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Diablo III life expectancy

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by iamnotdeadyet, Oct 8, 2015.

  1. iamnotdeadyet

    iamnotdeadyet Diabloii.Net Member

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    Hullo,

    I'm writing this out of curiosity. I would like to know your opinion on how long the game will be 'playable' as it is today.

    Every time a new patch is released I play less and less as I find the game extremely repetitive: rifts + bounties ad infinitum.

    Do you think there will be radical changes to the game mechanics when the next expansion is on the market?

    Personally, as things stand I really doubt I shall ever buy the next expansion unless something is done about the game.

    I know it's not Diablo 1 or Diablo 2, but as times goes by I feel ever more disappointed.

    Maybe it's not my cup of tea but I don't think it's as good as it's cracked up to be.
     
    s4nder likes this.
  2. Mage Slayer

    Mage Slayer Diabloii.Net Member

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    Because D1 and D2 weren't repetitive?! I'll take rifts and bounties over Baal runs any day. If your finding that sort of thing less fun, it's probably 'cause you're getting older.

    And yes, I'm sure the expansion will change things up. My guess/wish is we'll get a new rift-like addition to adventure mode with it's own grift-like ladders which tests something other than your kill speed. More emphasis on survivibility, perhaps.
     
  3. TheNix

    TheNix Diabloii.Net Member

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    I think the the whole mindset of Blizzard's attitude toward Diablo 3 is the problem. There is only Blizzard's way or the highway. I have played D2 almost continuously since 2002 (other than 10 months playing D3 and the occasional month or two trying other games) in that time I have collected more than 65 Matriarch/Patriarch covering all LoD patches from 1.07 to 1.13. I have played Median XL and even dabbled with Hell Unleashed. I have chosen what I want to play and when. I have not had to rely of Blizzard's servers to be available so that I can play. I have not been forced to play as a team to get the best out of the game nor have I had to put efficiency ahead of fun to get the best out of the game either. I had finished everything I wanted to do within D3 in 10 months prior to the release of RoS; for me there was simply nothing else left to do. Then RoS was released and, again for me, removed all that was fun in D3 and made it into an updated 90s dungeon crawler. And I grew out of 90s dungeon crawlers in the 90s.

    Putting lipstick on the pig that D3 has become by adding more and more powerful items and areas to use them will only make the problem worse. Those players at the top of the game will get better exponentially faster than anyone else and will constantly complain they have to "carry" people in public games. Those who cannot afford the time to invest in the game to make them top players will be left so far behind that they will loose the will to try to even catch up, especially with the constant harassment about having to being "carried". The majority of new players simply will never be able to get foothold into the game because so few people will be starting at level 1 again except in sessions.

    Perhaps some sort of expanded PvP might help. Perhaps a better player match-up system for group play will too. But other than the constant grind of never ending plevels with ever better set items to collect, there really isn't much to do. After more than 13 years playing D2, I still have a number of characters on my to-do list. There will always be people who will be attracted to the constant grind of levels, more powerful items, and the power creep that comes along with it, so I don't see a demise of D3 in the foreseeable future but I think it is well on the way to becoming a niche market game for a very select group of people.

    EDIT: So many grammatical errors!!!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
    el shendee, Thyiad and kestegs like this.
  4. HFDOH

    HFDOH Diabloii.Net Member

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    its ok to be postive but do you really belive it ??? so far patches ect ect has made the game worse, laags , lost game connections, log in que and why do you think they will put more moneyin it or solve problems since Diablo dont generate Money to blizzard????
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2015
  5. HFDOH

    HFDOH Diabloii.Net Member

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  6. Mage Slayer

    Mage Slayer Diabloii.Net Member

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    Well, for one I don't think the patches have made the game worse as such. Lag is mainly due to power creep allowing us to push content high enough to test the limits of the servers. That was always going to be an issue eventually. Have log in queues been a problem outside of PTR? I certainly haven't noticed it.

    I'm confident there'll be another expansion at some point, which will generate more money. And I really can't see them go much longer without some sort of cash shop. Look at it the other way - why continue to give such a high level of support (you can argue that you'd like even more support, or that they've prioritized the wrong things, but it's hard to argue the game hasn't gotten an exceptional amount of free post release content for a box sales game) to a game which they don't have plans to make more money from?

    I also don't get the newcomers have no chance argument. Seasons prove that it's possible to make great progress in a short time. New players may not have a chance to compete on the non-season leaderboards, but there's a reason no-one really pays attention to NS boards.
     
  7. HFDOH

    HFDOH Diabloii.Net Member

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    well 6 or 7 weeks ago the was big log in que messages like you are 467 in the que !! and when you join a game recieve the message lost game connection or even worse in the midlle of a run! about newcomers well if they srat from the beginneing of season they ghave a chance yes but before D3 you could start anytime and make Progress so will still claim Diablo is going Down hill! I really dont get that you say : why continue to give such a high level of support most threads show the all say support customers service are bad as hell sorry
     
  8. In the name of Zod

    In the name of Zod Diabloii.Net Member

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    Speaking as a console player, basically there's 2 major's that are making the game nigh unplayable for me. The most enjoyable part of D3 is everything up to the point of leveling up gems to 25, at which point there is little reason to continue. The other enjoyable part of the game is finding items that make it feel like I am making something powerful using my smarts about the game, which has been killed off with 6 piece set items. So the game is over now, its life expectancy is yesterday unfortunately. It is a pretty game and its fun but it feels like everytime they add something cool they ruin it twice as badly with some other change.

    The last patch just killed the single player console experience, if an expansion where to be released, then it would need to be godly. However, I am very sure that this team haven't got what it takes to make it real.
     
  9. Zarniwoop

    Zarniwoop Diabloii.Net Member

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    The reason my playtime will go down over time is the same reason diablo communities are now dead - D3 destroyed the community.

    There is absolutely no reason to ever seek help, advice, or camaraderie. Once they went with bind on pickup, and simple skills it was over for Diablo communities more or less. All you have to do is hit shift+L and there's no reason to ever visit a forum again.

    I wish they had included a loot system more like D2s, but I realize I'm in a minority and the single player multiplayer game is now all the rage. Just like WOW, D3 is effectively a single player game that you happen to play with other people to whom you'll never speak. And for players that love community, that will severely limit the lifetime of the game.
     
  10. Wurmer

    Wurmer Diabloii.Net Member

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    I agree with you about the community here. I certainly miss the old days when these forums were busy with people asking opinions and help on such or such built. Nowdays, a post can stay at the top of the page for months without an answer or a comment. In Diablo II hay day, this would just about never happen. I find it very hard now to instigate a thread that would spark any sort of discussions.

    I am not sure this is Blizzard's fault though or at least not entirely. Things have change quite a bit in the last 10 years, I think people are getting information everywhere but on forums. Much easier to watch a YouTube video than to take the time to write something. Technologies are evolving and so are people's habits...
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2016
  11. Thyiad

    Thyiad Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian

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    @TheNix pretty much nailed it, and @Zarniwoop and @Wurmer had some good points too.

    Blizzard saw D3 as an insta-cash cow and I personally don't feel that they had any interest in anything other than making something they could shove out and acquire sales without really having any thought as to its longevity or consumer base. If they had thought a bit more clearly, they wouldn't have removed off-line play thereby penalizing anyone who has difficulty getting online (dodgy connections, limited connections, those deployed, those behind firewalls etc), nor would they have pushed out a badly thought-out Auction House. Real money auction house; oh that was NEVER going to be an issue *rolleyes*. It's a shame because the non-real money version could have been a great way to trade.

    D3 doesn't have the flexibility of D2, it doesn't have the longevity, it doesn't have the same breadth of playability because Blizzard didn't look at their existing player base of D2. They aimed at kids who want shiny and "more dots" and not considering people who have played the game for over 10 years and are still finding new builds to do. They considered the kiddies who want it all now, with one character and who grind to improve it. Altism is not something they understand. Hence the respecs ... "Too difficult to play at level x? Then change it to the latest cookie cutter, no need to re-do that nasty content."

    The idiocy of item changing every patch drove me nuts. I have limited time, limited patience and I have no intention of grinding to get whatever piece of "Elite-Uber-Ancient-Amazingly-Wonderful" Tal's Helm they've put out this week. So the ability to join a team is reduced because teams can be so gear-centric. It's the gaming equivalent of the bar and bouncer joke of "If your gear isn't a minimum of 8000 points, you're not coming in."

    If a game is so gear-centric, then the build can almost be secondary. I personally don't feel a huge difference between playing a barb and a wizard. (And it isn't just Blizzard and D3 who are guilty of this.) Tactics seems to be some type of candy and not a strategy of playing the game with a different character, working around their different playstyles, strengths and weaknesses. Yes, it's always been possible to build a tanky sorc or a min-vit barb and adjust your playstyle accordingly, but with D3's perma-fighting, it doesn't seem like the game thinks you're going to do that.

    The community changed for two reasons, I believe.

    One, moving away from the long-term min/maxing alters and to the single character main who grinds. That changed the community demographic. More "gimme now".

    Two, as Wurmer mentioned, the way people find information now has changed. It's more YouTube and Reddit than forums. (Which I find ironic as Reddit is basically Usenet of the 1990s.) Personally, I like the long written guides than I can read, digest and cross-reference against other information, but it appears that the majority prefer a quick 10 minute YT video or an insta-answer of Reddit. Short attention span is short.

    How many people here play D2? No clue. I'm pretty sure the SPF has a number of retiree's who come to the Bar and haven't touched the game itself in years. But the community is full of their friends and they keep in touch. Sometimes, something will get mentioned and a spark will fire and interest will be resumed. But I'm betting a good number just read and don't play. But as D3 doesn't seem to have that type of community cohesion, I don't see longevity from that.

    And in fairness, @In the name of Zod, Blizzard always did mess things up whenever they patched something. That's not new with D3. IIRC - and I may not - I'm pretty sure that's how we ended up with the eth armour bug (not the ATMA eth bug), Blizzard tried to fix something else and messed that up. :D

    D3 is pretty, but that's it. Ok there's excitement when I find a goblin but other than that ... no. I've been playing Grim Dawn (Steam sale go!) and that is a much better game than D3 in my eyes. More D2 with updated graphics. I see what could have been ... crafting, alts, great story, replayablity etc.

    I don't see D3 having a long life. Yeah, they can pump out expansions ala WoW but I'm not sure how much slap you can shove on a pig (to continue Nix's comment). I said I wouldn't buy D3 but I did. I wish I hadn't. The expansion didn't change much. Ok, adventure mode was a nice idea, but I did that in SP in D2 ... Blizzard basically put back what they messed up. Gee, thanks. Maybe they'll get decent sales out of one more expansion, but more than that ... can't see it.

    II hate to see the franchise and community suffer because of D3. If it had been "Kill Fantasy Monsters", the game would have been ... ok. But they aimed at a high target and missed which makes it seem so much worse. t's sad. They hosed a franchise, ruined a community and it could have been so much more.
     
  12. Tymbark

    Tymbark Diabloii.Net Member

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    So here I am, suddenly feeling an uncanny wave of nostalgia, logging into my ancient account, wondering why the heck forums that were THE place to go for all this glorious DII years now resemble the ashes of an empire struck by some malicious disease.

    I guess all of your answers somehow touch the bigger problem of modern gaming communities. Or maybe I become a pretentious, whiny old jerk... Or maybe it's just the time to refresh some good memories playing dii SP ;)
     
  13. Valeli

    Valeli Diabloii.Net Member

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    D3 really lost me. I wonder why this is though.

    Both D3 and D2 had "must use" items. You can use a lightning sorceress without infinity in D2, but issues abound. You can use skills that don't have sets dedicated to them in D3 as well, but you'll never get far in rifts or torment. I think maybe the torment/rift ladder thing is a bigger block than hell imunities? You could struggle away with you single-player offline passive amazon and have fun beating the game. To me there's no equal satisfaction in D3 from running around in non-set gear and beating Diablo or Maltheal. The actual game is just entirely trivialized to progressing on rifts, I think. And using sets is the only way to do that.

    Maybe that's what I find off putting about D3 at this point.

    I wouldn't go so far as to say this makes the game bad though. A lot of people clearly like racing on leader boards etc. It's not my thing at all, and I could care less who's in first, but that doesn't make it "bad design". I don't think it necessarily lowers replayability either, as the focus shifts to seasons where that race can be repeated forever.

    So to respond to the OP, I think D3 can have some decent life span, but that the life span is highly limited to/focused on future seasons and the people who care about that. I feel like many of those players happen to be the ones who wander on to the "next shiny thing" though, so while the potential to keep it going is there in reality it doesn't seem likely. Maybe if the game had some sort of community but.... I see very little. Like some people above have said, site like this have about as much life as some of D2's drowned corpses clung on to.

    I swear I don't get how Reddit became so popular. I don't see the advantage over a good forum at all (for stuff like this, at least). I don't get the obsession with live streamers and you tube guides either. To me, live streaming and you tube guide making screams out "pay attention to me" in a way that putting up a good text guide simply doesn't. But I think that's clearly showing my age as much as anything about the inherent value of these things. I just didn't grow up with that, and didn't adapt to it either. Reddit and (especially) Youtube aren't conducive to forming communities in the way that forums were though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
  14. Valeli

    Valeli Diabloii.Net Member

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    Sorry, didn't mean to double post. Was trying to edit in a small change and ended up quoting/replying to myself. Apologies.
     
  15. kestegs

    kestegs D3 Monk Moderator

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    Well said, @Valeli

    I find the "required" itemization very frustrating. I just came back after 2 years and have only been playing a DH, so maybe some classes are better. If I want to have a character that can do high content I have to use the same items in every slot. Depending on the set/build I might change 3 items at most besides the set itself. They made some really cool items, but most of them are unusable because they don't fit with my 6pc set. And that frustrates me to no end, because I love finding ways to put items and skills together.



    I do still really like the game, it could just be so much better.
     
  16. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    I haven't played D3 anymore for more than a year, basically for the reasons Valeli mentioned. I did rifts for a while, but I don't think I was able to beat anything in torment efficiently. Of course, I know you need to build up a stock of good items, but unlike in D2, I didn't have the motivation to do so.

    In order to achieve somethig during the course of a ladder season, you have to play the game absurdly intensely. That's the case in D2 as well, but in the past, many seasons were longer than half a year and we had a kind of trading which was fun for me, unlike the auction house which D3 had at first.
     
  17. bodry

    bodry Diabloii.Net Member

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    Uhmm, who said you can't play with funky items and skills? You can beat Master/Expert mode with whatever loot drops. Just dont expect to beat the game in Torment 10.
    Also it was way worse in Diablo 2 LOD, where you basically had obe OP build every character, and the others could maybe beat players1 hell. At least in D3, you have more T10 ready builds.
     
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  18. bodry

    bodry Diabloii.Net Member

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    Krischan: the ladder season is around 3 months right? So 12 weeks long, which means that if you play 2 hours a week, you are able to complete around T2, and get the two-thirds of the bonus class specific set.
    The game is enough casual imo.
     
  19. Valeli

    Valeli Diabloii.Net Member

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    That's sort of my point though. D3 seems so heavily designed on rifts that the actual game feels short and trivial. The entire story mode seems to be (or have become?) an afterthought. Sure I can beat it on hard or master with anything I feel like, but I don't feel like I've "done" anything. Conversely, if I beat D2 on hell with a daggerzon after a very grindy experience, I do feel like I've beaten something.

    As for the OP builds, my D2 experience was almost entirely offline, and I mostly kept it to p1 once I reached hell as a result. No argument that a lightning fury javazon is miles ahead of the above-mentioned daggerzon, but that's not my point. I just feel like D2 had a more tangible "end", where you could beat it with the daggerzon, get matriarched/patriarched, and be all "yeah, I did that" before moving on to one of a thousand other choices. I feel like D3 is missing this, despite technically also having a story mode with an end.

    This is, obviously, somewhat subjective. But that's how I feel about the two modes in the game. The story mode feels like it's become a complete afterthought, and adventure mode is a rift-race that basically requires set use to perform effectively. If you're not pushing for higher tiers of rifts, you're probably going to end up rapidly bored.
     
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  20. Pyrohemia

    Pyrohemia Diabloii.Net Member

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    I think that the gear system is fundamentally broken as all of the different effects combine multiplicatively. A fifth or higher order polynomial grows rather rapidly, so any difficulty setting has a very narrow sweet spot between impossible and a cake-walk. I don't even follow the game any more, but I think that we now have 1 million times power scaling between the start and current end game. D2 had a lot of modifiers, and quite the large power scaling after 1.10, but at least damage from skills was additive with the stats bonus and other bonuses. The more you grind the smaller the rewards should be: like getting to 99 in D2 - 5 more stat points and a skill point. Let people make lots of 90 - 95 characters rather than one 99. The item system should be the same - bonuses getting smaller and non-multiplicative rather than larger.

    The lack of support for alternate characters is also key. Given the grind to upgrade this, that, and the other, and the power scaling rewards from doing so, why would you ever make a second character from the same class? Why would you even play something other than your main unless you already play hours per day?
     
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