Did I mess up?

[Kyo]

Oh no - here we go again


====================

"here goes nothing" - Han Solo - Star Wars

 

[Mad Mantis]

"here goes nothing" - Han Solo - Star Wars

"I have a bad feeling about this" - Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Leia Organa, Lando Calrissian, Obi Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker. All from Star Wars.

 

[Necrochild313]

This is a really stupid thing to say.

your right, i'm a complete moron, ask anyone in the forum, I've been absolutely no help to anyone

Why? Because there is no context!!!

Next time try to look at what i'm responding too (Myrakh-2's post), I'll make a special quote just for you next time.

The real question is "what other things could you have spent the points on?"

In other words, what skills would I not have, if I choose to put extra points into Revive??

Please see previous posts, I don't like to be repeticious, IIRC there was some talk about skellimages, ect.

:xlady:

 

[rickcarson]

your right, i'm a complete moron

Well, those are your words, not mine.

ask anyone in the forum, I've been absolutely no help to anyone

Well - *actually* on the front page there *is* another thread asking you to apologise for telling someone else to stfu.

And we also have your other thread the 'Fire Gollem' guide, which some people have taken as a jibe against 'leet speak', which would be funny if that was all that it was...
...but there are also comments in there that led some to believe it is actually a personal attack (eg against ReliveTheStupidity's PvP guide).


I'm sure that the next time I need:

• someone mocked for bad spelling
• someone to stfu
• someone mocked for the most minor deviation from a standard build
• someone mocked for putting more than one point into a skill

You will be the first one I call upon for your very special kind of 'help'.

Hrm... on second thought, that kind of 'help' isn't actually in short supply around here.

Tell you what, why don't you take a number, and get in line...?

 

[HarbingersOfSkulls]

Tell you what, why don't you take a number, and get in line...? [/QUOTE]



Then make NC #2 in line...cuz I'm taking the top spot...it no wonder alot of the vets of this forum are leaving...because of the idiots that are around here feel that they must start something to make a name for themselves.

That's idiots in general...not just one person.

HoS

 

[Planet_Smasher]

Tell you what, why don't you take a number, and get in line...?

Then make NC #2 in line...cuz I'm taking the top spot...it no wonder alot of the vets of this forum are leaving...because of the idiots that are around here feel that they must start something to make a name for themselves.

That's idiots in general...not just one person.

HoS[/QUOTE]
Its not wonder a lot of the vets are leaving.. well said. Maybe if they stopped turning on every single person. Necrochild313 has a real bad attitude problem as of lately.

You're not helping anyone in the forum anymore Necrochild313, and I've lurked here for a LONG time.. I know a lot of you better then you might think. Some of the vets need to perhaps move on. Stop using this forum as a 'hang out'.

Necrochild313, you have been very unhelpful as of late. Try looking for my thread where I suggest that you apologize.

Planet_Smasher

 

[EuroJamie]

Disclaimer: The last thing I want to do with the following is fan the flames of any ongoing forum angst, so if I offend anyone, I’m sorry, but it certainly wasn’t intentional.

I’ve lurked for a while and posted for a while too, however I still consider myself to be one of the newer members of the forum. Nevertheless, I have to say that I’ve never had an unkind word written about me by any of the long-established forum members. I’ve had plenty of help when I’ve needed it, and they’ve provided plenty of entertainment.

It seems that recently there have been a few incidents which have caused some conflict between longer established forum members (or veterans, as they seem to be being called) and newer members

Forum arguments, in my experience, are 99% based on misunderstandings. We can communicate via text, but we don’t have the advantage of reinforcing our meanings through facial expressions, body language, etc, which have been proven to carry vastly more meaning than text alone. This means that humour is frequently misinterpreted, aggression is magnified and generally there is a great deal less subtlety in the meanings we are trying to convey. Combine this with the fact that it is a lot easier to retract spoken words and smooth them over than it is to take the edge off an uneditable posting in a forum, and I’m sure it is easy to appreciate how much easier it is to unintentionally offend people on a forum than it is irl. It’s real easy to do, I’ve done it myself on occasion and I don’t think I’ve seen any regular poster in this forum who hasn’t at some point (apart from Mantis, but then, he is the patron saint of necromancery ).

I guess what I’m trying to say is that I think the forum would be a whole lot happier place if posters were a bit more tolerant and made a few more allowances for misunderstandings. This thread is a prime example. A comment was misinterpreted and before you know it the whole thing starts escalating towards a flame war.

@Planet_Smasher, I don’t know you particularly well, so again I apologise if you find anything I say to be offensive. From what I’ve read of your posts however, you seem to be someone who is very interested in the well-fare of the forum, so I hope you’ll take my remarks as being from someone who shares your sentiments.

I think that suggesting that anyone should “move on†from the forum is rather discouraging. I find the knowledge of long-term forum members to be extremely useful, and it’s also nice to see familiar faces on the forum – despite the fact that it exists to discuss strategy, it nevertheless also has a strong social ethos. The news about the demise of the PoisonDagger bug in Necrochild313’s extremely well-documented test thread was one of the most important posts I’ve read since I joined earlier in the year (Hey, it knackered my plans to build a bowmancer :rant: , but that’s my problem!). I’m sorry you haven’t found any of his recent posts to be of much use to you, but I have. Furthermore, the contributions of newer posters is also invaluable, as they frequently can give a new spin to things that the “vets†may not have considered, a great example being Leuchovius' Jailkeeper guide.

Furthermore, I’d also say that bringing up your thread asking Necrochild313 to apologise is pretty counterproductive. First and foremost, the thread was already closed by a mod on the grounds that it was not the way to draw attention to the issue, so it only seems logical to respect DK’s wishes and leave it at that. Secondly, imo creating such a post and bringing it up again is, realistically, going to serve little purpose other than to rub people up the wrong way and cause more aggro, which I’m sure is the last thing you want.

Anyway, that's my $0.02. Time for a :drink: methinks.

 

[rickcarson]

Then make NC #2 in line...cuz I'm taking the top spot...it no wonder alot of the vets of this forum are leaving...because of the idiots that are around here feel that they must start something to make a name for themselves.

That's idiots in general...not just one person.

HoS

Well, if you have any personal aggro you would like to vent, I've started another thread where you can still claim that #1 position as a 'put up or shut up' kind of thing.

A lot of the 'vets' are just sheep. They're just bleating the same old tired rubbish, some of which wasn't even true back in 1.09!

The other thing is that the concept of a 'vet' is sorely distorted. Should we go on post count? Length of service? 'Helpfulness'?

The objective measures of what makes a vet (long standing, large number of posts, ability to spell correctly, avoidance of leet speak, ability to parrot the well known 'party line' etc) are all *obviously flawed*. And the subjective ones are even worse.

I look at half of the builds/threads that Dark Knight stickies, and I think 'what drugs is he on? This is obviously just an <insert standard build here> written badly, with no originality at all'. And yet other, far more original (and if not original then at least well researched), useful and better written guides languish in obscurity. Example: gvandale's guide.

Necrochild (and others) just happened to keep pushing one of my buttons - which is when someone wades on in, and makes an unhelpful contribution without even thinking about what they are saying.

In this case the 'party line' is that 1 point is enough in skills like Clay Golem and Revive, and you should let +skills do the rest. Of course the enormous fallacy is that one persons +skills will be different from the next.

You want to mock people's builds?

I got one for ya:

--------

The Childe of ye Necro

This build does it all! Minions, Poison, Bone, Mojo, MF, its got yer number skippy! PvP, PvM, and the official necro forum bleat of approval.

Skills
Raise Skeleton: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Skeleton Mastery: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Clay Golem: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Skeletal Mage: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Golem Mastery: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Blood Golem: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Summon Resist: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Iron Golem: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Fire Golem: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Revive: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Teeth: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Bone Armour: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Corpse Explosion: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Poison Dagger: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Bone Wall: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Bone Spear: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Poison Explosion: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Bone Prison: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Poison Nova: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Bone Spirit: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Amplify Damage: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Dim Vision: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Weaken: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Iron Maiden: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Terror: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Confusion: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Life Tap: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Decrepify: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Attract: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Lower Resist: 1 pt. Let +skills do the rest.
Don't put more than one point into anything, only n00bs do that! Just look at any thread on the necro forum. Nine out of ten agree to let +skills do everything!

If you follow this guide, you will be done at 30, which proves that this guide is the best!

Gear
Just leech some dupes off my buddies DaKnob and Darknob. Any n00b can get at least +20 skills, once you've got that on your other gear, you customise the rest of your build with your +skills grand charms.

If you like summons, take +10 summons GCs
If you like poison or bone take +10 pb gcs.
If you want the most awesome hybrid ever (summons and poison and bone all in one sexy package) take +5 summons gcs and +5 pb gcs.

If you want to MF, just make sure the gcs have lots of MF on them as well!

Questing
Another great thing about this build is that you can skip almost all the boring bits. Rescue Cain? Pfah! Let the old fart rot! Clear out the den of evil??? What, and get blood on my lovely 'nigma??? I think not! Go looking for some mouldy old book(s)??? As if!
Just leech that last tp from some random lvl 80 n00blars, and you're off!
That makes this build the fastest. Speed rules, baby.

Tactics
The great thing is you have every skill at your disposal.
But don't use Weaken (everybody knows it always sucks).
And don't use Revive (sucky AI).
And don't use Fire Golem (doesn't do enough damage, use gumby instead).

 

[rickcarson]

Nevertheless, I have to say that I’ve never had an unkind word written about me by any of the long-established forum members.

Well.. if you're feeling left out... we can 'arrange' something??

It seems that recently there have been a few incidents which have caused some conflict

(ed: emphasis added)

You *must* be new here! (nb: slashdot in joke)

Forum arguments, in my experience, are 99% based on misunderstandings.

A fair few are caused by people just having different opinions. And some people will slag off at someone just because they think differently about something than the group does - no matter if the group is wrong (it happens, and some people need to learn to deal with that), or if they are talking about a specific build or situation.

A good example:
Max Lower Resist or 'let +skills do the work'?
The 'facts' are not disputed - everyone happily admits that the returns are diminishing. *However* the interpretation of those facts is somewhat open to differences of opinion. There are some situations where someone might choose to max out Lower Resist.

Same with Clay Golem - if you're after something really unkillable... and you have plenty of spare skill points, why not put some in CG??? Again, its a situational thing.

But some people treat you like a moron for trying to do anything different, even if there might be a good reason. There's even a well known saying "the exception that proves the rule", which expresses that sometimes when you have a rule that is good in general, it doesn't always apply.

It is a particular delusion common to 'smarter than average' people that anyone whose opinion differs from theirs is being irrational.

And sometimes even smart people say dumb things.

This thread is a prime example. A comment was misinterpreted and before you know it the whole thing starts escalating towards a flame war.

Its not so much a misunderstanding as N313 *choosing* to interpret something as a personal attack.

I didn't call him a complete moron, but when he said that I said that about him, he sure was acting like one.

I think that suggesting that anyone should “move on†from the forum is rather discouraging.

Meh, its a common technique in parenting. If a child is misbehaving, tell them to take a time out.

The same thing happened with the Magic the Gathering community. You'd get these people posting with great goodness for a couple of years, and then they'd suddenly turn around, lash out and announce that they were quitting and everyone still playing was a complete tool.

A well known concept in economics is that of 'diminishing marginal returns' - similar in this context to what happens when you put more points into Lower Resist, you get less and less benefit. In econ one example is the person in the desert dying of thirst. The first glass of water is amazing, the second slightly less so, after about ten they don't want anymore, the twentieth is physically painful, and the fiftieth kills them (apparently you can drown from drinking too much water in a single sitting). In this example the benefit has diminished to zero (at say the 20th glass), and further consumption beyond that point is worse than not continuing, the marginal benefit (ie the benefit of drinking the next glass) is negative.

People keep playing games beyond the point where they are no longer fun anymore. Then if they keep going eventually the 'unfunness' of each game uses up that historic amount of fun, and then it becomes painful to keep playing, and eventually the pain gets too much, and they blow up all over the place.

Well, the point is, that some people don't sound like they're having fun anymore.

Maybe they need to take time out.

It used to be that every six months, I'd go through a 'Battletech' phase, where I'd haul out the books, crank up some spreadsheets etc, design some mechs and 'go layeth the plasma cannon downeth on yo candy-fibrous armoured asseth'.

I'd play it for a while, and then I'd move on. Maybe to gurps, or Shadowrun, or chess, or Command and Conquer. And eventually I'd come back full circle to Battletech.

Tragically, Fasa ruined both Shadowrun and Battletech. If I play them anymore its only with people who also remember the 'good old days'.

The problem with D2 of course, is that if you take a hiatus to refresh and recover, you lose everything if it takes longer than 90 days. So you have to keep sticking around, and there's no 'recovery' period.

MtG has a similar problem, in that there is a 'treadmill' of rules changes and new card sets always coming out, so that if you stop playing for a while it can be *very expensive* to get back on.

Speaking of treadmills, I guess I should stop crusading for peace love and mungbeans and get my candy-asseth down to the gym... :howdy:

The news about the demise of the PoisonDagger bug in Necrochild313’s extremely well-documented test thread was one of the most important posts I’ve read since I joined earlier in the year

Yeah, that was an interesting one. It was good to see someone challenge the groupthink. Its then very disappointing to see the same person turn back into one of the sheep elsewhere. But... as they say, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

I know I've got lots of strong opinions. I've also admitted that I've been wrong (on factual issues) before. I don't like doing that, so I try to reserve my strong opinions for those things I actually know something about. In particular I hardly ever post about PvP because I don't know anything about it (my other recent thread being the excpetion that proves the rule).

But some people wade in all over the place and spout off stuff they haven't actually thought about and they're just parroting the party line, or on topics that they clearly know nothing about.

A good example is the fundamental change to the game now that you can buy mana potions. I've seen lots of older players saying things that only make sense in the context of mana being an important resource that needs to be managed. Well, that's no longer true, but they haven't thought through the implications.

Is the decreasing mana cost on Bone Prison such a good thing anymore? Probably not (if you're operating from the premise that mana is now close to being free), and yet you still get people saying thats the best reason to put lots of points into it!

I was thinking a while back about what the 'true' cost of a full regen pot should be, when I realised that the closest equivalent is a town portal. That was an interesting train of thought. Someone who hasn't thought about it from that point of view (or who plays lots of melee chars, which I hardly ever play) is going to have a different opinion about their true value, even though exactly the same 'facts' are available to them.

Furthermore, the contributions of newer posters is also invaluable, as they frequently can give a new spin to things that the “vets†may not have considered, a great example being Leuchovius' Jailkeeper guide.

Bah. That was a well written, but poorly thought out, steaming pile of poop. There were other much more original guides out there at the same time.

His guide boils down to 'corpse explosion + bone prison is good'. Well duh. Its not like we didn't already know that.

It didn't really add much at all, *especially* since he wrote like he'd tried it out, but then it turned out it was just an exercise in ego mastubation.

Furthermore, I’d also say that bringing up your thread asking Necrochild313 to apologise is pretty counterproductive.

Yes, but if N313 brings up his 'spotless shiny record of being a paragon of helpfulness and virtue' while at practically the same time he's telling other people to STFU, then it becomes fair game to raise those points.

He (N313) specifically asked for examples of *anyone* who had found him unhelpful, he bought it into context, and it only took about 3 seconds for me to find the first counter-example.

Maybe in his little universe telling people to STFU qualifies as being 'helpful', but he must be using a very strange definition of help. (Or maybe its a 'tough love' kind of thing???)

 

[Hunt3r_kill4]

ok guys quite with the flaming and thanks for all your help

If i did not invest in revives, I would put them in bone spear/spirit instead...

seeing as to I already started a new necro, I'll see how it turns out


necrochild I think you have been a big help and some people *cough cough* needs to stop talking/flaming and help around a bit more and be more pleasent :lol:

thanks planet_smasher for sherrifing this post :lol:

and everyone else that contributed their opinion is now my idol :bow:

 

[Planet_Smasher]

How I would love to respond to that second last post But, I am forcing myself to take a more cool-handed approach. I do not want to get myself and half of the forum worked up again. I, however, do appreciate the support, rickcarson. Thanks. Don't get yourself banned though... that wouldn't be so super stick around and we can have a few :drink: later :buddies: .

Planet_Smasher a.ka. The Sheriff

 

[Mad Mantis]

A fair few are caused by people just having different opinions. And some people will slag off at someone just because they think differently about something than the group does - no matter if the group is wrong (it happens, and some people need to learn to deal with that), or if they are talking about a specific build or situation.

A good example:
Max Lower Resist or 'let +skills do the work'?
The 'facts' are not disputed - everyone happily admits that the returns are diminishing. *However* the interpretation of those facts is somewhat open to differences of opinion. There are some situations where someone might choose to max out Lower Resist.

Normally I’d like to keep myself out of these kinds of threads. They offer no means for “victory†and all participants come out worse than they started. This if however the only part I wish to react to, since it is a comment on forum “procedureâ€, commenting on that usually isn’t taken personal by people. Remember that this is not an attack on you rickcarson, but merely an explanation of why we do things.

There is a reason why we say that usually 1 point in LR is more than enough. That reason is the fact that is so terribly easy to come up with variants to a specific build. It is very hard to take into account all the possible variants when we post a piece of advice. Most people do not express the desire to play a variant build and so it becomes a habit to answer according to an already established standard. That standard is in this case the 1 point in LR is enough.

You have brought this to our attention more recently and I have been trying to include variants when I post advice for a build, but it remains relatively difficult. I hope you can see our point of view on this matter.

 

[Necrochild313]

necrochild I think you have been a big help and some people *cough cough* needs to stop talking/flaming and help around a bit more and be more pleasent :lol:

Thank you Hunt3r_kill4

I'm glad to see that some people can show appreciation for me taking time out of my day to address their queries.

 

[Planet_Smasher]

I just hope things go back to normal.