorb is a strong choice. you can practically solo any area in the game with *waheed*, and both skills actually do nice damage. i personally have not tried a hybrid build (because of reasons stated above) but from what ive heard meteorb works quite well. id imagine nm was a breeze (a fully powered orb can get u to nm a5 easily enough.

    (3) i dont play scl, so i dont use my chars for pvp. i have the same exact gear for mfing and rushing, because i dont think just switching out all your gear to get that 1% (or 100) more mf is very practical: it makes your character a lot worse in so many ways. i'm fine with just 100 normal and ~250 with weapon switch.

    (4) again, i dont play scl, but what ive heard/if there is some parallel behavior in scl/hcl then skill charms are worth more than practically 99% of uniques.
     
  14. gibsonSG

    gibsonSG IncGamers Member

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    ...yeah nightmare was pretty damned easy. By scl you mean soft-core-ladder right? So if I get like 180 base dexterity or something like that, 2 ravenfrosts will easily get me to max blocking, right? (I forget what ravenfrost gives to dexterity, I thought they were like 20 each or something)


    ...and while I'm still on the post, as I said--I'm somewhat new to the 1.10 economy. I know that pretty much everything revolves around runes rather than stone of jordans. Is there a list somewhere that can give me a basic overview of what certain items/runes are "worth?"

    Thanks.
     
  15. Superhal

    Superhal IncGamers Member

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    the trade values forums has (usually instantly outdated) lists of prices for each realm.

    a basic rule of thumb is @400 life in hell, much higher if your other defenses (resists, absorbs, etc.) are low. i just ran through a sorc with base vit, close to 700 life through charms/harle/spirit shield.

    imho, don't worry about eq. make your character with the idea in mind that it will _get_ you good eq, not _need_ good eq just to play.

    you might want to try this even: make a 3 ptopz helm and 4 ptopz armor, and just run nm meph for a while. many good and useful items can be gotten, such as frostburns, magefists, and even occy. iirc, my first char this ladder was a pure blizz sorc, so i started with hell meph and skipped this step.

    another thing i did was take my crappy mf eq (empty socket ali baba, rhyme shield, etc.) and do mausoleum runs. none of them are cold immune.
     
  16. xeyloderixed

    xeyloderixed IncGamers Member

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    like hal said, dont try to make ur first char perfect. you can always rebuild anyway. just try to make it the best possible with AVAILABLE gear. that amount of dex only makes sense if you actually equip stormshield; for most other good blocking shields 180 (total, withut ravens) gives you max block at lvl99.
     
  17. Shaven Monkee

    Shaven Monkee IncGamers Member

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    My thoughts:

    Don't try to make the "all around sorc".

    If ya wanna PvP, you should follow a strictly PvP guide.
    If ya wanna rusher, this one will do fine, just slap on lots of FCR and absorb.
    If ya wanna MF'er this one will do great!

    To be fair you can do some light dueling but bringing a Meteorb sorc to a dueling game is like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

    I did kill a level 89 full-Aldurs Fury/Rabies Druid when I was level 45, but that took ALOT of teleporting and orbing and FB'n, not to mention a very stupid dueler at the controls of the druid.

    It was very unfun. IMHO, LLD (9-30) is where it is at for dueling. No cheesey tactics, no absorb etc.

    Anyhow, I would suggest go with max block, with whatever shield you choose to use. Taking only 1/4 of the hits that are thrown your way is a HUGE benefit.
    You will wish you had max block the first time you blunder into a mob of fast hitting freaks, like the super fast group of demons in the Chaos Sanctuary and you are dead. They will stun lock you and you will NEVER be able to escape and all that precious life will dwindle to 0 in no time, couple that with the fact that they blow fire as well, makes it doubly important to tele out of harms way as quickly as possible.
     

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