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Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this. ifr

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Falcord, Oct 27, 2010.

  1. Falcord

    Falcord Diabloii.Net Member

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    Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this.

    If I didn't make this post in the Suggestion sections it's because I suspect people at the Diablo III team have thought about this already, or that somebody as asked it before, or that there is information about it somewhere. The fact that I can't find such information anywhere is slightly worrying me because there is a remote possibility nobody considered this feature, and I think it would add a lot to the game!

    So my question is... Will we be able to have the same skill slotted, with a different rune on each slot?

    The game really NEEDS that. let me explain myself. I'm not saying I want to equip both Fire Toads and Giant toad to have a Giant Toad of Fire. What I mean is that it should be possible to have both Giant Toad and Fire Toad in the same character build.

    This opens a lot of customization without breaking any balance. For example, as it stands now you can make a Lightning Wizard and have the amazing possibility of turning your Hydra into a Lightning Hydra to complement your choice of build. But... What if I want to have a "Hydrawizard"?

    Cool, then just use 5 runes on Hydra alone so I can slot the 6 versions of Hydra and mix-match them! Put that together with some utility spells and you have a extremely personal build created within the boundaries of the game.

    Think of a toad-mancer, a throw-barb with the different throws we've been shown... And that's only off the top 3 or 4 skills that were showcased at the video. I sincerely hope this feature has been thought of.

    Okay, it would need to have some drawbacks coded in, or maybe become attainable through traits, but I find it really artificial that completely different skills (such as Fire toads and Giant Toad) can't be combined because they are so unlucky they belong to the same "parent" skill.

    So, Has it? Do you have any first-hand information about it? If it doesn't work this way, would you like it to happen?

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2010
  2. Moonfrost

    Moonfrost Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this.

    Nope. There needs to be some choice involved and having multiple runes in the same skills removed that.
     
  3. Yersinia Pestis

    Yersinia Pestis Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this.

    I really don't think and hope this is going to happen.

    As far as I know, the common thought is that we won't have enough skillpoints to max out all 7 skills. <- That's a good thing, you have to decide where your priorities are.

    So, if I can equip my primary offensive skill 2 times (of course I have maxed this skill) and put two different runes into it, one turning it AoE one making it a good single target spell, I have no more reason to get a second offensive skill (like if your 1st offensive skill was AoE your 2nd would be aingle target and vice versa).
    If the maximum skill level is 15 (or something else) I save 15 skillpoints which i can use to max my other 5 skills.

    I think this completely ruins balance and build viarity because you would be forced to at least assign one skill twice in order to compete.
     
  4. Falcord

    Falcord Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this.

    Well, in that case cap the max number of runes I can have, or make it only attainable through a trait, or give it some sort of drawback, but make it possible!

    I'm sure there is a way to balance it. I just can't believe that, for example, they're making so many awesome versions of a Toad spell and that they won't make a person who loves toads create a character that specializes in Toads.

    From a design perspective, that's the definition of a wasted resource.


     
  5. Falcord

    Falcord Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this.


    I get your point... Maybe limit it somehow. Like I said in the post before, make it possible through traits? Like "Skill specialization" trait that allows you to equip extra runes on a SINGLE skill? Or downgrading the skill level if you have multiple runes on one...


     
  6. Yersinia Pestis

    Yersinia Pestis Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this.

    I understand why you want it, but I really can't imagine it's going to happen anyhow. It WILL ruin balance.
    If you want to use different version of one skill you can replace your runes by time or make a new char ;)
     
  7. Dahmer

    Dahmer Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this.

    Why use any other hydra if you got a lightning hydra that never misses?
     
  8. Falcord

    Falcord Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this.

    That's like asking why I would want to have a throw barb when frenzy barbs are better.

    I'm not talking about min-maxing, but flavor and diversity. I think it's pretty cool you can take a specific concept and build around it.

    For example, out of the abilities released for the Demon Hunter, I like the Spike Trap a lot. A damn lot. I don't know in which way runes will change Spike Trap, but I know for sure I'd love to have all 6 available at any time and make a build around them. Hell, I wouldn't mind if I was only able to use the Traps and Vault, that would be a lot of fun to me.

    The code is there, it's just a matter of working out the right kind of drawbacks.

    Like this, concepts like "grenade-hunter", "trap-hunter", "Introduce-a-skillname-hunter" would start making sense and the 96 billion builds they were talking about would be more believable. The whole point of making skills is that you can combine them. I find it very artificial that substantially different skills (such as a giant toad and a rain of toads) can't be combined because they have the bad luck of belonging to the same "parent" skill. This needs to change.


     
  9. ManiaCCC

    ManiaCCC Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this.

    Just no with current system..

    But, if you would must choose the skill twice ..so you would have two slots filled with same skill but also you would level these skills separately so you just can't save skill points, I don't care. It could actually bring even more diversity into the game.
     
  10. Dahmer

    Dahmer Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this.

    Not really, throwing vs frenzy is a completely different concept.
    throwing = ranged
    frenzy = melee

    I understand building around different skills but taking two skills that are so much alike while one is much better makes no sense to me.



     
  11. Yersinia Pestis

    Yersinia Pestis Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this.

    That would be possible. Even if it feels kind of wron to me ... choosing the same skill twice. It's like "Damn, that Thousand Punder hit my head so hard, I forgot how to use that skill and have to learn it again!"

    Who out there wants to calculate the possible skill builds with beeing able to learn one skill twice? :D


     
  12. Ninyu

    Ninyu Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this.

    Because there is something that is going to balance that out. Whether it is a lower rate of fire, lower damage, or both.


     
  13. ManiaCCC

    ManiaCCC Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this.

    I know it feels a bit whacky .. but how else make this system not exploitable?

    And TBH, It wouldn't be bad system. .Frost Hydra which would hold monsters at place and big Fire hydra which would burn them with Firewall like attack? Actually, I would play wizard with this setup :)


     
  14. Dahmer

    Dahmer Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this.

    Mmm, maybe but what if you're in a fight with lots of movement? It would render all the hydra's except one completely useless.



     
  15. Yersinia Pestis

    Yersinia Pestis Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this.

    And this is why I am pretty sure this system won't be in the game.

    I think this is not really what blizzards wants us to do.

    When you want to slow monsters for your big Fire Hydra put points ins Slow Time (you know, that chrono bubble) or Frost Nova or smth. like that.

    And btw.: I want a rune that turns the Hydra into a Hydralisk! :D


     
  16. Ninyu

    Ninyu Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this.

    Then you don't use Hydra in that situation? Or, you rune it differently. The skill runes add adaptability to your skills so that Blizzard can throw a bunch of different scenarios at you and they don't render your chosen skills useless.


     
  17. Frank_the_tank

    Frank_the_tank Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this.

    I don't know, it feels like something they would throw in when people are starting to get fed up with the game. The only way it would work at all is if every skill rune placed in a skill (except the first) count towards the overall skill cap of 7 skills. Also, only a few suitable skills per class could be multi-runed. Even so, some builds would quickly end up boring and monotone. Blizzard wouldn't risk that with new players still in the picture, and thus it wont happen until the only players still playing are the ones that know everything about the game.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2010
  18. Falcord

    Falcord Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this.

    What's wrong with boring and mononote builds? If that's what float other people's boat, why do you want to limit it artificially?

    I recall some builds in Diablo II that were quite boring on paper. My bowsorc used barely anything other than autoattack, yet it was a lot of fun because how specific and unique that build was.

    Would you forbid bowsorcs because "they may be boring for a newbie"?


     
  19. Frank_the_tank

    Frank_the_tank Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this.

    I don't, but Blizzard does. It scares new and inexperienced players away, which leads to negative impact on the game thru the word of mouth.


     
  20. cacophony

    cacophony Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Different runed versions at once? the game NEEDS this.

    Easy. In fact, let's say you have the option of learning whirlwind 5 times w/ the 5 different runes, and then two other skills. I actually calculated this, b/c I was bad at conceptualizing the real situation.

    Given the 97 billion number, you back that up and get 24 skills per class. So, if you could use a skill more than once, but you were using different runes (and no rune) in it, then you're essentially creating 6 x 24 = 144 separate skills. Then:

    nCr, n = 144, r = 7 slots, nCr = [n!]/[r!(n - r)!]
    220 billion unique builds. That's a lot more than the 97 billion from earlier, of course. But that's not what they're going to do.


     

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