Diablo4 as a 3rd person shooter/RPG !!?

[Knight_Wolf]

Diablo4 as a 3rd person shooter/RPG !!?

No this topic isn't about making Diablo 3 into a 3rd person shooter, it's about the future of Diablo after D3 ... so if you are here to troll ... roll on to another thread :whistling:

On Topic .... After seeing this trailer for "Dark Siders" (which i find pretty epic) .. Here ---> http://www.gametrailers.com/video/story-trailer-darksiders/49408

I thought "it indeed does share some elements with Diablo 3 story wise, and does have nice graphics with a lot of style and personality".

My question is ... If Diablo in the future is ever made into a 3rd person shooter/RPG (maybe Diablo 4) like HGL was made would you like to look similar to Dark Siders or like something else (definitely not HGL).

---------------------------------

Things to Discuss.

1. Would like D4 to stay isometric or move on to the 3rd person realm since technology by that time (maybe 2020) will enable impressive visual feats that can only be appreciated in 3rd person.
2. What do think D4 should look like in terms of visual style if it was made into a 3rd person shooter (Gears of War visual style, Dark Siders style, .. etc etc)
3. What's your impression about the shared elements between Dark Siders and Diablo stories (Hell Vs Heaven Vs a third-party)

 

[Ishtor]

Re: Diablo4 as a 3rd person shooter/RPG !!?

i do not want to see it as a shooter

 

[Kiroptus]

Re: Diablo4 as a 3rd person shooter/RPG !!?

Indeed I also do picture Diablo 4 (if it ever comes out while I am alive) as an Epic Third Person ARPG.

HGL was in the right track but lost itself among many design and story mistakes. Its true that an isometric view is more fitting for an ARPG but imo, a TPV mode has way more potential to have epic battles and moments.

But things to consider: The interaction between monsters and players gotta be great and NOT be like WoW where everyone interacts with the monsters by standing near them and receiving/delivering damage in a very anemic and very non-action way, we have to remember its a ACTION-rpg.

It gotta be a very physical endurance, like Barbarians being able to pick up fallens and throw them at other monsters, big monsters picking you up and getting ready to tear you apart then another player must come for the rescue, if there is an agile character like lets say an asn and she is fighting a huge monster I would expect the level of interactivity with the asn and the monster to be something closer to shadow of the colossus where you have to climb up the monster (damaging the monster in every climbing step, as you do it by thrusting your katars into the monster's flesh) and so on.

If Diablo ever decides to go with TPV it gotta be in a whole level of player-monster interactivity and NOT the anemic interaction that happens in WoW and happened in HGL.

As far as art style, its up to blizzard. I wouldnt like a lot of mesh of colors but not the gray boredom that was HGL, that didnt work. It would like fog effect that paints the scenario with a painterly look (something close to Braid but far more darker and sinester), I would like tones of dark green, purple and a nightmarish blue (if someone here played Quake1, one of the final levels was one called "Azure Agony" a dungeon whole tinted in blue, Quake1 has crude graphic to nowdays standards but the feeling of agony and dread that the level inspired was amazing, if you can get quake1, go to the last episode and to the last level, you will see what I mean).

As far as gameplay, I am a big fan of Dark Cloud 2 for the Ps2, I know it has kiddy anime-style but the idea behind this dungeon crawler game (hated the georama parts) was amazing and could work really well. Another reference here goes to Vagrant story and the blacksmithing/crafting that happened in some places, I liked that aspect. Plus we would need to let go the idea of "clicky-click-click" imo. Certainly it would still be there with a WSAD + Mouse support but It would be fun to experiment stuff like manual blocking and charging attacks (holding mouse1 or another skill that requires it, for example, a firebolt mage spell that can get stronger as you hold and release the attack, spamming it nets you some firebolts, charging for some time turns it into a fireball effect and so on).

More to come, way too much stuff to post and discuss.

 

[Knight_Wolf]

Re: Diablo4 as a 3rd person shooter/RPG !!?

Indeed I also do picture Diablo 4 (if it ever comes out while I am alive) as an Epic Third Person ARPG.

Until now most Blizzard games have a life sycle of 8-10 years ... so we should be expecting sequels for current games by 2019 or 2020 .. or something like that.

As for D4 ... i agree .. if they can blend the RPG elements of Diablo (multiple classes with lots of skills, loot, random monsters, random dungeons, .. etc etc) with aspect of TPS it is indeed going to work very well.

But things to consider: The interaction between monsters and players gotta be great and NOT be like WoW where everyone interacts with the monsters by standing near them and receiving/delivering damage in a very anemic and very non-action way, we have to remember its a ACTION-rpg.

It gotta be a very physical endurance, like Barbarians being able to pick up fallens and throw them at other monsters, big monsters picking you up and getting ready to tear you apart then another player must come for the rescue, if there is an agile character like lets say an asn and she is fighting a huge monster I would expect the level of interactivity with the asn and the monster to be something closer to shadow of the colossus where you have to climb up the monster (damaging the monster in every climbing step, as you do it by thrusting your katars into the monster's flesh) and so on.

If Diablo ever decides to go with TPV it gotta be in a whole level of player-monster interactivity and NOT the anemic interaction that happens in WoW and happened in HGL.

You really need to see the Dark Siders trailer on the first post because it felt for me like all that you said here was in it ... it feels like seeing Diablo as a TPS/RPG hypird minus the RPG part since Dark Siders is more action oriented (still has some upgrades and such but no way near an ARPG).

As far as art style, its up to blizzard. I wouldnt like a lot of mesh of colors but not the gray boredom that was HGL, that didnt work. It would like fog effect that paints the scenario with a painterly look (something close to Braid but far more darker and sinester), I would like tones of dark green, purple and a nightmarish blue (if someone here played Quake1, one of the final levels was one called "Azure Agony" a dungeon whole tinted in blue, Quake1 has crude graphic to nowdays standards but the feeling of agony and dread that the level inspired was amazing, if you can get quake1, go to the last episode and to the last level, you will see what I mean).

Oh i did play Quake and remember what you say, but using color tints is only one aspect of the art style, I think a cross between the single color tinted Gears of War style along with Dark Siders art style seen in the trailer (mius the oversized things) could work quite well as a style for D4 if it becomes TPS ... frankly the only time Blizz tried a TPS it didn't nail its style well (SC:GHost) it always felt something was missing and the style felt overall too catoonish and bland for some reason (going for realism was no option either) ... same goes for HGL looks .. it failed both graphics quality and style departments.

Maybe one of the new unannounced Blizz games (one of them is already an MMO) is a TPS as an attempt to step into that direction and get it right ... who knows.

As far as gameplay, I am a big fan of Dark Cloud 2 for the Ps2, I know it has kiddy anime-style but the idea behind this dungeon crawler game (hated the georama parts) was amazing and could work really well. Another reference here goes to Vagrant story and the blacksmithing/crafting that happened in some places, I liked that aspect. Plus we would need to let go the idea of "clicky-click-click" imo. Certainly it would still be there with a WSAD + Mouse support but It would be fun to experiment stuff like manual blocking and charging attacks (holding mouse1 or another skill that requires it, for example, a firebolt mage spell that can get stronger as you hold and release the attack, spamming it nets you some firebolts, charging for some time turns it into a fireball effect and so on).

Again, watching the trailer will really help propel this discussion in the right direction.

Also i think if Blizz ever plans to make Diablo 4 into an ARPG/TPS hybrid they need some good experience with making TPS games first since the only time they tried it out was SC:Ghost and that project never saw the light.

 

[Kiroptus]

Re: Diablo4 as a 3rd person shooter/RPG !!?

To illustrate how I picture the art style I can link to these concepts of a great artist:

http://tyranx.com/images/temple.jpg

http://tyranx.com/images/serene.jpg

http://www.tyranx.com/concepts/ascent02.jpg

(this is about the green/poisonous tone I was talking about):

http://www.tyranx.com/concepts/lmsround1.jpg


Now this is how I picture it, to me its perfectly how I see a Diablo in TPV:

http://www.tyranx.com/concepts/tomb01.jpg


Props to this guy: http://www.tyranx.com he is an amazing artist who just got unemployed because of the 3Drealms and the DNF fiasco (he worked there), hopefully he already got a job.

And yes I did see the trailer, it surely looks epic and looks like a HGL done right. I am just worried about Player-monster interaction which at least to me, even seeing what is mostly a cinematic trailer, gets me to think that Darksiders will be a bit like DMC in terms of interaction.

But truth be told I doubt that Blizzard would try to make Diablo4 a TPV, they play way to safe and again, lets be honest here: They dont innovate much at all. They adopt some concepts, refine and polish them masterfully but Blizzard never really made a fantastic inovation on some genre, if this dreamy TPV ARPG comes out I believe it wont be Diablo4, it will be some other company that managed to pull it off and if done perfectly enough to steal fans from the Diablo Franchise then it will be when Blizzard will consider adapting Diablo into TPV mode but we can only hope that someone can give some competition to the ARPG genre. Diablo 2 is only reigning today because no one bothered with ARPG (at least not with a good MP component, Titan Quest was okay but no MP killed it and HGL was a disgrace), if Diablo 3 sparks more interest in the ARPG genre I would hope to have some innovation by other developers because we cant count on blizzard on this department.

Edit: Ops, took it out, somehow it didnt screw my forum here but I the res is pretty high on this monitor, sorry for that, putting links instead of images now.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Diablo4 as a 3rd person shooter/RPG !!?

My question is ... If Diablo in the future is ever made into a 3rd person shooter/RPG (maybe Diablo 4) like HGL was made would you like to look similar to Dark Siders or like something else (definitely not HGL).

Seems like a very strong possibility, Knight_Wolf. Why not? Fits nicely into the notion of evolutionary gameplay that should be a prime concern on every sequel. I'm not exactly defending the idea. But neither I am particularly against it. Just observing that, from all I can think, this looks like a natural choice if the need arises to evolve Diablo.

EDIT: BTW, freakin' awesome trailer.

EDIT2: Holly... did you have to embed those images? Please just post links...

 

[Knight_Wolf]

Re: Diablo4 as a 3rd person shooter/RPG !!?

Now this is how I picture it, to me its perfectly how I see a Diablo in TPV:

http://www.tyranx.com/concepts/tomb01.jpg


Props to this guy: http://www.tyranx.com he is an amazing artist who just got unemployed because of the 3Drealms and the DNF fiasco (he worked there), hopefully he already got a job.

Looks very nice, specially the Tomb Picture .. that could really work i guess ... but the hardest part after that is translating it into 3D ... it will either make it or break it.

And yes I did see the trailer, it surely looks epic and looks like a HGL done right. I am just worried about Player-monster interaction which at least to me, even seeing what is mostly a cinematic trailer, gets me to think that Darksiders will be a bit like DMC in terms of interaction.

Now that you mention it .. yeah ... it is more similar to HGL than Diablo (also because of the modern setting involved)

And as for the monster-player interaction ... i think the gameplay trailer (also on Gametrailers) shows some bits of monster interaction .. they aim for more thatn what's found in DMC .. more like GOW (god of war).


But let's think what monster interactions can be done in general.
-Player grapping monster
-Player Throwing monster
-Player finishing off monster on the floor before it recovers
-Player locking weapons with a monster
-Player blocking monster attack

The other way around (which should be limited IMO .. like no monster throwing player around)
-Monster grapping/restraining player (but no initial damage .. player is only damaged if he can't escape in time .. and no quick events involved ... it has to be done in a better skill based way ... like the final boss in Dead Space .. that's how it should be done .. check dead space final battle on Youtube to see what i mean)
-Monster blocking player attack
-Monster Locking weapons with player (it's mutual any way)

But truth be told I doubt that Blizzard would try to make Diablo4 a TPV, they play way to safe and again, lets be honest here: They dont innovate much at all. They adopt some concepts, refine and polish them masterfully but Blizzard never really made a fantastic inovation on some genre, if this dreamy TPV ARPG comes out I believe it wont be Diablo4.

Hmmm ... so how different should a TPV ARPG Diablo be from say Oblivion and Fallout (since they are pretty much the same in concept).

Let's not forget that Fallout series started like Diablo (isometric) and evolved into a 3rd person action RPG.

Seems like a very strong possibility, Knight_Wolf. Why not? Fits nicely into the notion of evolutionary gameplay that should be a prime concern on every sequel. I'm not exactly defending the idea. But neither I am particularly against it. Just observing that, from all I can think, this looks like a natural choice if the need arises to evolve Diablo.

Yeah .. the same happened to Fallout before .. it's only a matter of time.

EDIT: BTW, freakin' awesome trailer.

Glad you liked it .. i hope D3 will be equally if not more epic than this.

 

[konfeta]

Re: Diablo4 as a 3rd person shooter/RPG !!?

So what you are basically asking for is an Brawler/RPG hybrid. Which is completely unlike Diablo gameplay wise.

To be honest, I hope Diablo never goes that way. The number of isometric ARPG's is awfully small. The number of third person brawlers is growing. If Blizzard was to try one, I really hope it would be a new I.P.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Diablo4 as a 3rd person shooter/RPG !!?

But let's think what monster interactions can be done in general.
-Player grapping monster
-Player Throwing monster
-Player finishing off monster on the floor before it recovers
-Player locking weapons with a monster
-Player blocking monster attack

I wouldn't go that route though.

One of the key aspects of Diablo is the control simplicity. This has so far provided the game with its trademarked fast pace. It's an easy game to get into and the details are left for character development and customization. I think the cornerstone of Diablo success (and I'm talking true success here, not temporary fads like about any action game these days which doesn't resist the test of time) has been how they so masterfully blended all the inherent complexity of item mods and types, skills, and all other aspects of character customization into a simplistic visual depiction of battles and the little control involved.

I wouldn't be shocked at all, and would probably rate it higher, if this same principle would be transported into such a new genre. You could still see those effects in motion. But they would mostly be out of the player control and thrown in semi-randomly as scripted actions during battles.

A TPV Diablo that was accessible to everyone regardless of their handling skills (you know, my 6 year old daughter does Hell Act II with my frenzy barb on her own) would indeed be my favorite option.

 

[Kiroptus]

Re: Diablo4 as a 3rd person shooter/RPG !!?

Yeah BHmmm ... so how different should a TPV ARPG Diablo be from say Oblivion and Fallout (since they are pretty much the same in concept).

Let's not forget that Fallout series started like Diablo (isometric) and evolved into a 3rd person action RPG.

I guess a lot. At least in our dream vision of an TPV-ARPG (or maybe only mine) Fallout and Oblivion still interact very poorly in player-vs-monster, its like WoW, there is no "Omph" to it. Something as visceral as diablo would need to be better imo. (tho fallout 3 slow-mo deaths are entertaining but its just ragdolls)

And yes they did start as isometric but Bethesda and Blizzard are quite diferent in how they develop their games imo. I dont see Blizzard running of their ideas sphere as long as it keeps working so wonderfully nice for them, someone would have to bully them with a better concept because to the eyes of a big majority of the Diablo fans, the franchise cant get out of isometric view (i am quite sure more and more claims about how it wouldnt work on Diablo will be posted here) so I would even expect a diablo 4 to continue isometric unless they see the need for change which would only happen with a new wave of ARPG to the market which is a very forgotten genre once all the developers started drolling over the MMORPG market because of WoW.

Have you seen the leaked "Beyond Good and Evil 2" footage? Now THAT is the future of gamming, the type of interaction and animation that adapts to the situation, and how NPCs react to it, that its what needs to be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0llKUBEwGo

Its possible that is scripted but they were working on the Assassin Creed's engine which was similar to what happens in the trailer, so I believe its real, like an AC engine in steroids. Also let me point out that if a good ARPG has to be done, it HAS to use the euphoria physics engine, which can toss the player character far away and then, it dynamically animates the player's character to get up. Imagine having a fight with a big monster that manages to hit a strong attack on you and its force throws you away.


A new level of epicness can be achieved if some company manages to make a fantastic ARPG that plays well in TPV AND has good Multiplayer support.

But bottom line is: ARPGs in TPV need a lot of "omph". Thats the expression I was looking. More interactivity, more feel of power and being hit and thus, a great experience but dont count that from comming from Blizzard.

I wouldn't go that route though.

One of the key aspects of Diablo is the control simplicity. This has so far provided the game with its trademarked fast pace. It's an easy game to get into and the details are left for character development and customization. I think the cornerstone of Diablo success (and I'm talking true success here, not temporary fads like about any action game these days which doesn't resist the test of time) has been how they so masterfully blended all the inherent complexity of item mods and types, skills, and all other aspects of character customization into a simplistic visual depiction of battles and the little control involved.

I wouldn't be shocked at all, and would probably rate it higher, if this same principle would be transported into such a new genre. You could still see those effects in motion. But they would mostly be out of the player control and thrown in semi-randomly as scripted actions during battles.

A TPV Diablo that was accessible to everyone regardless of their handling skills (you know, my 6 year old daughter does Hell Act II with my frenzy barb on her own) would indeed be my favorite option.

But way too much simplicity does kill the ARPG feeling, HGL thought it could simply translate the same type of action presented in a far way isometric view in Diablo, to a TPV game where you can see every detail so close to yourself and every monster is even closer and personal to you, which means that the confronts must at least look believable but in HGL it just looked like you were waving your swords at stuff and stuff was dying, there was, again, no "omph".


They transfered the same type of fight that was seen in isometric view to TPV and it worked HORRIBLY. No fight was good or remarkable, it was a borefest to watch. It doesnt need to overcomplicate itself but it cant pretend its still on isometric view otherwise you might as well return to isometric where its far away and looks good rather than seeing the fights so close but feeling no contact with the monsters and thus, no action.

Thats one of things that needs to be considered if they go too near. In a MMORPG, those kinds of interaction do work because its a lot of players doing those, it could be bad to the server to handle lots of crazy interactions and physics all that. Plus MMORPG players do like this kind of interaction but in ARPG with 4-6 people playing the possibilities are better as you can dedicate more interaction and fun to each one of those.

 

[Knight_Wolf]

Re: Diablo4 as a 3rd person shooter/RPG !!?

@Kiroptus

I think this Korean MMO is your dream come true, its got all the bells and whistles (and "omph" too) that could make an ARPG fun in both SP and MP.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/debut-trailer-mabinogi-heroes/44481
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/war-gameplay-mabinogi-heroes/44482

------------------------------------------------

And i did see the video that people speculate is leaked from Beyond Good and Evil 2 .. if they can actually reach that level of interaction in the actual game that will be a new step for games as a whole.

 

[Kiroptus]

Re: Diablo4 as a 3rd person shooter/RPG !!?

^That looks amazing and I love you now! Now I must feed on every single info about that!

And it is from BG&E2, its confirmed by ubisoft We will see more of that in E3 in June, way too amazing, BG&E was such a charismatic and beautiful game but unfortunately it sold so little because of the marketing, it even got a lot of critic aclaim, hopefully this second one will do far better just with this leak alone.

Now lemme find info info and more info! Too bad its a Korean MMO, usually those look great in concept but end up being to grindy but if it play like the trailer, it can be a nice refreshment for waiting for Diablo3 (or maybe even a replacement? unlikely but one can hope that TPV will finally be done right in ARPGs).

Because what happen in this trailer that you just showed me (again thanks for that) is what happens when the fight is so close, you attack, monsters react to your attack, you react the enemy's attack, etc... that is what lacked so much in HGL and thats why a TPV Diablo cant make the same sin of forgetting that the fight is personal now, unlike the isometric.

Btw I am awfully curious to know what the new IP and MMO are, maybe its the chance for blizzard to show that they can innovate rather than just refine. Because even being the most sucessful PC developer in the world they rarely created new concepts, they create the run-of-the-mill in the market but with incredible quality and polishment (which is why it was a big shame that they canned SC:Ghost, it could be chance to show that they can do different things), lets see what they can store for us but right now, I dont think blizzard would make such a bold move as bringing Diablo to TPV, even from 6-10 years from now but I could be wrong (and I hope to be).

 

[Akse]

Re: Diablo4 as a 3rd person shooter/RPG !!?

Sure they can make one but would I still play it? Don't think so. I don't play diablo only because of its story or such.. but because it's isometrict ARPG which is fun type of game to play.

 

[SlechtWeerBeer]

Re: Diablo4 as a 3rd person shooter/RPG !!?

Didn't they state the Diablo series would end after III?
Or was it only the ARPG Diablo? Don't recall exactly. Oh well.

Sure they can make one but would I still play it? Don't think so. I don't play diablo only because of its story or such.. but because it's isometrict ARPG which is fun type of game to play.

To each his own. I'll most likely watch it grow and then decide wether it's good or not.

 

[Knight_Wolf]

Re: Diablo4 as a 3rd person shooter/RPG !!?

^That looks amazing and I love you now! Now I must feed on every single info about that!

And it is from BG&E2, its confirmed by ubisoft We will see more of that in E3 in June, way too amazing, BG&E was such a charismatic and beautiful game but unfortunately it sold so little because of the marketing, it even got a lot of critic aclaim, hopefully this second one will do far better just with this leak alone.

Agree, hopefully it will really be a big success and won't have the marketing problem of the first game.

BG&E case reminds me of Psyhconauts which also was charming and beautiful and had very creative level designs ... but didn't get much fame due to bad marketing.

At least we don't have to worry about marketing when it comes to Blizz games. :yes:

Now lemme find info info and more info! Too bad its a Korean MMO, usually those look great in concept but end up being to grindy but if it play like the trailer, it can be a nice refreshment for waiting for Diablo3 (or maybe even a replacement? unlikely but one can hope that TPV will finally be done right in ARPGs).

Yeah, i hear that a lot regarding most Korean RPGs (i did play RO fro sometime .. it was fun .. but i didn't play long enough to find if it's grindy or not) .. but maybe that's because they follow the traditional WoW or MMO formula ... breaking away from that and bringing something innovative to the MMO world will make the MMO market healthy and competitive again (in case the Korean game gets an international release) .. i would play that MMO even if it is grindy just to try out all the innovations in it (team work, environmental interaction, intense combat system, physics .... etc etc)

Hmmm .. actually as far as i know there aren't any MMOs with physics in them ?

And i don't think it will replace D3 .. more like replace WoW if it turns out to be as good as it is depicted in the trailers it will surely attract a lot of audience.

Because what happen in this trailer that you just showed me (again thanks for that) is what happens when the fight is so close, you attack, monsters react to your attack, you react the enemy's attack, etc... that is what lacked so much in HGL and thats why a TPV Diablo cant make the same sin of forgetting that the fight is personal now, unlike the isometric.

Good point .. i guess that's exactly the reason i was greatly disappointed when i played HGL, it always felt something was missing or wrong .. the only thing that didn't feel very awkward was ranged weapons ... other than that all monsters attacking the player and all melee combat by the player felt weird.

I hope Blizz realizes that TP games (even if it is an ARPG) need a different approach when it comes to combat and interactions between player-player ... player-monster ... player-environment.

Actually i'm glad there is more environmental interactions in D3 (destructible environment that can damage enemies, ladders, .. etc etc) .. they seem to be on the right track.

Btw I am awfully curious to know what the new IP and MMO are, maybe its the chance for blizzard to show that they can innovate rather than just refine. Because even being the most sucessful PC developer in the world they rarely created new concepts, they create the run-of-the-mill in the market but with incredible quality and polishment (which is why it was a big shame that they canned SC:Ghost, it could be chance to show that they can do different things), lets see what they can store for us but right now.

I too can't describe how i am intrigued to here Blizz are making a new IP, and here hoping it is something innovative and unique (like Lost Vikings was an unique innovative puzzle/action game), if they make the new IP with that in mind it will surely be a new breakthrough for them.

I dont think blizzard would make such a bold move as bringing Diablo to TPV, even from 6-10 years from now but I could be wrong (and I hope to be).

It depends on few things

-The market and critics reaction to Diablo 3 (gladly diablo clones like TQ kept the ARPG market generally alive .. they need to be thanked for that)

-The technology and hardware after 8-10 years from now ... no doubt the leap in tech will be drastic ... who knows how games will be like at the time they decide to make a sequel to D3.

-The other unknown IPs they are making .. depending on what they are that could affect the future of other Blizz games including Diablo .. if one of the new IPs is actually a TP/ARPG (for example) ... there will be no point in turning Diablo into a TP game.

Didn't they state the Diablo series would end after III?
Or was it only the ARPG Diablo? Don't recall exactly. Oh well.

I do remember people asking the question, but i don't think the answer was yes ... the answer i remember is that Blizz said they will end the current arc of the story but they were hoping of expanding the Diablo universe even further, ambiguous as usual from blizz as it could mean anything .. a sequel .. a movie adaption .... etc etc.

And let's not forget there will be expansion packs for D3 for sure.

To each his own. I'll most likely watch it grow and then decide wether it's good or not.

Agree, same here .. that's what i did with HGL .. i thought it to be the true D2 sequel .. but as soon as i tried it out i was really disappointed (until i heard about the D3 announcement)

Sure they can make one but would I still play it? Don't think so. I don't play diablo only because of its story or such.. but because it's isometric ARPG which is fun type of game to play.

That's surely part of the reason .. but the question is will isometric ARPGs still be fun after 8-10 years ... and after D3 ... i mean D3 is big because it makes many drastic jumps (from 2D to 3D) .. (static environments to physics based destruction) .. (all D2 problems addressed) .. etc etc.

It's hard to imagine what a D4 could offer if it stayed an isometric ARPG.

 

[paperkut]

Re: Diablo4 as a 3rd person shooter/RPG !!?

Indeed I also do picture Diablo 4 (if it ever comes out while I am alive) as an Epic Third Person ARPG.

HGL was in the right track but lost itself among many design and story mistakes. Its true that an isometric view is more fitting for an ARPG but imo, a TPV mode has way more potential to have epic battles and moments.

But things to consider: The interaction between monsters and players gotta be great and NOT be like WoW where everyone interacts with the monsters by standing near them and receiving/delivering damage in a very anemic and very non-action way, we have to remember its a ACTION-rpg.

It gotta be a very physical endurance, like Barbarians being able to pick up fallens and throw them at other monsters, big monsters picking you up and getting ready to tear you apart then another player must come for the rescue, if there is an agile character like lets say an asn and she is fighting a huge monster I would expect the level of interactivity with the asn and the monster to be something closer to shadow of the colossus where you have to climb up the monster (damaging the monster in every climbing step, as you do it by thrusting your katars into the monster's flesh) and so on.

If Diablo ever decides to go with TPV it gotta be in a whole level of player-monster interactivity and NOT the anemic interaction that happens in WoW and happened in HGL.

Better interaction is definitely a must. I really liked a lot of Knight_Wolf's ideas.
I play mostly console games so this is where i'm drawing most of my logic from.

I loved games like prince of persia and assassins creed where when you hit somethin or blocked somethin it had that oomph your talking about. What i would also love is with the different character classes there would be different ways you interact while in that same TP view.

I like what you said about the asn type climbing on things to attack it. They had a few big baddies in PoP that you'd have to get on top of and then go whackin away at the head while dodging the baddies arms tryin to swat you off--easily one of my favorite moments in gaming ever.

another thing i would like is a reward for being good with a bow, like locational damage and reactions to locational damage...slowing them if you hit em in the legs...less damage dealing for hitting arms...or maybe they could just have it where you'd have to adapt to your enemies' armor...like if there's helmets then quick-kililng headshots are out, but maybe the neck or legs are exposed. while not perfect..i did like the concept behind fable 2's targeting system where you could choose what to aim for...maybe if that was expanded upon.

As for the meleers..i want to see and hear and feel blows landing...i loved assassins creeds fighting system (and parts of fable 2's i believe) where it took skill to be good...sure you could just hack away..but even with that if you got good at you could time attacks right to be more effective...there needs to be the oomph of a hit and the correct reaction to that hit by the enemy (or you if you get hit).... by no means though do i want 50 guys crowding around me and attacking one at a time...

not exactly sure what magic should be exactly like...i had fun with fable 2's style...but didn't really use it that much

i'd love some environmental interactivity too...like climbing ladders, opening doors (not just swinging open when you click on them)...pushing/pulling objects around...as long as they didn't feel like they were placed there just to have them in the game

I know Knight_Wolf mentioned something about dead space's final boss battle...watched it and it was awesome....that's an example of a sweet interactive boss fight done right...Too many times games toss out the play style you'd been using the entire game and make you interact completely different (slightly different like how it grabbed him and held him making him have to aim upside down a few times was sweet) I didn't watch the whole thing..but i hope it wasn't like the gears of war 2 bosses where you would perform the same sequence of events 3 times to defeat boss...rinse and repeat for every other boss...

EDIT: Forgot to say I'm all for the TPV...FPV is fun too...but i love being able to see my character...especially if i'm customizing the armor/look of him